Brake Pads (Who is Running What?)

What is everyone running out there ?

I am an aggressive everyday driving who drives the freeway around Detroit around 75-85 mph on average with city driving mixed in. I have read up on Hawk and Stoptech. My friend with a 09 STI runs Stoptech...curious about others. Any 05 3.0R Sedans out there ?

Thanks

I run Porterfield R4-S on the LGT (and will be going that route on my Audi S4)

They feel leaps and bounds better than the Hawk HPSs I took off.... And FYI - Hawk is now onto the 5.0s and I have not heard that many great reviews on those....

I have the project MU NS400. Great all around pads : no noise, little dust, great in cold(no warmup needed), maybe not as agressive as the stoptech street perfo pads but braking power is there.

I had the stoptech but the dusted like crazy and needed to be driven hard otherwise the leave pads deposits (hated them)

Will buy the NS400 again. (OBXT with LGT brake setup)

I like Carbotech. I run the Bobcat (AX-6) on my Forester and my GT is currently running XP-8 but the squeal. I had better luck on the GT with XP-12. Carbotech's are known to be very easy on rotors, and my experience is just that.

http://www.ctbrakes.com/brake-compounds.asp

I have the project MU NS400. Great all around pads : no noise, little dust, great in cold(no warmup needed), maybe not as agressive as the stoptech street perfo pads but braking power is there.

I had the stoptech but the dusted like crazy and needed to be driven hard otherwise the leave pads deposits (hated them)

 

Will buy the NS400 again. (OBXT with LGT brake setup)

No experience with the NS400, just want to reiterate how freaking much the Stoptech street performance pads dust. I haven't noticed pad deposits though.

I've ran the Hawk HPS pads for several years, but decided to try Powerstop Z23 pads, with carbon fiber + ceramic material pads. After using them for a whole year now I like them a lot, they act very much like the Hawk HPS pads for less the cost. So, if cost is a factor, I would recommend the Powerstop Z23 pads. They cost around $45 for the front pads.

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/Hl0AAOSwHQ9WbWn7/s-l1600.jpg

You might have missed my recent post on the topic;

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/hawk-hps-vs-carbotech-bobcats-my-take-252329.html

I used to run HPS and was never happy with them. I have moved to Carbotech Bobcat. The LGT is my second vehicle with these and am 100% satisfied. Besides great low temp bite and overall grab, they dust very little and don't make any noise whatsoever.

-Rob

stoptech>hawk hps

good initial bite the hawks dont have and yet the stoptechs can take the heat of ~1200f

dust is a requirement for a good pad. everyone else complaining about dust doesnt understand this. their next step is to put on inferior pads.

i will be running stoptechs again.

also, for me, the hps made noises while the ST are quiet.

Just had Stoptech Streets with Centric rotors installed on mine. Super happy. Performance is just as good as the Hawks they replaced.

They have good stopping power too and less dust than the Stoptechs.

That's the first time I've heard that. Everyone I talked to told me Hawks produce far more dust than STs.

That's the first time I've heard that. Everyone I talked to told me Hawks produce far more dust than STs.

Everyone I know running Hawks say they make less dust. I can wash my wagon and within two days of driving it the Stoptechs have made enough dust that it looks like I did not clean the wheels. With my 3.0R running the Hawks it takes about a week for any noticeable dust on the wheels.

I've ran the Hawk HPS pads for several years, but decided to try Powerstop Z23 pads, with carbon fiber + ceramic material pads. After using them for a whole year now I like them a lot, they act very much like the Hawk HPS pads for less the cost. So, if cost is a factor, I would recommend the Powerstop Z23 pads. They cost around $45 for the front pads.

I will have to keep these in mind for next time I need pads.

Hawk HPS is a nice setup for street with a very linear feel. If you are used to doing all of your braking in the first 3mm of travel, you'll hate them. However, a bit of education on proper braking and you'll love them.

I've used most of the Hawk line on the wagon & miata. also tried Cobalt the miata. Finally went to Hawk Blacks for the miata as it fit more with my driving style (miata racing means not using brakes, however, sometimes you want to scrub a bit of speed).

All of Hawk brake pads on one chart - http://www.hawkperformance.com/compound-graph

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q286/aasearles/HawkPadChart.jpg

Carbotech doesn't have a graph - http://www.ctbrakes.com/faqs.asp#compounds2

http://www.42autosports.com/assets/images/CarbotechApplicationChart.PNG

Stoptech:

http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/MotionLabTuning/ProjectMUbrakepadchart_zps4f24453d.jpg

for track driving, I used Hawk DTC60 & DTC70 with centric cryo blanks. Pads & discs usually lasted 2 weekends. Until I went to race tires, then it was less. I regularly recorded 1600 degrees on the rotors at session end (1600 was the limit of my remote thermometer).

Driving a high-performance pad on the street will lead to greater wear on the disc, as the pad is designed to be in its operating range. If you are always in the low end of the range, you can expect braking to be horrible. If you are always at the upper end, you can expect fading. Ideally you would match the pad to your driving style. Not the driving style you do for 5 minutes when the road clears up, but the driving style you do 90% of the time.

OP mentioned driving in Detroit traffic. You'd want a pad that is on the lower end of the heat range so it works when you need it in a panic stop. My memories of Detroit traffic were 80-100mph followed by panic stops to avoid a deer or a pot hole.

A higher heat range pad would work better if you were braking hard from high speed, then going fast for a short period, and braking hard again. Its unusual to do that kind of heat-cyclying off a racetrack, tho, it is possible to fade the brakes if you are driving thru the neighborhoods late at night, preferably in on the same set of roads. Still, be wary of faster wear on the discs.

Hawk HPS is a nice setup for street with a very linear feel. If you are used to doing all of your braking in the first 3mm of travel, you'll hate them. However, a bit of education on proper braking and you'll love them.

 

I've used most of the Hawk line on the wagon & miata. also tried Cobalt the miata. Finally went to Hawk Blacks for the miata as it fit more with my driving style (miata racing means not using brakes, however, sometimes you want to scrub a bit of speed).

 

All of Hawk brake pads on one chart - http://www.hawkperformance.com/compound-graph

 

Carbotech doesn't have a graph - http://www.ctbrakes.com/faqs.asp#compounds2

http://www.42autosports.com/assets/images/CarbotechApplicationChart.PNG

 

 

Stoptech:

no matter how many times you wish it wasnt true...hawk hps are simply inferior to stoptech 309. the 309 temp range is ~60-1300 for a STREET pad.

cold bite is better and so is the heat range. hps were very well known for glazing yet i dont hear that about stoptechs.

nothing you say and no matter how many times you say it. the facts is 309>hps.

for the complainers about dust. you cant have it both ways. a grippy pad will dust more. just the way it is.

no matter how many times you wish it wasnt true...hawk hps are simply inferior to stoptech 309. the 309 temp range is ~60-1300 for a [Ideal for Autocross and Light Track Day Use ] pad.

 

cold bite is better and so is the heat range. hps were very well known for glazing yet i dont hear that about stoptechs.

 

nothing you say and no matter how many times you say it. the facts is 309>hps.

 

for the complainers about dust. you cant have it both ways. a grippy pad will dust more. just the way it is.

You know you deleted the stoptech chart, right?

Stoptech 309 is an autox/track pad. HPS is a street performance pad. No doubt, in the right conditions, the 309 is a better pad. However, the right conditions for the 309 are limited to high heat, rapid-high energy braking, repeatedly. Giving local traffic patterns and your driving style, you probably need that pad. A pad that works from 60-1300 isn't going to be awesome across that range. Its going to be awesome in the lower end of that range and allow for use at the higher end with lots of cooling in between.

OP is driving in an area where 75-80 is a common occurrence not a 3am special case. So a street pad is going to be more than enough. Now, if OP is flogging his car from street light to street light, then a 309 type pad is indicated.

You know you deleted the stoptech chart, right?

Stoptech 309 is an autox/track pad. HPS is a street performance pad. No doubt, in the right conditions, the 309 is a better pad. However, the right conditions for the 309 are limited to high heat, rapid-high energy braking, repeatedly. Giving local traffic patterns and your driving style, you probably need that pad. A pad that works from 60-1300 isn't going to be awesome across that range. Its going to be awesome in the lower end of that range and allow for use at the higher end with lots of cooling in between.

 

OP is driving in an area where 75-80 is a common occurrence not a 3am special case. So a street pad is going to be more than enough. Now, if OP is flogging his car from street light to street light, then a 309 type pad is indicated.

yeah. i hit delete. reread and not fully sure why but one can scroll up and see it all anyways.

the 309 is what the older ST pads were before they got 308 and 309 designations.

http://www.stoptech.com/products/stoptech-brake-pads

60f for cold has always felt better than the hps for me and had the ST stinking up before and had no fade.

yes, they do fit my style better. i need the colder bite as im not a heavy brake user. its nice having the bite all the time unlike my experience with the hps which was needing to warm them up. i prefer to let off the gas and coast to stop signs etc not spend time warming up brakes. once i know more about the 308 and its range i may change over to them.

either way. cold inital bite is better with the ST. how can that not be a desirable trait and yet have enough heat range to use them a bit more heavily? and you are right. when roads are free i do get a reason to slow down. the ST felt good either way. cold or hot.

once i got used to the cold bite of the ST its been nice and not needing to warm them up by stopping somewhat aggressively for no reason is a bonus.

i just can not endorse hps as a daily pad. i see no reason why they are superior to the 309.

i prefer to let off the gas and coast to stop signs etc not spend time warming up brakes.

 

either way. cold inital bite is better with the ST. how can that not be a desirable trait and yet have enough heat range to use them a bit more heavily?

 

i just can not endorse hps as a daily pad. i see no reason why they are superior to the 309.

deleted the other stuff.

So your driving style is to not use the brakes? In reality, that's the opposite of what you should be doing. A hard stop of short duration is better than a long slow stop. Its the long slow stop that heat soaks the pads and causes the most wear, as well as the glazing you complain about.

Properly setup and moving, the pads are already in their ideal temp range. However, driving autox pads on the street, Stoptech added an initial bite to make up for them not being in their ideal range most of the time.

For your driving style, the HPS will glaze over as will every other street pad.

Perhaps you should describe your braking style when providing such strong opinions?

If you ever want to learn a better way, the local Porsche club has a 1 day school that would provide you an alternative - https://www.motorsportreg.com/events/pca-pnwr-de-may-21-2016-pacific-raceways-northwest-316245

What is everyone running out there ?

 

I am an aggressive everyday driving who drives the freeway around Detroit around 75-85 mph on average with city driving mixed in. I have read up on Hawk and Stoptech. My friend with a 09 STI runs Stoptech...curious about others. Any 05 3.0R Sedans out there ?

 

 

 

Thanks

I think the only 3.0Rs that came with the LGT brake setup were the 08-09 3.0R Limited sedans. In other words, your brake rotors, calipers, and pads are a little on the wimpy side and shared with the 2.5i. In all fairness, better pads are probably all you need, but you can always upgrade to the LGT caliper+rotor+bracket setup very cost effectively. They require 17" wheels, though.

As far as pads, I haven't found one I love yet. They all feel different, behave different (i.e. initial bite), dust different. However, all of them will brake hard enough to lock up your wheels, so the other factors come down to personal preference for street driving.