opinion on strut tower tie bars

whats the general opinion on using these on our cars?

i know that they make a huge difference in MK1 vw cars cause of the weak structure they came with stock.

 

In conjunction with some tein S springs, will this tighten up the car a bit?

 

alex

They lighten your wallet, that helps you handle better

Yeah, I tend to agree that they're probably not all that useful except for looks.

 

The back...that's a lost cause. The mounting points for the struts are basically level with the trunk floor. I can't imagine a bar making much of any difference. The front I suppose might make some difference...if you can quantify it:p

i would think it would help if it was braced to the firewall as well as the strut tower, but honestly even that wouldnt be a noticable difference

I got a cheap Ebay FSTB...and I happen to think it made a NOTICEABLE difference in keeping the car steady. I'm VERY HAPPY with the bar. BIG difference.

I got a cheap Ebay FSTB...and I happen to think it made a NOTICEABLE difference in keeping the car steady. I'm VERY HAPPY with the bar. BIG difference.

"Inverted struts increase bending resistance for quicker and more consistent performance under hard cornering. This variation on the MacPherson-type strut essentially functions like a conventional shock absorber set upside-down and covered by another tube. The strength of the outer steel tube, rather than the internal piston rod, bears the brunt of bending forces acting upon the strut under cornering. The piston rod rides in the lower portion of the strut tube (rather than the upper section), and the secondary upper tube mounts to the inner fender where the piston would mount in a conventional strut. This second tube adds bending strength to the strut. The larger strut tube allows a larger piston area, and there is a bump stop located at the bottom of the main tube."

 

 

http://www.subaru-global.com/news2003n000417.html

"Inverted struts increase bending resistance for quicker and more consistent performance under hard cornering. This variation on the MacPherson-type strut essentially functions like a conventional shock absorber set upside-down and covered by another tube. The strength of the outer steel tube, rather than the internal piston rod, bears the brunt of bending forces acting upon the strut under cornering. The piston rod rides in the lower portion of the strut tube (rather than the upper section), and the secondary upper tube mounts to the inner fender where the piston would mount in a conventional strut. This second tube adds bending strength to the strut. The larger strut tube allows a larger piston area, and there is a bump stop located at the bottom of the main tube."

 

 

http://www.subaru-global.com/news2003n000417.html

 

Good FYI or whatever.

 

I like the FSTB on my Car - it made a noticeable difference; the whole front of the car feels better while cornering.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "tighten."

 

If you want the car to rotate more readily or to reduce your auto-x times, then no, the strut bars won't do that.

If you're looking for more responsiveness and/or feel, it may have "some" benefit.

 

 

 

First and foremost, I would sink your money into a set of camber bolts and a nice performance alignment (with as much negative camber you can get). That WILL be noticeable right away and will affect all aspects of handling. The car will "feel" and perform better. Staying with neutral camber or getting an alignment at a shop that just 0s out your toe, which is what most do, won't cut it. You have to make sure that the shop will actually do custom specs and will get under the car to adjust the camber bolts (most techs won't do this).

 

Sways are also usually also very noticeable upgrades.

Strut towers should be last on your list.

...of course a cheap ebay strut tower brace made a very noticeable difference on my particular car. Last on my list is the camber bolt, actually.

how many of you saying these are worthless and don't do anything have actually tried running one on your car?

how many of you saying these are worthless and don't do anything have actually tried running one on your car?

 

i had a set of Cusco's F/R could not tell any difference ended up selling them. maybe if you tracked your car they might help. bang for the buck? buy better rubber/brakes first you can always add them later.

...of course a cheap ebay strut tower brace made a very noticeable difference on my particular car. Last on my list is the camber bolt, actually.

 

if you don't have any particular goal, then the order in which you mod isnt that important.

 

no reason why you can't do your alignment last and your strut bar first.

I'm not saying that strut braces don't work.

I have every conceivable brace on my STI, even the ones that others say don't do a damn thing.

 

But some are more noticeable than others. But in the end if you do them all it doesnt matter about order.

 

Do the camber bolts and have it aligned and post a review versus the strut braces. Make sure that you're tech gets at least -2 degrees out of them.

I did not run one for YEARS on my racecar just because of the fact that I would refuse to give into the hype But then a vendor gave me one for free and it weighed 4 lbs, so I figured FINE!

 

They might add a slight benefit, but as mentioned above, there are many other things I would do first. And if the bar is hinged, forget about it.

Speaking from experience on other cars, I've found that lower front tie bars, that brace the left-right suspension components have far more noticeable effect on feel than upper bars do.

For a cheap improvement in the car's front-end behaviour, investing in even a cheap ebay strut tower brace is a good idea. The benefits are every bit as noticeable as having good tires, or a short-shifter.

the best design for the f one would be one tat attached to the strut towers and to the fire wall. since none of that design are available for the lgt AFAIK, its not worth spending money on. That being said, the sti one came on my car from the factory so i have one, but im sure i helps very little if at all.

Except on my car it made a very very noticeable difference. Very well worth the $30? or whatever I spent. Easily. Perhaps my car was 'worse' than you others' cars in that department and the FSTB brought it back up to speed. No idea. I know i'd never take it off now. I'd never go back to bar-less.

 

:beers:

For a cheap improvement in the car's front-end behaviour, investing in even a cheap ebay strut tower brace is a good idea. The benefits are every bit as noticeable as having good tires, or a short-shifter.

Probably has as much effect as a CAI.

Except on my car it made a very very noticeable difference. Very well worth the $30? or whatever I spent. Easily. Perhaps my car was 'worse' than you others' cars in that department and the FSTB brought it back up to speed. No idea. I know i'd never take it off now. I'd never go back to bar-less.

 

:beers:

 

 

Considering that Ebay ones are now cheap, I agree with you on the price point.

 

Still, install your camber bolts and get an alignment and you'll see that there are bigger gains elsewhere.

I do plan to get a strut brace in the end as well

Considering that Ebay ones are now cheap, I agree with you on the price point.

 

Still, install your camber bolts and get an alignment and you'll see that there are bigger gains elsewhere.

 

Since I don't expect the LGT to be a track car, I'll probably do nothing with the suspension, except sway bars. Then - just drive it.

 

I do plan to get a strut brace in the end as well

 

OUCH! No lube?

 

Again - everyone's mileage may vary, but the $30? brace I have on my car made a VERY noticeable difference. I didn't have to try and 'think' I felt a benefit. I'd encourage everyone with a few bux to try it. Drive for a week or two with the bar on, then remove it. Let that be the judge.

 

:beers: to ya!

I have one...

 

I have tracked the car w/ and w/o it...

 

On the LGT where the strut towers are close to the firewall, and all of them are very low mileage, it makes NO DIFFERENCE. On cars where there is more separation, it helps. It can also help if your car is older so the frame bends more due to fatigue...

 

I also had someone drive my car back to back with it on and off, didn't tell them what I did, and asked them if they noticed a change. (I hinted it was suspension related and they are an Auto-X person)

 

They said it felt more controlled and stiffer when the bar was off

 

 

I also had someone drive my car back to back with it on and off, didn't tell them what I did, and asked them if they noticed a change. (I hinted it was suspension related and they are an Auto-X person)

 

They said it felt more controlled and stiffer when the bar was off

 

Anyone who says differently is feeling the effects of their wallet being lighter

I agree with Whitetiger that the best design for the front one would go from the strut towers and attach to the firewall. If you take a look at some rally cars thats the way its set up. I think as the chassis gets older it should make a more noticable difference, but not 100% sure about it.

I have one...

 

I have tracked the car w/ and w/o it...

 

On the LGT where the strut towers are close to the firewall, and all of them are very low mileage, it makes NO DIFFERENCE. On cars where there is more separation, it helps. It can also help if your car is older so the frame bends more due to fatigue...

 

What's 'older'? The bar made a very noticeable difference on my 2006 w/40k miles. Is that 'older'?

 

 

I also had someone drive my car back to back with it on and off, didn't tell them what I did, and asked them if they noticed a change. (I hinted it was suspension related and they are an Auto-X person)

 

Maybe that person isn't sensitive enough to how a car 'feels' to describe or notice a difference?

 

They said it felt more controlled and stiffer when the bar was off

 

That lends to my theory above

 

I also had someone drive my car back to back with it on and off, didn't tell them what I did, and asked them if they noticed a change. (I hinted it was suspension related and they are an Auto-X person)

 

They said it felt more controlled and stiffer when the bar was off

 

Anyone who says differently is feeling the effects of their wallet being lighter

 

I love your generalizations. It's hilarious. Especially that last point. Instead of presenting ANY data to support your claim you present what I'm presenting - anecdotal evidence, but you take it a step further with a borderline ad hominem jab at folks who HAVE the ability to notice the way a car behaves, with finer detail than you or your pals. How nice for you.

 

It's easy to be like you.

 

"I had a guy who races F1 drive my car with the FSTB on, then off - I wouldn't tell him or let him see me removing it -I would just ask him randomly drive the car back to back to back to back on Talledega, at Le Mans, and Bremerton Raceway. He said with the FSTB on, while spec.B was engaged he had an orgasm at every corner apex (thank GOD for leather seats!). With the bar on and spec.B disengaged it was simply "tighter - more controlled up front." It seems the car's front was more predictable and steady. With the bar off and spec.B off he wanted to not only drive himself over a cliff, but come back as a ghost and kick my Dad's ass - just for having me."

 

(shrug)

I am sorry that this is hurting you soo much

 

Have someone do a blind test with it off and on. Do one yourself with someone else modifying it. I gave you two data points, both by folks that drive cars hard enough to notice VERY subtle differences in feel. Each point is at least as valid as your single data point...

 

The LGT's Strut towers are more integrated to the firewall than any previous Subaru

It makes a difference but probably not a huge difference because the shock towers are so close to the fire wall. It does sharpen up the steering feel when pushing the car hard but I don't neccearily think it gives you more grip.

 

I think a mod like this will help you chassis in the long run. Less likely of a chance for distortion to occur. Also, IMO it would be a good idea to match with lower bracing.