FNG - Newb Questions: Anyone w/ LGT coming from sports car?

Hello! I've got a couple 'should I buy' questions - I've read dozens of threads asking the same question but I think mine are a little different.

Right now I drive (well, I WOULD be driving, cept it's in the shop...again) a 2004 RX8 on very sticky tires and coil-overs. My style of car is light-weight and sharp handling (had a NA Miata prior).

I gave serious consideration to the LGT prior to buying my RX8 - the RX8 won on handling and looks. The problem is, in the 2.5 years I've owned my RX8, I've had it in the shop a disproportionate number of times compared to what one would likely consider 'normal'. At 32000 miles i'm on my 2nd engine, 3rd Cat (which is slowly failing), 3rd set of plugs, 2nd starter, 2nd set of coils, and right now it's been in the shop for the past 10 days awaiting a new transmission.

Now, when my RX8 is running well, It's VERY fun. In fact, I've had a couple encounters with LGTs since owning the car.

I was following a LGT and coming up to a hard 10mph-ish 90 degree left turn. Prior, I'd see the guy looking in his mirror at me and getting on it hard from stop signs. As we approach the corner, going about 35 or so, I think "he's never gonna make it."

He understeers OUT of the corner and onto the shoulder, whereas my (then stock) RX8 took it so sharply, I could have easily passed him on the inside.

Then again a few months ago - LGT with LOUD BOV and stuff. Looked pretty pimped out. He was following me revving and what-not. He tried following me through a roundabout and ended up going from 2 Car lengths behind me at the start, to no fewer than 10 or 15 at the exit.

BOTH times my decision to buy the rx8 was re-enforced. Even if they simply can't drive, I'm no Schumi, either.

Okay - Now, this isn't a bash-the-LGT thread - I was merely giving examples.

Okay - so my RX8 breaks a lot. I've got 20K more miles left on the warranty and frankly, I'm scared to death to keep it. Thus - this thread. I'm considering trading the car on a used LGT. "Why?" would be a logical question given what you've just read.

This past week I've been in a 2.5L Altima. A sedan. A pedestrian sedan. However - I've really enjoyed traveling with the family. We've put about 500 miles on the car this weekend on a couple jaunts around the state and it's MUCH better to drive than my wife's F150 SuperCrew 4x4, and MUCH more room than if we'd have taken my RX8. I can't begin to explain my JOY at seeing more than 20MPG!!! This car got 30!! on our trip. Wow. In the 500 miles I put on the Alty, it used about $50 worth of gas. (buying 87 octane was nice.)

My RX8, which averages 17.5mpg, would have used about $95 - her truck would have consumed about $115 to travel that distance.

Wait a minute - what's a guy who claims to like sports cars doing bitching about fuel economy? If you wanna play you gotta pay, right??

I'll try to tie it all together like this:

There HAS to be a car or cars out there which can perform as well/nearly as well as my RX8, and STILL get reasonable fuel economy. My wife and two kids enjoy traveling in the sedan, as compared to my RX8 - where everyone but ME is having fun.

When I read through this forum, and see some LGT guys getting low-mid 20mpg on the freeways and STILL having a very comfortable-looking car, which has at least as much power to the ground as my RX8 (note similar mid-90mph trap speeds), AND has more room and probably Better reliability - well, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to start thinking about picking up such a car.

SO ----

I suppose I'm asking if any sports car guys have went to an LGT and are still satisfied. I'm talking Miata/S2000/Rx8/Rx7/Boxster/z4 - etc., folk. Are there any previous owners of those types of cars who have made their LGT handle close-to as well as those?

Truth-in-lending - I've never driven a LGT; that'll happen after my RX8 is back w/ the new transmission.

Thanks for indulging me.

- Darin

You would think with only 3 moving parts the rotary engine would be very reliable

Welcome and good luck.

Plain and simple, you will hate the handling in the LGT. As you have implied it's not a sports car and it’s not mean to be one. I came over from the Celica GT-S, and I hated the handling of LGT when I first got it. The Celi is not in the same league as the sports cars you listed but a pretty good handling car in its own right. I also have a twin turbo Z32 as a track car with coilovers and other aftermarket suspension bits. It’s on the other end of the spectrum, but there is no way I would want to live with the Z on day to day basis. As the result I came to appreciate the LGT for what it is. In stock form it’s an entry level luxury sports sedan and with coilovers and other bits you certainly could make it handle as well as your RX-8. With that said, I think you should look into STI and Evo too. Those 2 are much more on the sports side of things in stock form but you do give up some amenities of LGT.

BTW, I used to have a FC RX-7 and I gave up on the RX after the second apex seal went.

Plain and simple, you will hate the handling in the LGT. As you have implied it's not a sports car and it’s not mean to be one. I came over from the Celica GT-S, and I hated the handling of LGT when I first got it. The Celi is not in the same league as the sports cars you listed but a pretty good handling car in its own right. I also have a twin turbo Z32 as a track car with coilovers and other aftermarket suspension bits. It’s on the other end of the spectrum, but there is no way I would want to live with the Z on day to day basis. As the result I came to appreciate the LGT for what it is. In stock form it’s an entry level luxury sports sedan and with coilovers and other bits you certainly could make it handle as well as your RX-8. With that said, I think you should look into STI and Evo too. Those 2 are much more on the sports side of things in stock form but you do give up some amenities of LGT.

 

BTW, I used to have a FC RX-7 and I gave up on the RX after the second apex seal went.

Thanks much for the feedback - One important fact i forgot: I was shopping for S4s and 996 911s before the week in the Rental. I got to thinking - For LESS than either German cars, I could find a LGT and a mid-90s Miata for turbo/fun/track events.

The idea is - Just get a good, comfy reasonably-fun daily driver with decent mod potential, for me to haul the family up to the mountains. And a "It's Daddy's Alone Time" Car when I want to hang the tail-end out.

The cat that ended up on the curb was overdriving an underprepared car.

The cat with the BOV was either a moron or not making an effort to keep up. My vote would be for the former.

With a bit of work these things will take a corner flat and with some tenacity. It will never feel like your RX8 or your miata, though. These cars are a totally different ballgame. They're higher power and MUCH heavier, which is a completely different driving experience. I absolutely love it. The chassis is very communicative, the car can be set up to be totally neutral, the AWD is empowering, and the power to the ground is exhilarating. Find a dealer that'll let you take one overnight. Fling it around some on/off ramps with the understanding that with as little as $1500 you can dramatically improve the handling and power output.

What are your plans for the car? Any track time? Quarter mile?

These cars aren't nearly as trackable from the showroom as your RX8 is (one of their strong points). If that's what you're looking for, you want an sti or evo.

--e (coming from S2k, race-prepped '99 sport package miata, Z3 to WRX & LGT)

edit 'cuz you snuck your post in:

The idea is - Just get a good, comfy reasonably-fun daily driver with decent mod potential, for me to haul the family up to the mountains. And a "It's Daddy's Alone Time" Car when I want to hang the tail-end out.

whoahkay, then you don't want a sti or evo. The LGT might actually be what you're looking for, and they're very receptive to mods. Have you driven a 330Ci? What are your feelings on American muscle... wait nevermind. You want reliability.

How about the G35? IS300s can be had for great prices and with the LSD they're great fun.

The cat that ended up on the curb was overdriving an underprepared car.

The cat with the BOV was either a moron or not making an effort to keep up. My vote would be for the former.

 

With a bit of work these things will take a corner flat and with some tenacity. It will never feel like your RX8 or your miata, though. These cars are a totally different ballgame. They're higher power and MUCH heavier, which is a completely different driving experience. I absolutely love it. The chassis is very communicative, the car can be set up to be totally neutral, the AWD is empowering, and the power to the ground is exhilarating. Find a dealer that'll let you take one overnight. Fling it around some on/off ramps with the understanding that with as little as $1500 you can dramatically improve the handling and power output.

 

What are your plans for the car? Any track time? Quarter mile?

 

These cars aren't nearly as trackable from the showroom as your RX8 is (one of their strong points). If that's what you're looking for, you want an sti or evo.

 

--e (coming from S2k, race-prepped '99 sport package miata, Z3 to WRX & LGT)

Excellent info - yours is a perfect perspective for what I was asking. As stated above, the RX8 wouldn't be replaced by the LGT - only succeeded. The RX8 replacement would be the FM2 NB Miata i'd buy later.

For LESS than either German cars, I could find a LGT and a mid-90s Miata for turbo/fun/track events.

Smart thinking. Its virtually impossible to find a car that is everything that you want.

This time of year I mostly drive a 2,500 lb Alfa Romeo Spider. Light, tossable, drop top, lots of fun. Not very useful when the family needs to take a trip together or in the snow .

Here's my anecdotal take on LGT handling. Fundamentally its pretty good. Adding stickier tires, thicker sway bars and springs, for me, has made the car the perfect balance between tight handling and a comfortable daily driver.

I've had the LGT almost 2 years and have no regrets. If I drive either car for a long period of time I start missing the other one, that's a good indicator that I have 2 cars that both really work for me.

John

Thanks, Paradiso and --e. I had replied to --e, but the reply never took.

Anywho - Excellent perspectives; that's exactly what I'm looking for.

I'm greatly leaning towards a 'good' car (the LGT) and a 'fun' car (the FM2 Miata) - although they'd be spaced a year or so apart. The idea of a nice near-luxury sedan WITH balls (and decent handling) and all-weather capability is enticing.

Comparing my car with an M3 (2004), which I really wanted, but doesn't fit my winter wants, this is my conclusion:

The LGT is a good platform, fairly stiff, and good suspension geometry. It doesn't weigh too much, especially if you have a non-limited 05 sedan MT, but doesn't quite have 50/50 weight distribution that would be ideal. That being said the bits bolted to it are mediocre.

To get close to an M3's handling (and yes, you can get very very close) you need to stiffen the suspension mounting points a bit, get better sways, and spend a fair bit of money on good coil-overs. Goes w/o saying that rubber needs replacing. Brakes also need some addressing. For the ultimate some AP racing brakes that also reduce unsprung weight do a stellar job, but are pricey.

Given the same power I would still rather dive an M3 on perfect pavement, but believe me they are very close. On wet pavement, my LGT will smoke it.

An STI is a good starting point, but the rear suspension is strut based and does not have the same potential as a LGT, better "bits" bolted to it, but geometry is geometry, better physics FTW!

The new STI should rock though, as it should weigh a little less then the LGT and have the same rear suspension. I suppose a new rex would also be good, but then you would have to start upgrading all the "bits" to get where you want.

A little different perspective... My last playtime car was an early Porsche 944 which was that perfect 50/50 balance (After 7 mustangs). It cornered like it was on rails and stayed flat. The first thing I noticed in the LGT was that it had a some serious squat front to back when accelerating and it rolls/banks in the turns like an old 70's full size Ford LTD with the stock suspension.

That being said. It sounds like you know how to handle a car and adapt. It will take a little getting used to, but you should be able to learn it's limits and compensate occordingly until you get it built to your desired specs. With decent tires even the stock suspension can be quite fun.

After you master the SLIDEWAYS motion while sliding in the corners and can predict when the tires will break loose and how the AWD will react; it will grow on you. You can still get the car to go in the direction you want and maintain control even when the ass end is 45 degrees out. I've had mine for about 2.5 years and have never spun out, done any curb shots or had to use the shoulder in the turns. You have to yank the wheel a bit in short, tight turn, but it will track none the less. It's pretty light, nimble and responsive, but not a sports coupe by any means.

It's all about the driver.