oil pan leaking

Need some advice. I swapped out my motor last fall and pulled the pan on the new motor to install a killer b oil pickup. Kinda wish I never did that, since then I have had nothing but issues with my pan leaking. First I used permatex which didn't work. Then I bought a cork gasket that a reputable shop recommended and sprayed it down with permatex spray gasket as the shop recommended and it was fine for over 1000 miles. Now its leaking again and I'm at my wits end. I have have jacked the motor up three times to check and tighten the bolts to no avail. Its a pretty small leak leaves a tiny spot on my garage floor when I park it. My main question, is there a tourqe spec for tightening the bolts. I was very careful not to overtighten. But I'm so freaked out about warping the pan I've been going easy on tightenening it. I was told it doesn't take much with the cork gasket. Don't remember the spec but it was so little that I would of needed a inch pound tourqe wrench that costs way to much. I used one that i had set to less then 7 foot pounds and never went over that. Its a bitch to get to the back bolts since I have to lift the motor to get to them and I'm tired of doing this. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks

You need to use Ultra Grey, that works the best. You said you used Permatex-was that the Ultra Grey or another one? The spec is 3.5 ft pds, but that basically pointless as OEM used a sealant, so its just tight. I also purchased the cork but after seeing it and having experience with cork I never use it anymore, either rubber with crush rings (does not seem to be available for LGT) or use Ultra Grey. Everything just needs to be real clean, and put a nice bead on pan, slightly tighten down till starts to roll out. Let still for 30 minutes and then go back and tighten down completely. Resist the urge to fill with oil, rather let it cure over night and fill and run the next day. Works every time

M6x1.25x30mm studs, matching zinc washers and hex nuts. Can be had at Fastenal for >$1 per 100. Need about 25 to do pan, baffle, and pickup. Use UltraBlack on the lip of the pan. Bead should be even, about 1/2-3/4" thick; put on pan, loosely torque down, let sit/cure for 24hrs in proper temperature range. (read tube) THEN use a 1/4dr socket to tighten down the nuts to spec.

That's the weird thing I used permatex sealant the first time and it leaked pretty good(never had issues before with my other motors). The shop swore by the cork gasket. Seemed like it would work fine being so thick. Almost 1/4" thick. Problem is finding a tourqe wrench that will go that low. Most are very expensive. Hard to justify cost for a one time use. I used a spray on gasket made by permatex to coat the cork gasket as the shop recommended. Seemed great for awhile. I'm wondering if the cork split somehow and that why its leaking.

 

I saw your post about the studs Tris. Is there any reason for going that route rather then using the OEM 10mm bolts?

 

I appreciate the response guys.

A stud will almost always have superior clamping force over a bolt, in applications where it's feasible. In this case, a stud is not only appropriate, but, better than a bolt. Will especially help with alignment of the pan while its got goop on it.

 

I've been meaning to update the ERSL extras with the Fastenal PNs, just haven't made the time - I'll get on that.

Learned the hard way a long time ago that you don't put silicone or anything else on a cork gasket other than to hold it in place in a couple spots if needed or at junctions with another gasket. When you add anything to the mating surface of the cork and sealing surface, it acts like a lubricant and the gasket wants to slide as you tighten the screws which results in your not feeling resistance as you tighten and you end up over tightening and splitting the gasket.

Use the cork gasket dry, with nothing on it and a small 1/4 ratchet to tighten just a bit past the point of feeling resistance.

Do not use the cork gasket.

 

If you'll notice, your car didn't come with one. In fact, the OEM gasket kit does not include an oil pan gasket. This isn't due to cheap automotive production techniques, or saving the goddamn cork trees, it's because cork is inferior to RTV when it comes to sealing properly.

 

Use the studs in the size, pitch, and length I suggested, and run a solid bead of UltraBlack and there should be no issues, provided you have cleaned all the surfaces dilligently and allow it to cure for 24 hours at room temp BEFORE you add oil.

I agree that RTV would seal better and last longer than cork, but 1/2 to 3/4 inch thick bead seems excessive. I would suggest 1/4 inch bead at most.

 

Bolts should work fine for an oil pan. You don't need to torque them much to keep the pan in place. You can't torque those bolts much anyway or they'll snap. A few studs to help align the pan is not a bad idea though if you do use the RTV method. The last thing you want is to have to move the pan around after the RTV makes contact with the block. You'll get RTV everywhere, maybe even in the pan.

Remember to let the RTV tack up for 20-30 minutes before tightening the bolts. Even give it a few minutes to tack before you install the pan.

M6x1.25x30mm studs, matching zinc washers and hex nuts. Can be had at Fastenal for >$1 per 100. Need about 25 to do pan, baffle, and pickup.

 

Man I wish I would have seen this one when I did my killer b pickup. Love it!

At this point I'm thinking the cork gasket is probably shot. So ill give the rtv a shot again. Guess I'm pulling the damn pan again this weekend. Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll post on Monday if it fixes the leak or not.

ERSL has been updated with Fastenal PNs for studs and nuts.

Bumping an old thread here, as I plan on doing this next oil change. While I dont necessarily see the need for studs on every single hole (yes I understand the differences between studs and screws when it comes to torquing things...i'm one of those pesky mechanical engineers, designing all the shit everyone complains about), I know how difficult it can be to align 2 things with RTV on them and would like to have the option to have studs.

 

I have no clue what this ERSL is, can anyone provide said part numbers for these studs?

Not sure if ESRL exists anymore after his departure from the country club. Sounds like it was a very cool bank of useful stuff.

 

I have no clue what this ERSL is, can anyone provide said part numbers for these studs?

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/subaru-oem-parts-catalog-online-exploded-views-opposed-forces-130411.html

 

look in there.

 

http://people.csail.mit.edu/ilh/vacation/

 

That may help too.

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/subaru-oem-parts-catalog-online-exploded-views-opposed-forces-130411.html

 

look in there.

 

http://people.csail.mit.edu/ilh/vacation/

 

That may help too.

Thanks Max capacity. I've come across those resources in my travels before, however I'm not sure that's what I need this time around.

 

I may have been unclear but I am looking for the Fastenal part number that people were referencing when buying the studs. As far as I know, there is no OEM part for the studs as the factory uses screws. I searched in my typical places for fasteners and came up blank for M6x1.25x30 studs. I can make them, but I'd rather not.

FWIW, I used new 6mm bolts I got out of the parts bin. I gave them to the machine shop, they assembled my ej257 to a long block. They gave me back the old bolts, in fact I saw them the other day cleaning out my nut and bolt bucket.

 

Over 60,000 miles, no oil leaks. Your not over thinking this are you ?

No, I don't believe so. Given you had your ej257 in a machine shop leads me to believe that the engine was out of the car, thus clearing up most if the difficulty in aligning the oil pan without disturbing the goop. From what I can see, it's a little short of a puzzle, removing and replacing the oil pan with the engine in the car. I want to have studs to aim for when replacing the oil pan.

 

I do not intend to get any more life out of the repair when incorporating the 3-4 studs I'll use as alignment guide.

 

Perhaps the utility of using a few studs on this application can be demonstrated by comparing it to the recommendation of swapping studs and bolts when attaching the turbo to the downpipe.

 

Other people have had success so I'd like to at least give myself the option and pick up some studs before I do this job.

 

So does anyone have a source for the studs others have previously used in this oil pan job?

I would think any auto parts store or local hardware store would have them. They are common. Even Lowes or HD will have them.

 

I would think you only two studs near the rear. I know its tricky to get the front of the pan up under and around the oil pump pick up. I'm thinking once that is done lifting the rear of the pan onto a couple studs would be easy.

 

I did remove the oil pan once I had the engine on the stand, I recall even that being difficult.

If they are M6x1, then it's a common stud. The M6x1.25 that's previously cited in this thread is vastly less common. Too bad it's going to rain for the next 4 days over here, otherwise I'd pull one out to see what we're actually dealing with. I'll see if the parts diagram entry and cross reference for the oil pan give up any clues when I get home.

So it actually wasnt raining when I got home and I pulled one of the screws out. Twas an M6x1 and it was ~13mm long and had a split lock washer on it. So the previous suggestions of getting M6x1.25 studs seem to be erroneous. Also 30mm long studs seem excessive at that point. An extra 17mm to thread a nut onto? Too much.