BrianEarlSpilner Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Well I am sure this won’t have a good outcome based on past experience with this Legacy. Yesterday I started my car before leaving for work and went back into the house to grab my coffee. When I get back outside it’s not running. This seems very odd to me because it hasn’t exhibited any odd symptoms or idle issues since the rebuild. I tried to start it and it sounds very labored almost like a dead battery but it doesn’t fire at all. It was only about 9 degrees out so not crazy cold and I am thinking maybe the battery or alternator is shot. So today I tried to jump it and swapped the battery but to no avail. Still the same labored cranking but occasionally the starter would just whir fast like it was spinning without being engaged on the flywheel. So that made me think maybe there’s something with the starter? But that doesn’t explain why it quit running to begin with so… I decided to check behind the driver’s side timing cover and see if anything screams dead Subaru and lo and behold there seems to be some rubber shavings. Also the back of the timing belt seems to have a glazed strip down the center which did not look anything like the belt it replaced. It should be noted that when I tried to start it back up it never made any metal on metal noise, but at the same time if anything happened to the timing system it’s most likely FUBAR. My bets are on some issue with an idler, but I won’t be able to dig any deeper for a day or two. This all happens a day after I am bragging up how much I love this car in the winter to my wife. If this ends up being catastrophic, I don’t see how she’s gonna let me keep it with the string of luck I’ve had. Only time will tell. If anyone has any thoughts on other possibilities or ideas please feel free to weigh in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holla Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 That sure is a bummer, hope you get it figured out without too much drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvsubaru Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Pull the starter off and take it to a place like autozone and have it tested. An alternator issue wouldn't keep the car from starting. Did the timing marks look right on that drivers side inspection cover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 If it's a 5mt, there are two timing belt guides that need to have the proper clearance or they will hit the belt on the rear top edge, I think its a .020" gap. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianEarlSpilner Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Well I have no idea how it happened but it looks like the upper drivers side cam gear is off. The mark is at like 10 o'clock when it should be at 12. All the other gears are fine. All the timing marks on the belt are worn off. I am hoping this is a rectifiable situation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianEarlSpilner Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Well I have them locked in with the company 23 cam locking tool. Now I want to put it back together to see if it runs but what's stopping it from happening again? Maybe time to order a new belt and tensioner (even though these are under a year old) just to be on the safe side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaasaiWarrior Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 At least the car was at idle when it died, not at 4000+ rpms! 08 Spec B, insta: @08_spec_b, 10 SH Forester insta: @shfozzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 If it's a 5mt, there are two timing belt guides that need to have the proper clearance or they will hit the belt on the rear top edge, I think its a .020" gap. ^This. And you may also have a guide above the crank pulley that may have been rubbing on the belt. If these guides have been rubbing on the belt, then your belt may have skipped a few teeth. This has happened to me. Belt skipped 3.5 teeth on the driver side. The FSM says up to 3 teeth is OK. After that, you may have bent valves. Fix timing and probably do a leak down test. And do make sure the clearance between the timing belt guides (all three) is within specs. If not, it will happen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travrach Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 OP You said the belt is a year old, how many miles have you put on it? And what type of belt did you use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianEarlSpilner Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 OP You said the belt is a year old, how many miles have you put on it? And what type of belt did you use? It was a Gates belt with under 5000 miles on it but the culprit appears to be the belt guide which was left too close. You can see the nice burn mark there. Explains the glazing on the belt. I can say that it was at least 3 teeth off, which is not good. The only thing left to do is put it back together and see if it bent anything. I just wish this didn't happen in my driveway in the middle of winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I know how you feel man . Sorry to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianEarlSpilner Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 IT LIVES!!!! Well sorta. I fired it up today w/o the accessory belts attached and moved it into my heated garage for final reassembly. No crazy misfire CEL and it sounded pretty normal. I know I should get a comp/leakdown done but at least it started right up and moved around without any strange clangings. For now I need to warm up and get the feeling back in my fingers and toes. Laying down on snow covered concrete under a car in 9 degree temps isn't my idea of a good time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianEarlSpilner Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 Update- I have it all put together and fingers crossed... Started right up and idled just fine, but then I see the oil pressure light is on! So all is not well and this looks to be the end of that engine unless the pickup tube miraculously cracked at precisely the same time as the timing belt skip. Doubtful. Now the debate begins. I don't think a new shortblock will quite cover me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Oh man. Did the light flicker or stayed right on? And for how long?cause you know how this sensor works right? If it's on, u have less than 2 psi of oil pressure I think which means none . That really sucks man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianEarlSpilner Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 I've come to grips with timing failure=toasted engine. Could someone help shed some light tho? Why would I lose oil pressure after that event? I can assume bent valves should have loss of compression and misfire city. Low oil pressure should sound all clickety-clack right? So is it possible that valve or valvetrain fragments could have been loosed in the engine blocking oil passages? I dunno, I am just bummed out right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 From what I've seen, you usually end up with 'just' bent valves. I don't recall ever hearing someone having oil pressure issues as a result. Unless your oil pump is having some issues?? I guess at this point, you could always drain the oil and inspect it. After that, I would tow the car to a reputable shop and get a leakdown test before re-installing a new timing belt kit and such. sorry man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMileHighLGT Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 shitty situation man. I feel your pain. The oil pump is driven off the crankshaft. when you retimed the belt, did you happen to see if there was any damage to the oil pump? obviously the belt wouldnt 'rub' through the pump. if there was any sort of damage to it like that it would have been easy to see the leak. Do you have an oil pressure gauge? Do you have any way of monitoring actual oil pressure? You said when the light was on you didnt hear any abnormal noise, what about when you pulled it into the garage? noise? did you notice the oil pressure lamp? For the sake of checking the stupid stuff, did you happen to knock the sensor when you retimed the engine? The sensor itself sits just next to, kind of underneath the alternator. Its a single wire sensor. make sure its still connected solidly. once again, sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 For the sake of checking the stupid stuff, did you happen to knock the sensor when you retimed the engine? The sensor itself sits just next to, kind of underneath the alternator. Its a single wire sensor. make sure its still connected solidly. Yeah check that for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Fwiw.... http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=202345&d=1423262384 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMileHighLGT Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 ^ that. Also, if you key on, engine off, and unplug the oil pressure switch you should see 10 volts between the harness and engine ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino6303 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Yeah check that for sure! I will add a third to this. I knocked the electrical connector loose on mine when I did my turbo inlet install a few years ago. Scared the crap out of me! The connection is not the most secure. It's pretty much just a female clip sitting there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianEarlSpilner Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 For the sake of checking the stupid stuff, did you happen to knock the sensor when you retimed the engine? The sensor itself sits just next to, kind of underneath the alternator. Its a single wire sensor. make sure its still connected solidly. I had thought of that but saw it was connected so I didn't check it at first. The tab on the sensor was bent and it looked like it may have taken a coolant bath. I unplugged it and cleaned it up. I also drained some oil and it looked fine, no glitter. I fired it up and wouldn't you know it the oil pressure light went off. Maybe it was a dirty connection. I let it idle a bit and watched the a/f (I don't have an oil pressure gauge, I know I should) and everything looked and sounded well. I took it around the block out of boost and everything seems back to normal. So far no misfiring or CEL but I think I am gonna drop it off this week and get it's health checked. I don't want to get my hopes too far up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMileHighLGT Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I had thought of that but saw it was connected so I didn't check it at first. The tab on the sensor was bent and it looked like it may have taken a coolant bath. I unplugged it and cleaned it up. I also drained some oil and it looked fine, no glitter. I fired it up and wouldn't you know it the oil pressure light went off. Maybe it was a dirty connection. I let it idle a bit and watched the a/f (I don't have an oil pressure gauge, I know I should) and everything looked and sounded well. I took it around the block out of boost and everything seems back to normal. So far no misfiring or CEL but I think I am gonna drop it off this week and get it's health checked. I don't want to get my hopes too far up. Good shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Very good to hear. I am glad that was it. You should invest in this: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/btssm-bluetooth-adapter-app-229709.html Awesome and very convenient way to check if all is well with your car (knock, misfire, afr, learning view, and the list goes on). Specifically made for our car. I am using it all the time and it has helped me quite a few times figure out boost/vaccum leak, and lately issues in cylinder 2 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travrach Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Good news, if it's not misfireing and no CEL, just run it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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