Same 22t Stuff. Another guy.

You know the drill. 22t in a 97 wagon. Difference is, I just bought a 93 turbo wagon for $700 bucks and have the complete car for the swap. Going to pull the motor and rebuild the bottom end for sure. Now I'm not looking for crazy power or anything like that. Just a little "boost" from the 22e I have now. Should I just pull the entire wire harness from the turbo and install it in the 97? Or should I get a better set of heads - 25d or even my current 22e heads and run standalone(Emanage)?

First, I don't have inspections or emissions so converting to OBD1 isn't a big deal for me but I have heard horror stories about pulling entire wire harnesses and redoing then in a new chassis.

Second, I can't get wrx heads for it. I understand the want to do that and it sounds dreamy. But its not in the budget and those things are more then impossible to find locally.

Also, what 5 speed is going to be ok with the new motor? Again, wrx is out. STI 6 speed would be sweet but still not in the budget. Is my current 5 speed ok for up to say 250 hp max? I don't drive crazy hard and I'm not trying to track this car. Just a DD with a little more get up and go.

Chime in with your ideas and what is going to be the easiest swap to get me up and running again without throwing thousands at this thing.

i don't know a lot about this.

but you can not improve on the 93 ej22 turbo engine.

it is a closed deck block.

and the heads are designed for the turbo.

why change anything?

rebuilding the bottom end sounds like a lot of expensive work,

and if cost is a consideration ,

why bother, but whatever.

the work to swap it into the 97 is the same regardless of the engine source.

if it is a turbo you have to swap the harness the ecu and all the hardware.

why not run the 93 as is?

ANY ej engine will bolt up to ANY ej trans.

the engine does not determine the trans.

or vice versa.

and if you change the trans you would have to change the rear diff to match.

i don't know a lot about this.

but you can not improve on the 93 ej22 turbo engine.

it is a closed deck block.

and the heads are designed for the turbo.

why change anything?

 

 

rebuilding the bottom end sounds like a lot of expensive work,

and if cost is a consideration ,

why bother, but whatever.

 

the work to swap it into the 97 is the same regardless of the engine source.

if it is a turbo you have to swap the harness the ecu and all the hardware.

 

why not run the 93 as is?

 

ANY ej engine will bolt up to ANY ej trans.

the engine does not determine the trans.

or vice versa.

 

and if you change the trans you would have to change the rear diff to match.

The 22t heads don't flow great at all. May as well find another set of better heads while I have it apart. Rebuilding the bottom end will be done by me. Slowly but surely in my garage. And I'm bothering because it has 250k on it and I would like to keep it reliable and running for as long as possible.

And the swap isn't the same. OBD1 to ODB2 as well as Turbo going into a N/A. Not the same at all. I'm asking if a EMANGE is a better option then running and rewiring the 93 harness into my car.

And I don't like the 93 body style. And I have a fair amount of work done to my 97 already. I'm not throwing all that away just cause I got another car that I only bought for the motor in the first place. And the 93 body is crap. Enough said.

Yes, any EJ will bolt to any EJ. I know that already, not answering my questions. What is a strong 5 speed for the ej that is easy to come by. And if I change the trans I will change the rear diff. I'm probably going to try and get a LDS for the rear while I have everything apart anyway.

05+ LGT or 06+ WRX 5MT is probably what you want.

Neither of those are going to pop up around here. I'll keep an eye out on craigs for both though. Thanks. I did find a 92 22t 5 speed. Decent or crap?

Nothing about this swap will be easy. Going standalone creates a whole hell of a lot of problems, but you gain much better tuning abilities. Going standalone still requires harness merging to make it work, and it may end up being more merging then just doing the ej22t harness merge. No you cannot just take the ej22t harness and plug it into your car, you will need to cut a splice the ej22t ECU and engine harness into your car (very similar to merging a wrx swap).

As far as heads go, you will have to use the intake manifold that matches the heads, this will create nightmares of wiring to make it all work. Any NA set of heads will not have the right cam profile for running a turbo, so you will need cams for any NA head you use(these must be custom regrinds from someone like Delta cams).

IMHO if you want a cheap reliable swap you would do a harness merge with the ej22t harness and use the complete ej22t in your car. This will convert you to OBDI, which should not be an issue for you if you do not have emissions. You can always port and polish your heads, install larger valves, regrind your cams, upgrade your turbo, install front mounts, upgrade fueling, etc. to increase HP on the ej22t.

22t heads have a reputation for being crap but they are great. Yes they don't 'flow as well' as everyone states but power and torque is not all about flow. They deliver quite a bit of torque and are tons of fun. Non interference is a plus. Port work will open them up and you could get a cam grind (may get a rough idle). Using them will save $$$ and if you want lots more hp throw a big turbo and get a robtune. They have HLAs which means you will never have to adjust your valves, only replace the inexpensive HLAS.

First gen tleg 5mts have a good reputation for being robust transmissions but get it checked out. A lot of them have been beat on so know their history as best as you can. If it has the rear VLSD diff then sweet! But how the hell can anyone tell you how long your stock trans will hold up? Probably 260 hp for a while, lol. I've asked the same questions as you so good luck!

Since you have the donor car and emissions isnt an issue might as well use the tleg harness. 22t ecu is pretty smart and can run 20g heads (good flowing heads btw ) no problem.

Slapping 25d heads on the 22t is not as easy as it sounds. Emanage would probably work great with that setup, or megasquirt but you have a lot of research to do.

You want to build a reliable boosted engine on the cheap? Good luck bro! You want the cheapest most reliable option, swap everything over from the donor car. A stock 22t is tons of fun. Start there and learn something, then go from there imo.

rebuilding the bottom end sounds like a lot of expensive work,

and if cost is a consideration ,

why bother, but whatever

It's insurance, why not rebuild the engine before you start boostn around? I personally would hate to pull the engine twice. Being a 93 engine, plus a turbo I'm sure the rings and bearings need a refreshing. If it were mine I would rebuild the whole engine and port&polish the cylinder heads and port match the intake manifold and of course all of the seals and gaskets.

Also say you just install it how it came then a bearing spins and you chew up the rod and crank. That would be a lot more expensive in the long run.

You know the drill. 22t in a 97 wagon. Difference is, I just bought a 93 turbo wagon for $700 bucks and have the complete car for the swap. Going to pull the motor and rebuild the bottom end for sure. Now I'm not looking for crazy power or anything like that. Just a little "boost" from the 22e I have now. Should I just pull the entire wire harness from the turbo and install it in the 97? Or should I get a better set of heads - 25d or even my current 22e heads and run standalone(Emanage)?

1. Get 25D heads if you can & get head gaskets that will put you in the 8:1 CR range or VERY close to it.

2. Your can run a standalone or a piggyback to control the stock ECU better. You WILL need to be tuned. If at all possible, get your hands on a 25D ECU. They will conform to the boost a little better than the 22E ECUs.

First, I don't have inspections or emissions so converting to OBD1 isn't a big deal for me but I have heard horror stories about pulling entire wire harnesses and redoing then in a new chassis.

You don't have to mess with your wiring in the engine bay. You can leave it alone if you're going to use a piggyback for the ECU. You will need to add a few sensors & extra wiring but it's not too difficult if you know what you're doing.

Second, I can't get wrx heads for it. I understand the want to do that and it sounds dreamy. But its not in the budget and those things are more then impossible to find locally.

Don't worry about it then. If you're not prepared to go that far, then don't.

Also, what 5 speed is going to be ok with the new motor? Again, wrx is out. STI 6 speed would be sweet but still not in the budget. Is my current 5 speed ok for up to say 250 hp max? I don't drive crazy hard and I'm not trying to track this car. Just a DD with a little more get up and go.

Your current 5spd is okay up to 270ish bhp if you DON'T abuse it. A DD with a little more get up & go is fine. You will need a better clutch for the extra power though.

Chime in with your ideas and what is going to be the easiest swap to get me up and running again without throwing thousands at this thing.

The absolute CHEAPEST & EASIEST way to get that hybrid going & yes, it will be a hybrid of some kind, is to cut the cross member so the turbo plumbing will fit, put the 22E heads & intake, on the 22T block, switch over the sensors & wiring so that everything plugs up nicely. That's also the fastest way.

The 22t heads don't flow great at all. May as well find another set of better heads while I have it apart. Rebuilding the bottom end will be done by me. Slowly but surely in my garage. And I'm bothering because it has 250k on it and I would like to keep it reliable and running for as long as possible.

If you're going through the trouble of doing that, what you need to do is get ahold of 97-99 25D heads & use them for your EJ22T. You will also want to replace the pistons to give you more off-boost power. Your ideal compression ratio will be 8:1 or 8.2:1, gasket crush factored in.

And the swap isn't the same. OBD1 to ODB2 as well as Turbo going into a N/A. Not the same at all. I'm asking if a EMANGE is a better option then running and rewiring the 93 harness into my car.

Yes, it is much better than wiring up the 93 nonsense. In fact, you shouldn't even have to touch that wiring for this. But there are options for you if you decided to do this.

Yes, any EJ will bolt to any EJ. I know that already, not answering my questions. What is a strong 5 speed for the ej that is easy to come by. And if I change the trans I will change the rear diff. I'm probably going to try and get a LDS for the rear while I have everything apart anyway.

Your normal Legacy 5spd will be enough for what you are planning. They are no weaker or stronger than the standard WRX 5spd below 06. And you have a 22T Legacy. Did it not come with a LSD rear diff? If so, find out what ratio it is & get the 5spd that matches it. Boost LOVES long gears.

Rallitek PP6! There one on sli for sale right now

Link? I searched around over there but I didn't see anything.

Nothing about this swap will be easy. Going standalone creates a whole hell of a lot of problems, but you gain much better tuning abilities. Going standalone still requires harness merging to make it work, and it may end up being more merging then just doing the ej22t harness merge. No you cannot just take the ej22t harness and plug it into your car, you will need to cut a splice the ej22t ECU and engine harness into your car (very similar to merging a wrx swap).

 

As far as heads go, you will have to use the intake manifold that matches the heads, this will create nightmares of wiring to make it all work. Any NA set of heads will not have the right cam profile for running a turbo, so you will need cams for any NA head you use(these must be custom regrinds from someone like Delta cams).

 

IMHO if you want a cheap reliable swap you would do a harness merge with the ej22t harness and use the complete ej22t in your car. This will convert you to OBDI, which should not be an issue for you if you do not have emissions. You can always port and polish your heads, install larger valves, regrind your cams, upgrade your turbo, install front mounts, upgrade fueling, etc. to increase HP on the ej22t.

I don't need to harness merge if I literally take the entire harness out of one car and put it in the other. It will just be a complete OBD1 electrical system in a 97. Probably not easy but it is doable and an option. I didn't say plug it in, I meant pulling ever single wire and putting it back in mine. Sorry if I worded that wrong before. I will delta regrind if I go with NA heads. And I will get intake along with heads if I go that route. And ECU.

22t heads have a reputation for being crap but they are great. Yes they don't 'flow as well' as everyone states but power and torque is not all about flow. They deliver quite a bit of torque and are tons of fun. Non interference is a plus. Port work will open them up and you could get a cam grind (may get a rough idle). Using them will save $$$ and if you want lots more hp throw a big turbo and get a robtune. They have HLAs which means you will never have to adjust your valves, only replace the inexpensive HLAS.

 

First gen tleg 5mts have a good reputation for being robust transmissions but get it checked out. A lot of them have been beat on so know their history as best as you can. If it has the rear VLSD diff then sweet! But how the hell can anyone tell you how long your stock trans will hold up? Probably 260 hp for a while, lol. I've asked the same questions as you so good luck!

 

Since you have the donor car and emissions isnt an issue might as well use the tleg harness. 22t ecu is pretty smart and can run 20g heads (good flowing heads btw ) no problem.

 

Slapping 25d heads on the 22t is not as easy as it sounds. Emanage would probably work great with that setup, or megasquirt but you have a lot of research to do.

 

You want to build a reliable boosted engine on the cheap? Good luck bro! You want the cheapest most reliable option, swap everything over from the donor car. A stock 22t is tons of fun. Start there and learn something, then go from there imo.

Why would you want to regrind the cam on the 22t heads? Isn't it already good to go for the current setup? I need to look into robtune still. There are enough tlegs around here that I'm sure I can probably find another one with a 5speed when I get to that point, just wanted to make sure it would work for what I'm looking to do. 20g heads are out. Can't find them anywhere, including ebay right now. That complete swap is sounding better and better. Simple enough(wiring aside) and it has been working for the past 20 years, why not more.

It's insurance, why not rebuild the engine before you start boostn around? I personally would hate to pull the engine twice. Being a 93 engine, plus a turbo I'm sure the rings and bearings need a refreshing. If it were mine I would rebuild the whole engine and port&polish the cylinder heads and port match the intake manifold and of course all of the seals and gaskets.

 

Also say you just install it how it came then a bearing spins and you chew up the rod and crank. That would be a lot more expensive in the long run.

Exactly. May as well freshen it up before installing it for peace of mind. And getting another 250k out of it would be nice.

why not just swap to 20g or even 20k heads to stay obd2?

Can't find them. And because I have the 22t heads already. And I can get 25d heads all day long around here for next to nothing.

1. Get 25D heads if you can & get head gaskets that will put you in the 8:1 CR range or VERY close to it.

2. Your can run a standalone or a piggyback to control the stock ECU better. You WILL need to be tuned. If at all possible, get your hands on a 25D ECU. They will conform to the boost a little better than the 22E ECUs.

You don't have to mess with your wiring in the engine bay. You can leave it alone if you're going to use a piggyback for the ECU. You will need to add a few sensors & extra wiring but it's not too difficult if you know what you're doing.

Don't worry about it then. If you're not prepared to go that far, then don't.

Your current 5spd is okay up to 270ish bhp if you DON'T abuse it. A DD with a little more get up & go is fine. You will need a better clutch for the extra power though.

The absolute CHEAPEST & EASIEST way to get that hybrid going & yes, it will be a hybrid of some kind, is to cut the cross member so the turbo plumbing will fit, put the 22E heads & intake, on the 22T block, switch over the sensors & wiring so that everything plugs up nicely. That's also the fastest way.

If you're going through the trouble of doing that, what you need to do is get ahold of 97-99 25D heads & use them for your EJ22T. You will also want to replace the pistons to give you more off-boost power. Your ideal compression ratio will be 8:1 or 8.2:1, gasket crush factored in.

Yes, it is much better than wiring up the 93 nonsense. In fact, you shouldn't even have to touch that wiring for this. But there are options for you if you decided to do this.

Your normal Legacy 5spd will be enough for what you are planning. They are no weaker or stronger than the standard WRX 5spd below 06. And you have a 22T Legacy. Did it not come with a LSD rear diff? If so, find out what ratio it is & get the 5spd that matches it. Boost LOVES long gears.

I can get 25d heads everywhere around here. Super easy to find. I have one of the best tuners in the nation about 10 blocks from my house so tuning isn't a big deal if I go standalone. I have that covered. My current 5 speed is short. Grind going into 2nd and 3rd so it has to get replace regardless. I just want to make sure I get a decent replacement since it has to come out anyway. Clutch is on the list to get, that will be replace as well since mine likes to slip from time to time just for fun. I don't need to cut the crossmember. I have a COMPLETE 100% stock 93 turbo. I have ever single piece in the car for a complete swap if I wanted. I don't really need off boost power since this really is just a DD. I just want some boost when I get the RPMs high enough and to just keep it low key. I will most likely to new rings and bearings and check the pistons/rods/crank but if it all looks good its just going back in. I have no idea about the rear diff yet. I haven't got that far. The car will be delivered on thursday or friday so this weekend is when I'll find out what all it has in it.

When you split the case to replace the bearings make sure none of the oil squirters have fallen out. Use some Red Loctite to keep them in place.

Some of the first gen 22t guys have done a cam grind by Delta and apparently it helps with the upper end. You can get on bbs and see what some people think. I'm probably not ever going to mess with mine, but who knows. I have two sets of spare 22T heads so I guess I could play around with some cams someday, lol.

Delta has different grinding profiles to produce different results (e.g. 2000 grind for more upper end, 1000 for TQ... etc.)

a phenomenal cost/power gain ratio - much more so than an exhaust/header upgrade

When you split the case to replace the bearings make sure none of the oil squirters have fallen out. Use some Red Loctite to keep them in place.

 

Some of the first gen 22t guys have done a cam grind by Delta and apparently it helps with the upper end. You can get on bbs and see what some people think. I'm probably not ever going to mess with mine, but who knows. I have two sets of spare 22T heads so I guess I could play around with some cams someday, lol.

 

The injectors should read 11-12 ohms according to the FSM.

 

Since you have the 4eat I highly recommend doing the power mode mod. It does wonders on a first gen. I don't know if you have heard of it but it changes the shifting maps and makes them a lot more aggressive. You can stomp on the gas and it won't shift until it hits high rpms. All you have to do is ground pin 4 of the ecu. I wired mine up to a relay and switch so I could have an indicator light. Thread: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/rocker-switch-question-198670.html

 

When you end up pulling the motor definitely replace the plastic oil separator plate with the new metal one. The plastic ones are prone to cracking.

 

If you want more power you can also throw on a td04 and tmic and crank up the boost with a manual boost controller. It's on my list of things to do. I have a mint td04 sitting in the basement, but it's too cold outside and I don't have a garage.

@monkeyposeur I'm just going to tie these threads together since you're the only one responding anyway. I have been over on BBS all afternoon and have found a handful of things I need to check on the car as far as getting it running right.

Looks like the cam grind is now on the todo list for sure. Thanks for the reading on the injectors, I'll check that too.

I'm not keeping the 4eat. I'm going to sell it to make back as much as I can on the original purchase price and stick with the 5speed. I have heard of the power mod but I just love the manual way too much to give it up now.

As far as power goes, I'll be putting in a td04 and a forester top mount so that it clears my firewall. I have the top mount already and should have the turbo next month I think.

Link? I searched around over there but I didn't see anything.

 

 

http://sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28121

Looks like the cam grind is now on the todo list for sure. Thanks for the reading on the injectors, I'll check that too.

 

I'm not keeping the 4eat. I'm going to sell it to make back as much as I can on the original purchase price and stick with the 5speed. I have heard of the power mod but I just love the manual way too much to give it up now.

 

As far as power goes, I'll be putting in a td04 and a forester top mount so that it clears my firewall. I have the top mount already and should have the turbo next month I think.

I think the cam grind is about $200 iirc. Now I really want to try it, ha ha.

Only reason I am keeping the 4eat in the SS is I gave it to my wife and she loves the automatic even though she can drive a manual just fine.

I am using an XT tmic as well. Can't wait to get around to swapping it on!!!

http://sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28121

Thanks Zues. Just emailed my tuner to see if he has worked with the pp6 at all

Thanks Zues. Just emailed my tuner to see if he has worked with the pp6 at all

PP6 was a great unit, but unfortunately it is no longer supported by the manufacture. Keep this in mind, as finding parts and solving issues may become a nightmare.

I have a COMPLETE 100% stock 93 turbo. I have ever single piece in the car for a complete swap if I wanted. I don't really need off boost power since this really is just a DD. I just want some boost when I get the RPMs high enough and to just keep it low key. I will most likely to new rings and bearings and check the pistons/rods/crank but if it all looks good its just going back in. I have no idea about the rear diff yet. I haven't got that far. The car will be delivered on thursday or friday so this weekend is when I'll find out what all it has in it.

That's EXACTLY why you want more off boost power. It's not energy efficient to remain in boost all of the time plus it wears the turbo down much quicker if it's always spinning at half it's rpm, so you will need more than the 22T turbo so that you can stay out of boost.

As far as power goes, I'll be putting in a td04 and a forester top mount so that it clears my firewall. I have the top mount already and should have the turbo next month I think.

WRX TD04s run out of breath very quickly, so don't ask for TOO much out of it. It will be sufficient for your needs though, so don't worry.

The wiring will not just swap over to your car. There is no easy way around the wiring harness merge. You MUST merge harnesses to make it work, whether it is merging the ej22t harness or hacking up your harness for a standalone. Standalone will be expensive if done right and made reliable. I am in the middle of my harness merge and I have at least 40 hours into it, and I am sure I have another 20-30 hours left.

Would he still have to merge harnesses if he swapped the 25D heads or 22E heads & sensors over? (22T cams would need to be swapped into 22E heads, of course). If he's swapping the 22T over, then yes, he would have to merge harnesses.

hey bud, im in denver, we met at the redrocks show. didnt like me spanking you in the gt huh had to swap!

we have a mechanic and team thats been doing 2.2 swaps in everything from vw busses to 72 corvair mid engine mounts. lots of exp.

we could totally steer you in the right direction or have parts/mechanic resources

talk to suba pros too

hey bud, im in denver, we met at the redrocks show. didnt like me spanking you in the gt huh had to swap!

 

we have a mechanic and team thats been doing 2.2 swaps in everything from vw busses to 72 corvair mid engine mounts. lots of exp.

 

 

we could totally steer you in the right direction or have parts/mechanic resources

talk to suba pros too

Yeah, I couldn't keep up wit the GT. So now I'm going to just one up. Haha. And I'll keep in touch which the parts/resources/swap info. I'm still working on getting this one running before I pull the motor out of it. Throwing all kinds of codes I have to fix before I pull it.

What codes? It took me a year to rid my 22t of little bugs. Drove me nuts, lol.

VF11/12s are tiny but bulletproof. 173k on mine so far and no issues.