Best performance oriented winter tire?

Just like the title says; what is the best performance oriented winter tire?

 

I need a tire that can get through 4+ inches of snow easily, does decently in ice, while also having above average dry performance.

 

Note: I live in blacksburg, va. The elevation is about 2000 ft and the weather is pretty cold most of the year .

 

Please post a short review of any tire you have used listed in the above poll.

 

Edit: Also note how the thread wear was for the 'said tire" i.e. how many miles did the tires last?

Thanks and happy voting

Voted for the only one I have any experience with.

 

There are times when I wish I had a 3 tire setup... Dedicated winter (studded), A/S transition (ContiExtremes most likely), and dedicated Summer (Toyo T1R). The Wintersport M3's combine the two non-summer tires and I end up running each setup for ~6 months out of the year. You will give up some extreme condition capability for the excellent cold, dry weather performance, but it's worth it since most of the other cars out there will prevent you from hanging it out during the really snowy/icy conditions.

Er...isn't that an oxymoron?

 

When you have something that does 'okay' with several different things, it likely doesn't do 'great' with any one of them. Summer tires suck in the cold, but stick like glue on warm pavement. All seasons don't perform great, but don't harden up. Winter tires grab the snow, but not so much the pavement.

 

Not quite sure you can change the facts of life on that one

I've used both the Blizzak and the Dunlops, the Dunlop Wintersport M3s are much better than the Blizzaks in every way; on dry roads, wet roads and snow covered roads. Much quieter too. Actually the Dunlop Wintersport M3s are better than the stock RE92s in every way too, they even handle better than the RE92s on dry roads! Kinda sad that a dedicated snow tire out handles the stock tires.

ece_tim, There is a difference between the "Winter Performance" tires and "Snow" tires. You sacrifice some ice performance (but non studded-tires suck on ice anyways) and you gain cold, dry pavement traction. The Dunlops fall within the winter performance category.

 

I notice almost no change in tire stiffness or grip going from my 215/45-17 Wintersport M3's to my 225/40-18 Toyo T1R's, as long as I change over when the temps reach ~50F.

You might want to add Dunlop 3D to the poll as they are the successor to the M3 and there are folks here using them.

 

My Nokian RSi are definitely not in the "performance" category.

You might want to add Dunlop 3D to the poll as they are the successor to the M3 and there are folks here using them.

 

My Nokian RSi are definitely not in the "performance" category.

 

Can mods add poll options?

 

If so, can a mod add the above as an option and Nokian WR.

dunlop's winter perfomance tires ftmfw. Ive been using them for 5 years and they are nothing short of spectacular. the are even better in warm dry conditions than most all season tires.

I have the M3's on the wife's Audi.

 

Too lazy to switch to summer tires since I don't have space to keep them anymore. It has lasted 2 seasons with little sign of wear.. quite unbelievable actually. Winter traction is very nice on a heavy car like the audi. Summer performance seems perfectly fine, although with squishier sidewalls it doesn't corner that well... but I'm comparing it to the Evo. So... it works well

dunlop's winter perfomance tires ftmfw. Ive been using them for 5 years and they are nothing short of spectacular. the are even better in warm dry conditions than most all season tires.

 

That sounds very promising

Define performance?

I have Hakka RSIs on my LGT.

Yeah, they only have an R speed rating, but they're more tha adaquate in aggressive driving. Predictable and reasonably grippy. Squirm is a bit of an issue, but that's the case with any full depth tire.

The snow/ice traction is better than any of the "performance" snow tires, enough to make up for the noticable, but not significant difference in dry performance, IMHO. Its not like you're tracking, right?

However, RSIs are shockingly expensive.

I've also heard Michelin X-ICEs, which again are not a "performance" snow tire, are very decent in the snow. This is from a guy who has done BIR in the middle of winter

 

I've also had Nokian WR (not WR2s). The snow performance is as good as any of the performance snow tires and the dry performance is slightly better IMHO. Noisy though. Treadwear was disappointing on these, given the 50k mi claim Nokian puts on them.

 

Oh and Blizzaks suck.

 

edit: Noticed you live in VA. Lots of dry, over 40F days? Get the WRs.

New England weather is pretty crazy so it's not uncommon for me to see a few 70F+ days before I've made the switch to my summer rubber. This past spring I had to drive home on a fluke 90 degree scorcher with the M3's and it felt less mushy than my fiance's Yaris w/ Michelin X-ice (snow tires) at 50 degrees.

I like the Conti ExtremeContacts for a good balance of A/S and snow rating. I've had them on two Subarus so far and have nothing but good things to say. Obviously, they aren't winter only but they are pretty inexpensive A/S with a snow rating...

 

My .02...

To people complaining about Blizzaks:

There are different flavours of Blizzaks. LM-22 and LM-25 are high performance winter tires and WS-50, WS-60 and Revo 1 are "studless ice and snow" with multicell compound that suck in dry and even more in warm weather.

 

Which Blizzaks are you writing about?

 

Krzys

Any other opinions?

I've got a set of M3's on my wife's 350Z and they're an amazing tire. I plan on getting a set for my wagon this winter and can't wait to see what they do on an AWD car.

I was looking into the Blizzak ws 60 but I just read that they suck on dry roads. Anybody have experience with them and why arent they listed as a choice in the vote. They are rated better than lm 25 on tirerack.com. but do they really suck on dry roads.

I've got a set of M3's on my wife's 350Z and they're an amazing tire. I plan on getting a set for my wagon this winter and can't wait to see what they do on an AWD car.

 

I might have to get the M3's for my car this winter as well. Noticed you are from Indiana. Whereabouts?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I love my ContiWinterContact TS810S snow tires. Many Porsche Boxster owners run them as winter tires and feel that they out handle the stock "performance" tires.

^ The Conti's rated very highly - I'd liked to have tried those, as well as the Hankook W300s, which are also highly recommended by many in the Scooby community. The Nokian WRs are also very, very highly rated among my local Scooby community (note that I haven't read much about the G2 variant, though, mainly, I'd guess, due to the fact that this tire was just introduced this past season).

 

A lot of police officers in the snowy parts swear by the Goodyear GW3s.

 

I see a lot of Bridgestone LM-25s on European vehicles here in NE-Ohio. Their owners all love them, and most have said that they've gotten way more mileage out of them then they'd thought possible, and that even when they burn through the initial special tread compound, these tires are still much better in the wintry stuff than any "All-Season" that they've used in the past. An Audi owner, who parks in my parking deck here at work, has chosen to run his last set all year - mainly as they're expecting a baby, and he wanted to save some money, rather than re-do his summer setup (with some *nice* BBSs) - and he says that they do well enough, as long as you don't go crazy, in the summer. I'd honestly also not hesitate to try these, either.

 

I'm currently on my first set of dedicated winter tires - Dunlop 3Ds.

 

I think that NE-Ohio type weather, is about what you're describing VTGT, with a bit more snow/slush (and ice, in the lesser traveled parts) "on ground" on a winterly basis than the type of conditions that you've portrayed. With some decent snowfall this year (and at one point, a warning issued against unnecessary travel due to blizzard-conditions), I can tell you that, based on your "snow/ice" requirements, these tires won't be a problem at all.

 

On the TireRack review pages for the 3Ds, I'm the '05 LGT sedan, with just over 3K miles on the these tires (from Shaker Heights, Ohio), and I've tried to detail their shortcomings as well as strengths as best I could, given my short stint with them. I'd link to it from here, but I don't know how. :oops: It's a more concise summary than what I'd written/updated-to on the running/comprehensive tire-reviews thread here in this Forum.

 

I'm impressed enough that I'd easily buy these tires for my wife's ride. No doubt about it. They're an awesome safety factor.

 

But honestly, of the other choices above, I truly don't think you could go wrong, either.

 

For me, my buying decision had to do, at the time, with availability/sizing, as well as discounted pricing. Honestly, I think that any of the above are great contenders, and you won't go wrong with them - furthermore, I think that paired with our AWD, there's no way you'd have any trouble, in the situations you've painted.

Just like the title says; what is the best performance oriented winter tire?.............

 

ADAC, in Germany, does very extensive testing of performance winter tires.

You can find tons of objective performance data at:

 

http://www.adac.de/Tests/Reifentests/Winterreifen/205_55_R16H/default.asp?ComponentID=194624&SourcePageID=8979&TL=2#

 

Their testing rated the Alpin PA3 highest for dry traction.

I've used the Hankook Icebears through a New England winter - great value, and got me through lots of days with 4" of snow - not that it lasts that long with the way my town plows (overtime frenzy).

 

They did great on trips into Vermont, where snow covered side roads are the norm, as well as one trip up into the Catskills.

To people complaining about Blizzaks:

There are different flavours of Blizzaks. LM-22 and LM-25 are high performance winter tires and WS-50, WS-60 and Revo 1 are "studless ice and snow" with multicell compound that suck in dry and even more in warm weather.

 

Which Blizzaks are you writing about?

 

Krzys

 

I've used both the WS-50 and the LM-22. The WS-50 are absolutely terrible in anything except deep snow. They are really for non-performance cars. Maybe they're OK for grandma's Accord or Camry. I had them on a Honda Prelude and they just sucked. I couldn't wait to get them off. Even my wife would say "when are you going to take off those mushy tires, I can't stand them!"

The LM-22 and LM-25 are "performance" snow tires that are a vast improvement especially on dry roads, but they do give up some in deep snow compared to the WS-50 series.

The Dunlop Wintersport M3 is a vast imrovement in ALL conditions compared to the LM-22.

I have run dedicated performance winter tires since 2002 on various vehicles, mostly RWD BMWs.

 

I rate the Dunlop M3s slightly higher than the Blizzak LM 22 (I had the virtually idential LM 22 predecessor to the LM 25). I had Pilot Alpin PA2s as well, which were a bit below the LM 22s.

 

My Outback came with Hakkas, which offer superior snow and ice traction, but are not in the performance winter category.

Yokohama advan S4 then the Dunlops