timing belt marks

I would like some advice on this new issue that i have, it has to do with the timing marks on 2.5 dohc. i am able to use two bars with a 10mm hex socket and that holds the cams while i install the belt.

i bought the gates kit online and all parts are new, all idlers, waterpump, belt, tensioner. when installing the belt all marks are spot on, do i need to set the left intake cam off to make up for the tension applied?

im not sure how to get this lined up and remain lined up after rotating, do i have a wrong belt? have i tried to many times and ruined my tensioner? can those new belts stretch out, its a new belt.

after everything is lined up and i rotate the crank 2 full times, the driver side cams arent lining back up.

Its been 390 days since i have driven this car! hahahah 390.

here is the crank lined up before and after 2 rotations.

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m532/artmor79/IMG_0995.jpg

here is the passenger side, it also stays lined up before and after 2 full rotations.

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m532/artmor79/IMG_0993.jpg

and here is where i am having a problem, after 2 rotations they look like this .

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m532/artmor79/IMG_0994.jpg

http://people.csail.mit.edu/ilh/vacation/

I think you should rotate it two more times and see if they come back.

There are threads here on doing that job.

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/timing-belt-replacement-2-5t-106809.html

yea i have the vaca pics and have been using that to rebuild my engine, i'm sure i got the process right on the install (i watched this youtube video of some guy doing it 1.5 minutes flat) everything lines up but they dont stay lined up after spinning it 2 or 4 or 6 rotations. very weird that its doing this.

i will re-read the manual and see where i am going wrong.

i recall them always being this much off and not getting any closer or further apart.

the heads and block had to be decked to fix an issue that the first machine shop created, i then took it all apart and took it to machine shop number 2 to have them fix it all.

i have taken this belt off probably 4-6 times and the tensioner the same amount of times to compress the pin, now the tensioner seems to extend further and faster (almost as if to much pressure now).

I line everything up and the lines are good, i remove the pin and then it pulls the drivers intake cam back cause of the slack in the belt. after i rotate it, its always off by this much.

i was thinking that maybe i should put it together one tooth off so that when the belt is tightened and pulled back a tooth, then the cam might line up?

uuurggghhhhhh

maybe i had it lined up the whole time?

oh man hahahahahahaha

i will go home and put it back on today and take more pics of it.

As long as you installed the belt with everything lined up properly you did it correctly. If you're not 100% sure, just take the belt off, line everything up again, and reinstall the belt. Your tensioner should be fine as long as you've been compressing it properly (very slowly) per the vaca pics. It's not leaking is it?

From some random article I read a few months ago:

Timing belts have an odd number of teeth so that the same tooth isn't always contacting the cam sprockets in the same place every time. Once the belt is installed it will take many revolutions to get all of the marks lined up.

• When you install the timing belt all of the marks need to line up.
  
• When you remove the timing belt, you just need to make sure the marks on the cam sprockets line up (ignore the belt marks).
  

As long as you installed the belt with everything lined up properly you did it correctly. If you're not 100% sure, just take the belt off, line everything up again, and reinstall the belt. Your tensioner should be fine as long as you've been compressing it properly (very slowly) per the vaca pics. It's not leaking is it?

 

From some random article I read a few months ago:

Timing belts have an odd number of teeth so that the same tooth isn't always contacting the cam sprockets in the same place every time. Once the belt is installed it will take many revolutions to get all of the marks lined up.

 

 

• When you install the timing belt all of the marks need to line up.
  
• When you remove the timing belt, you just need to make sure the marks on the cam sprockets line up (ignore the belt marks).
  

yep i have been doing it the way the vaca pics state, its not leaking or anything abnormal.

I have not gotten around to it since i took it off on monday but i will be reinstalling it all back maybe tonight. i am hoping i can get this car started so i can start driving it again.

i got me a cheap code reader to see what the check engine light was on for and i am getting P2109...

so i get to mess with the timing belt and my dbw tb, i remember some months back when i was cleaning it all was working fine then some odd reason i could not open the butterfly anymore, i took it as maybe once i pull it back in, then it will open and close like its suppose to.

i am going to remove the IC and have a look to see if its opening and closing now, if not i was i have more issues to tackle.

after messing with a few leaks (bottom radiator hose, turbo to tank hose.) and i had PS leak, fixed that and no more leaks!!

i have changed the oil at 100 miles and have been checking it (still aint bought a pressure gauge) the oil had some bronze looking chips in the oil, hope thats normal. the engine seems to run pretty good at start up it has slight piston slap but goes away once heated.

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m532/artmor79/Mobile%20Uploads/image_3.jpeg

i currently am still having issues though, the sound is coming from left head area, sounds like lifter noise but not really sure what it is. I am going to do a compression test this weekend and maybe a leakdown if those numbers are bad.

I am not liking this noise could be valve clearance, bent valve, ?

i am currently driving it with no issues other than a slight misfire at idle(i wonder if TB is still off?) i have no other driveablity issues.

Metal flakes in your oil is never a good thing. How well did you clean your oil pan when your rebuilt the motor?

I don't know what your transportation situation is like, but if I were you I'd park the car ASAP and open everything back up and see what's going on.

Would you rather disassemble the motor twice, or pay for another rebuild? If you're lucky you may get away with only replacing the bearings.

Yea i made sure everything was super clean when i was building it up. The noise is loud, it comes and goes or at least quites down but its pretty pronounced rod knock. Im am not sure if i just trade it in or try and fix it again.

I guess its not alot of work now that u have done 2 times hahahahah.

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m532/artmor79/Mobile%20Uploads/image_9.jpeg

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m532/artmor79/Mobile%20Uploads/image_11.jpeg

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m532/artmor79/Mobile%20Uploads/image_18.jpeg

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m532/artmor79/Mobile%20Uploads/image_13.jpeg

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m532/artmor79/Mobile%20Uploads/image_8.jpeg

Don't trade it in man... you can do this!

So I guess the question is what causes rod knock after less than 100 miles.

Don't trade it in man... you can do this!

So I guess the question is what causes rod knock after less than 100 miles.

for sure not trading it in, it runs to beast right now and today it rolled to 500 miles on my way to work.

i am not sure guess i have to tear it down again to see what is the cause, i had a hell of a time with the timing belt i wonder if that could of caused some issues on start up?

everything was new, new rings, bearings hoses, oil cooler, oil pump, everything was torqued to spec.

i used a total of 6 cans of break cleaner, i used joe gibbs driven lube to assemble it all.

just so heart broken cause i can jump in my car and it will run so good, damn this noise!!!!

this thread makes me very nervous.

OP, hope you get it sorted. I think the noise is hard to diagnose in the video. It's a noisy motor anyways. My rod knock was a faint thudding that came on with light load only. I'd guess between 5in/hg to 2psi.

The pic of the oil is what worries me. I'm going to be sweating bullets doing my 1st oil change and cutting that filter open.

this thread makes me very nervous.

 

OP, hope you get it sorted. I think the noise is hard to diagnose in the video. It's a noisy motor anyways. My rod knock was a faint thudding that came on with light load only. I'd guess between 5in/hg to 2psi.

 

The pic of the oil is what worries me. I'm going to be sweating bullets doing my 1st oil change and cutting that filter open.

na dont be nervous this car has had it out for me since i bought it, i got it oct 5, 2014 turbo blew on jan,2015 and its been my nightmare ever since. i finally got it running on feb,2016 but still having issues left and right.

i just have bad subie mojo.

 

 

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m532/artmor79/Mobile%20Uploads/image_18.jpeg

 

 

is this the best way to do( what ever your preferred gasket material is) around the edge to join to case halves together. I've only seen it the other way, i think its the passenger side case half, the one with the o rings, that the gasket material would go on. so it goes around the o rings and not in the oil/ coolant passages and over the o rings. i wish i could circle the spots but it only a couple of areas.

i was wondering if this mattered at all or if its more of a prefered method sort of a thing? ( maybe some gasket material broke loose and clogged something.)

are those king bearings?

i just put in a set and it was perfect checking it with plastigage, but the crankshaft end play with the thrust bearing was too tight so i had to loosen it up. it was between .0025 and .003. the machine shop told me they want it in between .004 and .005. my service manual says anywhere between .003 and .010 is ok to run. all im trying to say is that my king bearings were a tight fit for the thrust bearing and i wonder if it is a common thing.

i dont mean to thread jack or anything so you dont have to say something back , but i am about to do this for the first time and am nervous as well

is this the best way to do( what ever your preferred gasket material is) around the edge to join to case halves together. I've only seen it the other way, i think its the passenger side case half, the one with the o rings, that the gasket material would go on. so it goes around the o rings and not in the oil/ coolant passages and over the o rings. i wish i could circle the spots but it only a couple of areas.

 

 

 

i was wondering if this mattered at all or if its more of a prefered method sort of a thing? ( maybe some gasket material broke loose and clogged something.)

 

are those king bearings?

i just put in a set and it was perfect checking it with plastigage, but the crankshaft end play with the thrust bearing was too tight so i had to loosen it up. it was between .0025 and .003. the machine shop told me they want it in between .004 and .005. my service manual says anywhere between .003 and .010 is ok to run. all im trying to say is that my king bearings were a tight fit for the thrust bearing and i wonder if it is a common thing.

 

i dont mean to thread jack or anything so you dont have to say something back , but i am about to do this for the first time and am nervous as well

not sure but both the FSM and this youtube video did it a different way.

i made sure about the sealant, to not layer it on for it to squeeze onto the bearings, i hope that is not what caused this issue.

and yes they are king bearings.

all measured fine without clearance issues.

and i have learned that the machine shop and the fsm is always way off (my local machine shop is all about V8 engines). i'd trust the fsm first, they wrote it for a reason.

i love subaru mikes video.

was needing to watch it again and your right thats what he does.

what was your crankshaft endplay at?

na dont be nervous this car has had it out for me since i bought it, i got it oct 5, 2014 turbo blew on jan,2015 and its been my nightmare ever since. i finally got it running on feb,2016 but still having issues left and right.

 

i just have bad subie mojo.

ha! You're talking to an ex-Evo owner that had his 1st turbo Subie spin a rod in 2 days. If you put that in perspective, mines going to throw a rod when I 1st hit the key.

At this point with your situation, I'd pull the motor and take the pan off and see what you got.

Got this in the mail today.

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m532/artmor79/Legacy%20GT%202005/2ED0A4D6-B24E-4D63-8AC8-39C41DDFBF99.jpg

Yep that's pretty common for us.

Had mine replaced last Thursday.