Options: Stock Gt Brakes or BBK?

Im planning on selling my summer car, and for the years to come I plan on attending some track days with the Legacy (2.5i). Im just wondering what would be a better choice to actually buy used LGT breaks or going with one of the many front BBK. The way I have pictured it in my head is:

used LGT breaks $300-$400 + rebuild (guesstimate $200) + discs + $200 = $700-900 depending on a few other small options. (this set up would include stock breaks)

BBk's coming to mind right now would be the Rotora:

http://rallitek.com/romifr4picak.html

or

Ksports

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39862

The BBK's seem so tempting because they do come with stainless steel break lines and after market break pads (and ofcourse the extra bling and flash). The only thing that holds me back is what is the rebuild time on these kits who can rebuild them ect.

 

Please let me know what you think and what advice youd like to give.

The stock LGT brakes are fine for the LGT, so they will be more than good enough for the 2.5i.

 

If you get SS lines and a good set of pads, the LGT brakes will put you through the windshield.

 

Don't waste your money on a BBK, unless it's just for the bling.

What's the LGT rotor size? 12.5 or something? That's more than enough for a casual track day. OEM brakes don't need to be rebuilt unless they are obviously leaking or seized as well.

 

Get some aggressive pads, stainless steel brake lines, and some good brake fluid and hit the track with the LGT setup.

 

If feel that you need the bigger brakes, ask yourself whether it's because you really need it (i.e. have you managed to boil the fluid in your current setup, fade your pads, a combination of both?) or you just like the bling factor. Be honest.

Id go with stock LGT brakes front and rear with SS lines and better pads, atleast that's what my plan is for the future.

well im just asking cause if i am going to upgrade to GT breaks and steal lines and aggresive pads wouldnt i be better off buying a BBK due to price?

If price is a concern, you're going to be cheaper going with the LGT brakes. They *should* fit in your wheels, whereas if you get a BBK, you will likely need new wheels and tires. Not to mention the cost of a BBK will be substantially more than used LGT brakes, especially if you shop around and don't buy the first set that you see.

LGT brakes hold up very well, if anything, you need tires to match your brakes on top of that as well as BETTER brake pads and fluids no matter which way you go with the two kits.. but from my experience, I still havent upgraded to a BBK because the stock GT brakes have some serious thick plates to hold in the heat and if in doubt for me, I can always just pull out my foglights out for the day and replace it with a brake duct kit for the track weekend. Stainless steel lines are just a "feel-good" product, it's not necessary for track days, (besides, unless you have good braking input, then it will be better for a novice driver to just stick with stock brake lines and learn brake modulation, it'll allow some room for any "intense & drastic" input.. maybe later you can put them in for better brake input/feedback).. besides, you can spend that money on the better brake pads.

 

So long as your brake setup can handle the 20 to 25 mins sessions (or however long your sessions are) of a track day, you'll be ok. I doubt you will be carrying THAT much more speed than a GT into a turn (or even the acceleration g-forces to deceleration g-forces transition can't be bigger of a difference than a GT).

 

In any case, be cost effective, a track day/weekend can be expensive enough as it is, so get the parts that meets your needs in performance first, the bling isnt going to save you from the sandtraps.

well im just asking cause if i am going to upgrade to GT breaks and steal lines and aggresive pads wouldnt i be better off buying a BBK due to price?

 

 

You probably STILL need better brake pads in your BBK.. but either way, it's your tires that will give you better stopping distances.

You probably STILL need better brake pads in your BBK.. but either way, it's your tires that will give you better stopping distances.

 

 

The tires are probably the most cost-effective, yet most overlooked, part of a brake setup (heck, for handling and power delivery as well)...listen to this man.

I'd stay with the LGT BRAKES until they BREAK, at which point I'd consider the BBK.

Hey i know Keefe is the man to lisen to.

I know tires are the grippers or the loosers of the race, but im just thinking that to buy the breaks ship them over rebuild them, buy pads and discs and steal lines. I could probably get a BBK for less.

Are you thinking about spending 700-900 on a rebuilt set of just front brakes, or both front and rear because there is a site that sells brand new LGT brake upgrade kits for WRXs for $620 for the front and $630 for the rear.

A side question...How much would a stiffer suspension setup help with braking? Personally I think it helps but I'm not sure on how much.

it definitly helps. it allows your rear brakes to do more since there is less nose dive. A BBk should be the last think you get to help braking. Tires, lines, a stiff suspension and the right pads is more than enough for most applications unless you want bling. Just changing tires and pad will make a world of difference.

I'd stay with the LGT BRAKES until they BREAK, at which point I'd consider the BBK.

 

 

if it they did BREAK, CRACK, or SHATTER, I did still go with the OE brake setup simply because it's cheaper to replace. Stock calipers dont really need rebuilding, and if they did, they are cheap enough to just buy a whole new one instead of buying the rebuild kit from Subaru dealership.

 

Sure, you dont get the looks and bling, but on the track, no one cares how much bling you got, the car will speak for itself on the track, and especially your driving.. people only start care when you start to out-brake them into a turn. Nothing is more aggrevating to me for some guy that shows up in a car full of "goodies" and yet they dont know how to drive the car to the car's maximum potential. It puzzles me at times when I see people running around in BBKs that can stop a semi-truck, but they run on All-season tires on the track, that's just silly.

 

You can save the weight of unsprung weight by getting lighter wheels and possibly tires. Get lighter control arms and links if that really matters, it's beneficial this way instead of trying to save weight from a brake setup.

Hey i know Keefe is the man to lisen to.

I know tires are the grippers or the loosers of the race, but im just thinking that to buy the breaks ship them over rebuild them, buy pads and discs and steal lines. I could probably get a BBK for less.

 

 

like I said, even if you did, the long term of the money spent may be a lot more than you getting a set of just normal GT brakes.

 

Either case, you'll need to get better pads. Although I dont see how you can get a BBK kit cheaper than $300 (slightly used rotors, calipers, caliper brackets and maybe a set of lines and stock brake pads). I think even new, a set of front set of GT brakes is like $500 or so (talk to Hovied or Opie, either one of them can really get you a good deal on NEW set of GT brake kit for your 2.5i)

 

You would literally have to be totally care-free about cracking a set of stock rotors or warping them anyways.. just take a good 1 or 2 cool down laps before coming into the pits, that will make your brakes last a lot longer.

 

Bottom line, it's better to just run off of a stock setup as it is cheaper, you can use that difference in money later for lighter 17" rims and better tires.

A side question...How much would a stiffer suspension setup help with braking? Personally I think it helps but I'm not sure on how much.

 

helps quite a bit.. during weight transfer of braking, the rear of the car lifts, so if the two tires in the rear are not touching the ground, then you just lost 2 contact patches worth of grip. The more weight you have over all of your tires, the better.

 

Thus explains my suspension set up on my car with the Zeal Coilovers I have 8kg springs front/6kg springs rear. My car doesnt head-dive as much as the stock GT, that's for sure.

I will likely get a BBK, but it is more of a feel mod.

 

Stiffer calipers will get you better feel, and you can get a substantial weight savings if you spend the coin. But for sure the best bang for the buck would be tires, suspension, then BBK.

 

That being said, my Bobcats on Toyo T1-Rs are not being used to the limit, except on the odd occasion. Track pads on stock LGT brakes is more then enough to get you through many many track days.

I have rotora BBK's, and I was unaware of the whole rebuild issue. When would these need to be re-built?

I will likely get a BBK, but it is more of a feel mod.

 

Stiffer calipers will get you better feel, and you can get a substantial weight savings if you spend the coin. But for sure the best bang for the buck would be tires, suspension, then BBK.

 

That being said, my Bobcats on Toyo T1-Rs are not being used to the limit, except on the odd occasion. Track pads on stock LGT brakes is more then enough to get you through many many track days.

 

I always wanted to ask...is the stock LGT caliper a one piece (like the FHI 4pots? From the pics I've seen, it looks like they don't have a separate bracket and dustboot; caliper bolts directly to the hub...

Yes, it's one piece

BTW.... it is BRAKE.... not BREAK !!!!

BTW.... it is BRAKE.... not BREAK !!!!

 

 

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Mousepad65-nazi.JPG

I will likely get a BBK, but it is more of a feel mod.

 

Stiffer calipers will get you better feel, and you can get a substantial weight savings if you spend the coin. But for sure the best bang for the buck would be tires, suspension, then BBK.

 

That being said, my Bobcats on Toyo T1-Rs are not being used to the limit, except on the odd occasion. Track pads on stock LGT brakes is more then enough to get you through many many track days.

 

 

Getting a bigger master cylinder can give you a better feel too

 

Eric at Brakeswap and I have been working together to get some good setups for everyone who decides to be very cost effective for HPDE and other leisure track days for the LGT and so far of what I have has been doing very very well.

I have rotora BBK's, and I was unaware of the whole rebuild issue. When would these need to be re-built?

 

it's calipers that are not sealed that you need to be careful of rebuilding (typically even calipers with dust seals need some rebuilding if you overheat the calipers and the rubber boots start to tear apart and possibly the caliper starts to leak the brake fluid or the caliper sucks in air).

 

Wilwood is one of the companies that sell cheaper calipers with no dust seals that probably need a rebuild after every 20,000 miles or so. Im not sure if Wilwood has started to make calipers with dust seals, but you can ask to find out.