For "Da Onkel", reply about 5mt wagons from SOA

Clicked on the link in Unclemat's sig, and sent SOA this message:

 

I just wanted to drop you a line saying that my 2005 Legacy GT Limited Wagon 5speed will be the last Subaru I purchase. Since you no longer offer a manual transmission in the Legacy GT Wagon, I will be unable to purchase a new one when I replace my current vehicle. Looks like you are sending Audi a new owner soon. Thanks,

Mason

 

 

Here is SOA's reply:

 

Dear Mason:

 

Thank you for visiting the Subaru Web site and for your interest in Subaru products. The 2007 Legacy 2.5GT Ltd. Wagon is only offered with an automatic transmission because of the lack of demand and sales of the 2005 Legacy 2.5GT Wagons equipped with a manual transmission. These 2005 models did not sell even remotely close to projection. Upon reviewing the sales of the 2005 Legacy 2.5GT Wagons with manual transmission, it was decided that there was not enough demand to continue offering these models with a manual transmission.

 

Your comments will be noted in our Customer/Dealer Services database. We use such information to track the performance of our products with the intentions of improving upon them. We will also forward your suggestion to our Product Planning Department for their future consideration. In the past, input from our customers has been helpful in initiating changes to our newer models. We hope to continually improve our products and appreciate your feedback.

 

Please be assured that Subaru of America, Inc. has not neglected the demand of our turbo Wagon drivers who prefer manual transmission. In fact, the 2007 Outback 2.5XT Limited Wagon comes standard with the turbo-charged engine and is available with manual transmission. We invite our interested customers to check the Outback 2.5XT models out in person, possibly a couple of times. If you do have the opportunity to view and test drive this model, we would appreciate to hear your comments then too.

 

Thanks for the opportunity to be of service, and we hope you'll soon be driving your new Subaru!

 

Best wishes,

 

John J. Mergen

Subaru of America, Inc.

Customer/Dealer Services Department

Too bad I don't want an OBXT

Again... pawning off demand on other vehicles. Don't like it? suck it up, and buy a WRX wagon, or an Outback XT.

 

"did not sell even remotely close to projection"????

 

What, did they think demand was just going to fall out of the sky? It isn't as though they marketed for it... People barely know that the Legacy exists, let alone as both a sedan AND wagon aside from the Outback, let alone again that it was offered with a turbocharged engine and a manual transmission at the same time in 2005.

 

I am sure John J. Mergen has no power to make decisions. But that is a pathetic spin job on top of someone else's purely beetleheaded decision.

You guys are waaaaay to harsh on what is a simple financial decision. You can't make stuff that people don't buy. I get PM's asking to see if I can get Megan Racing to build x item or y item. Some are good ideas that might sell, others will only cannibalize sales of existing items and other will never sell. No manufacturer can afford to make stuff that will sit on the shelves or on the showroom floor unsold. I think I remember hearing a figure of 500 or so 2005 LGT 5MT wagons being sold. I would call that "not even remotely close to projection" and I could never make a case that a model that sold in those quantities should ever be made again. Just a fact. You could spend money on advertising the 5MT wagon, but even if your quadrupled the sales of that model, the cost of advertising would never make it worth it. Classic example of throwing good money after bad.

 

IwannaSportSedan, you aren't going to like this since you own a GRP LGT, but there is a reason why Reza shipped your car across the country. No one here bought it. GRP was dead last by a wide margin in sales of all the LGT colors. The current color palate might be bland, but it's what people want.

 

We do not own Maybachs or Rolls Royces with insane profit margins where the manufacturer can afford to make a few cars nearly to order. The LGT is intended to be a mass market car and has to be configured in a manner that suits the most people possible to keep costs down. If SOA made them to order like many here want they would either be bankcrupt, or would have to raise prices on their cars signifigantly to account for the increased production costs, at which point the car would likely sell so poorly that they'd still be losing money.

 

I'm not trying to be an apologist, but I think we can all use a dose of reality sometimes. As much as we would like to think of our online community as a microcosm of the buying public, we are not. Most of us are performance enthusiasts, the vast majority of the buying public is not. As the old adage goes: you can make some of the people happy all of the time or all of the people happy some of the time, but you can never make all of the people happy all of the time.

Let's see, checking the online inventory of our local dealership, they have 17 Outbacks in stock and 0 Legacy wagons. It looks to me like Outbacks aren't selling and the Legacy wagons are sold out.

The Outback outsells the Legacy about 3 to 1. The dealer you checked is just stocking what people are buying.

for every legacy i see on the road, sedan or wagon, i see about 5 outbacks. I see more outback sedans than I do legacy anythings.

I was being facetious. The fact remains though, if the dealers don't have the cars on the lot, they can't sell them, which means the sales figures will be low... It is a vicious cycle.

 

Around Boston, I see: Outback wagon > Legacy sedan > Legacy wagon > Outback sedan.

You guys are waaaaay to harsh on what is a simple financial decision.

 

IwannaSportSedan, you aren't going to like this since you own a GRP LGT, but there is a reason why Reza shipped your car across the country. No one here bought it. GRP was dead last by a wide margin in sales of all the LGT colors. The current color palate might be bland, but it's what people want.

 

SNIP> The LGT is intended to be a mass market car and has to be configured in a manner that suits the most people possible to keep costs down. If SOA made them to order like many here want they would either be bankcrupt, or would have to raise prices on their cars signifigantly to account for the increased production costs, at which point the car would likely sell so poorly that they'd still be losing money.

 

I'm not trying to be an apologist, but I think we can all use a dose of reality sometimes. As much as we would like to think of our online community as a microcosm of the buying public, we are not. Most of us are performance enthusiasts, the vast majority of the buying public is not. As the old adage goes: you can make some of the people happy all of the time or all of the people happy some of the time, but you can never make all of the people happy all of the time.

 

I didn't buy a new Legacy GT from Reza. I think you are thinking of someone else.

 

I bought Subastyle's car. Used. SOA didn't get my money, nor a sales figure for my sale. I don't support such beetleheaded decisions just because some bean-counter thought it was a good idea to save a dime. They saved their dime, and lost my dollar. How often do you think that happens?

 

GRP may be last in sales of Legacy colors. It was also GT only, not Legacy or Outback model-line wide. Are you sure your stats were just 05 & 06 GT legacys? Not GRP Outback XTs, or 3.0Rs, and not all Legacys and Outbacks. If it were ALL Legacys and Outbacks, no wonder GRP would be in last place.

That still doesn't mean that they would be wise to discontinue every color other than grey, which they nearly have, save one option for blue.

 

I've said this so many times, I am getting sick of it. I AM NOT, nor is anyone else suggesting that Subaru make unique cars for every customer. But, for pete's sake... they could at least try to sell something to someone. And just saying "it is a function of costs and profitability" is getting to be a thin excuse.

 

They make Legacy wagons with manual transmissions at SIA. Obviously they can afford to have the parts on hand. They just don't sell them within US borders. Evidently Canada buys tons of them, because they still get them. And we all know that canada is the hugest car market in North America.

 

Evidently most other car companies just lose money hand over fist in order to be able to offer cars in other colors than gray. How crazy must they be.

Thanks for posting it. I would really hope they realize they mistake. But without some changes in SOA's management/marketing - I doubt it. If all of the sudden (with proper marketing) it started to sell well - the guy who pulled it from the market would be hosed. This is a corporation with all it's games. And it's Jap-American corporation which makes all these games even more convoluted - I work for a Japanese company here in the U.S. and have quite an idea how messed up it can be.

 

Now the question is - are the rumors of killing Legacy Wagon altogether for MY2008 true? It's not unlikely given they offer it with few bland color choices, only "limited" (how stupid it is) and only auto. Self-fulling propehecy, vicious circle - as it had been named here.

 

Major problem Subaru has is lack of identity. They can't decide on a consistent market strategy. They even can't decide on the grille!! In 2005 they wanted to go after Audi and others offering Legacy - poor man's performance sedan and wagon. Given the refinment and killer bang for the buck it was excellent idea... just executed terribly. No marketing, no inventory, no sales.

 

It is truly ironic that Legacy Wagon is their FLAGSHIP car around the world. Wagons to sedan ratio is like 10 to 1 in Japan. I believe in Europe it's not far different.

 

Effect is, some U.S. management retared prick has just proven U.S. market is different. Not hard to prove you are right that something does not sell, if you don't offer it for sale, really.

 

As slim the chances of reving manual LGT wagon might be - we still should let them know.

You guys are waaaaay to harsh on what is a simple financial decision. You can't make stuff that people don't buy.

 

We can't repeat it enough - SOA/SIA still makes Legacy GT wagon manual in Indiana for Canadian (and I presume now also Mexican) market.

 

Is it so hard to sell car that is already manufactured, went thru all certification processes, etc???

 

It is PLAIN retarded decision. If not for anything, for the fact alone, how hot seller WRX wagon was/is (including manual transmission which they still offer in WRX wagon) - WRX appeared on the market only 4 years ago. It is about time for these, mostly young WRX buyers, to graduate for bigger and more serious cars. Outback XT is not an upgrade for WRX owner!!! It is so obvious.

What kills me is the idea that the Outback is a model. I'm a parts guy, and the lie pisses me off. It's not a body style, it's a trim level.

 

Do these people even know what cars are? I don't know any "turbo Wagon drivers who prefer manual transmission." I'm not married to turbos. I need a wagon's capacity, but I'm a driver! There isn't a transmission out there that can anticipate what I'm going to do. Only I can, so only a manual is acceptable to me.

 

I'm not asking fot the lots to be stuffed with them or the commercials to focus on them, I just want to be able to buy one. I'll sign the papers and complete the sale before it's ordered. I just want to be able to get what I want: power, space and AWD. Eventually my car is going to need replacing. I'll call the Subaru dealer before I drive to the Audi store, but I apparently shouldn't hold my breath.

 

After clicking "get a quote" on SOA's website, I got calls from several salesmen. there were 5 or 6 pieces of shit who said "I don't have the car you're looking for, but I have several to choose from. Please come by and I'm sure you'll find something you'll like." Two others said "I don't have what you want, but I can get it." Another said "There's only one in the state, and I've got it." John J. Mergen must have worked at a dealer in NH back in 05.

 

Boostjunkie- Head over to http://www.subaru.ca/. Pick out a nice GT wagon with a manual. Remember that they build them here but won't sell them here. I'm not asking for them to build something special for me, I just want to be able to buy it here. If I wanted a new one right now, I'd have to go north and then import it back to the US, where it came from in the first place.

 

Do they sell more with manuals in Canada than they did in the US? I don't think so. It seems Subaru of Canada just doesn't hire idiots like Mergen. Maybe their Customer/Dealer Services Department actually cares about the customers up there.

Also, we still run into the "chicken and egg" syndrome. If they don't stock the vehicles on the lots, they won't sell. They say if they don't sell, they won't stock the lots with them.

 

I also agree that it's absurd to continue to offer the Outback XT wagon with manual trans, yet not offer it in the exact same vehicle sans cladding & highrider suspension - aka the Legacy wagon.

I knew I'd catch heat for my post. You guys can kill me all you want, but I think I stated some very obvious facts. The US market doesn't buy wagons. You don't see a Camry wagon, Accord wagon or wagon versions of most other midsize sedans. I personally like wagons alot, but the fact of the matter is that wagons don't sell well here. Most buyers needing more people/stuff hauling space end up buying minivans or SUV/trucks. I think it's silly but that's the way it is. Would most people be better off in a better performing, better handling, more fuel efficient wagon than a van/SUV/truck? Sure they would be, but that doesn't mean they will buy them.

 

Car makers are not in business to dictate what people will buy. They simply hope to offer products that people will want to buy. SOA offered a 5MT wagon. We didn't buy it. Now you guys want to pillory them for our buying decisions

 

As for the Legacy 5MT wagon being available in Canada, that is inconsequential. SOA won't bring 'em here if all they are going to do is sit on the lot. Sure they can build them, but unsold cars cost both the manufacturer and dealers money. Unless drivetrain/model EPA certification issues make it unfeasable, perhaps they should offer the car by order only, but that takes us back to the chicken or egg dilema. Heck for the guys saying that SOA should offer the 5MT wagon in the US since it's in Canada, if you want it so much make a trip across the border and buy one!

 

On a side note, I do find it odd that the OBXT 5MT avoided the axe. You'd think that enthusiast wagon buyers would opt for the LGT wagon in a 5MT versus the OB... but I guess the numbers dictated otherwise.

What I dont understand is why they cant just have it a special order item ... hell .. they could even charge extra if they were smart.(offer a 6mt for $1000) I am sure that the enthusiest that is willing to "stir his own" would be willing to wait for it from the factory.

 

It is clear, from the fact that they are available in Canada and made in the factory in the US, that they have the tooling and the production line to offer this. No examples would need to even "sit on the lot".

 

This isnt buissness, its ignorance. It COULD be a zero cost exercise for SOA, or even perhaps a profitable one if they thought it through.

 

But hey ... what do I know ....

One more thing ....

 

What I dont think that SOA seems to realize is that your product line isnt always about profitability ... its also about marketing.

 

The 5mt GT wagon offers 'flagship' performance numbers that are what make these cars easily marketable. I dont know how many people I have taken for a ride in my car and they are blown away with the performance but the first question they ask is "can you get this in an auto?" What draws them in the performance, real or percieved, of the 5mt even though most will buy the auto.

 

Looking at the used market (because I dont have access to new data), the number of Audi S4 that are AUTO outway the Manuals 3 to 1. BUT, how many test were written about the Auto, How many performance test were conducted and 0-60 times quoted, How many collumn inches in magazines and newpapers waxed lyrical about the amazing AUTO Audi S4 ????? ....... ZERO

 

SOA dont have to sell 1000's of them to justify the exsistance. They just need to know how to market products that are clearly head and shoulders above the oppostition. Its how you build a brand and a reputation.

<--- is pissed at SOA about this entire deal

 

'05 LGT-W "TR" FOREVER DAMNIT!!!

+1 on being able to order one for the US.

? though. Does SOA need to sell a certain number of each trim level to get emissions certified, or just total model certification?

LGT-W=LGT-S=OBXT, or LGT-W by itself, LGT-S by itself, etc...

 

I'm not in the market anytime soon, so I really don't care right now. I have a turbo wagon 5 speed:)

The US market doesn't buy wagons. You don't see a Camry wagon, Accord wagon or wagon versions of most other midsize sedans. I personally like wagons alot, but the fact of the matter is that wagons don't sell well here.

Why does the OB wagon outsell the OB sedan and Legacy sedan if the US market doesn't want wagons?

it's a fact: americans don't buy wagons. honda and toyota had them for the most part of the early 90's and discontinued the wagons doring the mid 90's because no one would buy them. as far as i know only audi/subaru/volvo/vw offers wagons for a price that's somewhat acceptable, and most of those end up being automatic just like their sedans. I don't remeber last time i drove a manual audi or VW, let alone a wagon. there is not enough demand for a manual wagon, with the exception of a few enthusiasts here on the board, and some of the other boards. Americans are lazy and expect the cars to shift for them

Why does the OB wagon outsell the OB sedan and Legacy sedan if the US market doesn't want wagons?

 

because it's jacked up and most buyers think of it as an SUV alternative.

One more thing ....

 

What I dont think that SOA seems to realize is that your product line isnt always about profitability ... its also about marketing.

 

How many collumn inches in magazines and newpapers waxed lyrical about the amazing AUTO Audi S4 ????? ....... ZERO

 

SOA dont have to sell 1000's of them to justify the exsistance. They just need to know how to market products that are clearly head and shoulders above the oppostition. Its how you build a brand and a reputation.

 

You hit the nail in the head. It's not just about pure sales number per trim. SOA is governed by beancounters who don't understand that.

it's a fact: americans don't buy wagons. honda and toyota had them for the most part of the early 90's and discontinued the wagons doring the mid 90's because no one would buy them. as far as i know only audi/subaru/volvo/vw offers wagons for a price that's somewhat acceptable, and most of those end up being automatic just like their sedans. I don't remeber last time i drove a manual audi or VW, let alone a wagon. there is not enough demand for a manual wagon, with the exception of a few enthusiasts here on the board, and some of the other boards. Americans are lazy and expect the cars to shift for them

 

Nearly all euro brands sell wagons with manuals right here in the USA: BMW, Volvo, Audi, VW. I believe MB is the only exception.

because it's jacked up and most buyers think of it as an SUV alternative.

 

True. And how retarded that is, given the awful borderline lethal suspension.

 

In fact, I despise SOA decision to jack it up, soften the suspension (comapred to prev. generation OB). The car got much less safe that it could be, and it's simply unethical to sell something like this just because they wanted to get some CAFE credits for selling it as a "light truck".

Nearly all euro brands sell wagons with manuals right here in the USA: BMW, Volvo, Audi, VW. I believe MB is the only exception.

 

Auto correction:

 

VW: off the list, no more manual Passat or Jetta wagon.

 

Audi: only A4/S4 - too small

 

Volvo: surprisingly both V70R and V70 available in manual.

 

BMW: both 3 series snd 5 series wagon manuals available (also AWD) - hmmm 530ix wagon, my next car?

IwannaSportSedan, you aren't going to like this since you own a GRP LGT, but there is a reason why Reza shipped your car across the country. No one here bought it. GRP was dead last by a wide margin in sales of all the LGT colors. The current color palate might be bland, but it's what people want.

 

I bought that car off of Reza because there were absolutely no GRP's left on this side of the Mississippi meeting my specs. GRP and OBP were the only color LGT I would consider and the low price Reza offered was icing on the cake. I shipped the car across the country myself becuase its what I wanted. It's not like he needed to get rid of it so bad that he shipped it himself. So in this case, the color selection (among other things) was worth the $1,300 premium I paid to get it here.

 

Facts > Fiction