2015 3.6r CVT Fluid

Hi All,

I have a CVT Fluid Change scheduled next week at AWD Auto in Kirkland WA.

I have searched around quite a bit to make sure I get the right fluid since the 3.6r has the high torque cvt.

From what I can tell, the 3.6r takes the Orange flavored cvt fluid. However, AWD Auto stated that they are using the Blue flavored stuff (SOA635304).

I found this on NASOIC:

Does anyone have any opinion or insight? I would assume that there is no substitute for the correct fluid type. Thanks.

I found this on NASOIC:

BLUE - CVTF-C30 - Has higher viscosity than CVTF-II

Stock codes: SOA427V1600, SOA868V9245

GREEN - CVTF-II - Lower viscosity than C30, eventually replacement for G1, G2 CVT fluids (EXCEPT HIGH TORQUE)

Stock codes: SOA427V1610, SOA427V1600, SOA868V9245

ORANGE - High Torque - Different than both of the above

Stock code: SOA748V0200

I can't confirm the SOA part numbers, but the rest of that information is correct. See the attachment, from Subaru training materials.

CVT_Fluid_Reference.pdf

You need the high torque fluid. It has a different specification otherwise they would just use the same fluid in everything.

Why are you changing the fluid?

Thanks for the quick replies.

Changing the fluid because it has 65k and I am the second owner. Also, I drive it pretty hard. I understand you are supposed to change at 100k, but I figure it won't hurt anything to do it early.

Thanks for the quick replies.

 

Changing the fluid because it has 65k and I am the second owner. Also, I drive it pretty hard. I understand you are supposed to change at 100k, but I figure it won't hurt anything to do it early.

Thats good. Good to be proactive. I was going to change the fluid on my wife's car's CVT but then I saw the price per quart and the capacity that the CVT holds and decided to do it later.

AWD Auto is charging $230 for parts & labor for the cvt service - includes 8 units (quarts?) of cvt fluid. I have an email thread going with them about which fluid - they are very responsive and answer all my questions. Thanks for that reference document ammcinnis, I shared that with the tech, we'll see what they say.

I dont know who AWD auto is but from what I remember, the FSM states the CVT capacity is 12.X qts. The list price for CVT fluid is $15.xx. So we're talking about $200 just in fluid alone.

In this case, I sure as heck wouldnt put anything other than the exact OEM recommended fluid in the CVT.

Just for the record, the FSM calls for CVT fluid change at 30K miles when driven under 'harsh conditions'.

I can't find that anywhere in the FSM. Can you provide a citation?

On the other hand, my 2015 Legacy/Outback Warranty & Maintenance Guide (pp. 29-31) does not specify CVT fluid replacement except:

4. When the vehicle is frequently operated under severe driving conditions**,

(If applicable) CVT fluid replacement should be performed every 24,855

miles (40,000 km).

g. Repeated trailer towing.

(Maintenance Items 1, 2, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 and 18)

@ Ronin3.6r - I did get an estimate from Walker Renton Subaru ($350). However, their communication didn't inspire a lot of confidence. They didn't answer emails, and when I called the Service Rep, she insisted that I didn't have a CVT. After some back & forth, I finally got a quote. I may ping some other dealers in the area.

@ Too40gawlf - thanks for update on capacity, will take that up with AWD Auto.

I can't find that anywhere in the FSM. Can you provide a citation?

 

On the other hand, my 2015 Legacy/Outback Warranty & Maintenance Guide (pp. 29-31) does not specify CVT fluid replacement except:

... with the definition of "severe driving conditions" limited to:

Right, I read this over on the outback bulletin board also, it seems to be a hot topic. Some people say it’s lifetime fluid, some people say it needs to get changed. My thought is that if you haven’t changed it and you’re close to 100,000 miles, you probably shouldn’t because you will stir up any gunk in the tank. I’m also one of the people affected by the warranty extension for the original CVT, so I don’t really have anything to worry about as I intend to be in a new car and out of of this car before it hits 100,000 miles. I also paddle shift like crazy to save my brakes. Lol.

My dealership nearby actually tried to convince me that I did not need to have this done, but that was over year ago before the warranty extension happened. It is possible that they have a different policy now. I believe they quoted me somewhere around $230 for the service, but due to the mechanics of the transmission, you’re only going to get about half of the fluid out. I don’t believe they’re going to do a transmission flush. Just a drain and fill, so if you take that fluid that seven years old or eight years old with 75,000 miles on it and you drain about half and put a new fluid, you still have half of that fluid being 75,000 miles.

Unless they do something different? Maybe there’s a TSB out for it.

Update from AWD Auto. They called SOA and confirmed that the 3.6r gets the orange flavor.

That’s good, I would also inquire as to if they’re just doing a drain and fill or if they’re actually going to flush the transmission fluid. Again, only half of your fluid would get drained so I don’t know what that’s accomplishing in the grand scheme of things.

Per the owners manual, my understanding is only that the CVT fluid needs to get changed if you have been towing. I don’t think driving hard really has anything to do with it. Although, I have heard that heat will degrade the fluid, but I also think that the outback models have a cooler built-in. I don’t think the legacy has a transmission cooler built-in.

Unfortunately, Subaru put all of their maintenance schedule stuff into that separate warranty and maintenance booklet. I can’t seem to find this online, even in owner resources. I only have the paper copy that came with my car, which is great for my 2011 outback, but doesn’t help me see with the new maintenance is for new vehicles.

Sorry if anything looks weird, I used Siri to dictate this post

I can't find that anywhere in the FSM. Can you provide a citation?

 

On the other hand, my 2015 Legacy/Outback Warranty & Maintenance Guide (pp. 29-31) does not specify CVT fluid replacement except:

... with the definition of "severe driving conditions" limited to:

So I stand corrected - the interval for 'severe conditions' is in fact 25k miles. And the same text you quoted is also stated on PM-5 of the FSM:

CVTF-FSM by emanookian, on Flickr

Right, I read this over on the outback bulletin board also, it seems to be a hot topic. Some people say it’s lifetime fluid, some people say it needs to get changed. My thought is that if you haven’t changed it and you’re close to 100,000 miles, you probably shouldn’t because you will stir up any gunk in the tank. I’m also one of the people affected by the warranty extension for the original CVT, so I don’t really have anything to worry about as I intend to be in a new car and out of of this car before it hits 100,000 miles. I also paddle shift like crazy to save my brakes. Lol.

 

My dealership nearby actually tried to convince me that I did not need to have this done, but that was over year ago before the warranty extension happened. It is possible that they have a different policy now. I believe they quoted me somewhere around $230 for the service, but due to the mechanics of the transmission, you’re only going to get about half of the fluid out. I don’t believe they’re going to do a transmission flush. Just a drain and fill, so if you take that fluid that seven years old or eight years old with 75,000 miles on it and you drain about half and put a new fluid, you still have half of that fluid being 75,000 miles.

 

Unless they do something different? Maybe there’s a TSB out for it.

 

 

 

That’s good, I would also inquire as to if they’re just doing a drain and fill or if they’re actually going to flush the transmission fluid. Again, only half of your fluid would get drained so I don’t know what that’s accomplishing in the grand scheme of things.

 

Per the owners manual, my understanding is only that the CVT fluid needs to get changed if you have been towing. I don’t think driving hard really has anything to do with it. Although, I have heard that heat will degrade the fluid, but I also think that the outback models have a cooler built-in. I don’t think the legacy has a transmission cooler built-in.

 

Unfortunately, Subaru put all of their maintenance schedule stuff into that separate warranty and maintenance booklet. I can’t seem to find this online, even in owner resources. I only have the paper copy that came with my car, which is great for my 2011 outback, but doesn’t help me see with the new maintenance is for new vehicles.

 

Sorry if anything looks weird, I used Siri to dictate this post

I did inquire about drain & fill vs flush. The AWD Auto tech said:

I guess that means flush?

Also, I understand that the fluid must be at a certain temperature when doing the fill because the volume is different at different temps.

As someone that was close to doing the DIY for my Outback's CVTF, I don't think that's 100% accurate. There's a fill bolt, and drain bolt, I believe. And someone found that you can also put fluid in via one of the vents. Maybe this is particular to my specific CVT model in my 2.5 from 2011 - NOT the HT variant - and I don't want to spread misinformation.

Just saying, it doesn't "seem" to be hard to D&F, but yes, you're right, typically you need the SST to make sure the temperature is within tolerance.

I've also heard of people doing "fluid out cold = fluid in cold" to keep the volumes appropriate. Use with caution. Just make sure this shop has your back if it grenades in a few thousand miles. Suggest you inquire about warranty-stuff if they do it.

And just again, per your last post - driving hard doesn't mean you're towing a trailer. So, I don't know this is warranty.

@Ammcinnis - Thanks for the clarification and knowledge! 3.6 also only has 1 on the Legacy too, regardless of engine trim?

Anything that's declared to be "lifetime" in terms of fluids is based on an average "lifetime" of a vehicle of about 100 000 km, which is about 60k miles.

This is all in the designed obsolescence that all manufacturers work on today.

Anything that's declared to be "lifetime" in terms of fluids is based on an average "lifetime" of a vehicle of about 100 000 km, which is about 60k miles.

 

This is all in the designed obsolescence that all manufacturers work on today.

I believe that if your statistic was accurate we would have seen a multitude of CVT failures by this point. Domestically the CVT has been around almost 10 years here, and they’re already on their second variant of CVTF.

If the first variant was ineffective I would think the service department would be upwelling the crap out of me to try to do a drain and fill to out the new CVTF in.

I don’t disagree with your comment about “lifetime” not meaning forever, but 60k miles seems abysmally low. There are people with over 200k (Outback Forums) on the original fluid.

... the same text you quoted is also stated on PM-5 of the FSM ...

Thanks. That one's on me. I overlooked the (obvious) PM chapter of the FSM. Good to find the same information in two places, though.

FWIW, I do agree that a "lifetime fill" of CVT fluid is probably not realistic, if by "lifetime" you mean more than 100,000 miles or 10 years. (In our household, anything with less than 100,000 miles on it is the "new car.") There's anecdotal evidence that the Legacy/Outback CVT controller even maintains a "% fluid life used/remaining" variable ... probably based on run time and fluid temperature ... but I've never seen it documented anywhere in Subaru technical literature.

I dont know who AWD auto is but from what I remember, the FSM states the CVT capacity is 12.X qts. The list price for CVT fluid is $15.xx. So we're talking about $200 just in fluid alone.

 

In this case, I sure as heck wouldnt put anything other than the exact OEM recommended fluid in the CVT.

The fluid capacity is 12ish quarts but if you do a drain and fill you will have stuck in the transmission assembly itself (torque converter, valve body, etc) and you’ll only get about half out. That’s why I am interested if that is a drain or flush. Otherwise you still have half old fluid.

Law of diminishing returns... 1/2, then 1/4, then 1/8, 1/16, etc.

There's a check bolt, fill bolt, and drain bolt, I believe.

That's correct for the front differential, not for the CVT. The CVT has only 1) a drain plug and 2) a check/fill plug.

3.6 also only has 1 [CVT fluid cooler] on the Legacy too, regardless of engine trim?

I did inquire about drain & fill vs flush. The AWD Auto tech said:

"The CVT service is a drain and fill. It is a bit more complicated however, as they must be pumped in from the bottom, and while monitoring fluid level with a scan tool, as there is no dipstick, or topside fill point anymore."

Yes, service is "drain and fill," and there is no dipstick, but the rest of this is just flat wrong. Being generous, perhaps by "pumped in from the bottom" they just mean "from below" ... i.e. that the CVT can't conveniently be filled from the engine compartment. The only thing a scan tool would be used for is to verify correct CVT fluid temperature, since there is no CVT fluid level sensor to monitor.

For the CVT there is 1) a drain plug and 2) a check/fill plug. Per the FSM, correct fluid level is the bottom of the fill plug opening, at a fluid temperature of 95 to 113 degrees F. Amazingly enough, drain is accomplished through the drain plug, and fill is performed through the check/fill plug. The entire procedure is described in the FSM.

My unsolicited opinion: Assuming you've quoted AWD Auto correctly, I don't think I would allow them anywhere near my CVT. Too much misinformation. But that's just me.

Yes, there is no dipstick, but the rest of this is just flat wrong.

 

For the CVT there is 1) a drain plug and 2) a check/fill plug. Per the FSM, correct fluid level (with warm fluid ... ~100 degrees F) is the bottom of the fill plug. Amazingly enough, drain is through the drain plug, and fill is performed through the check/fill plug. The entire procedure is described in the FSM.

 

My unsolicited opinion: Based on the misinformation you've posted here, I wouldn't let AWD Auto near my CVT.

Once again thanks for fixing my incorrect information.

That being said the burning question is what have you done with your Subaru? Do you/did you change the CVTF or just let it ride?

I could see it being a part of the 60k service. 30k seems overkill. Any chance you could do a quick sweep of the STIS for a TSB or training information regarding fluid interval revisements if you still had access?