Am I turning into an old man? (Thinking about selling the LGT for ...)

2007 Camry Hybrid. Yes, that's right ... an old hippie man, tree-huggin' hybrid. I'm already on a waiting list, but it's a list without attached obligations.

 

I love the speed, but it's gotten me into so much trouble over the past year (three tickets, all of which I've subsequently gotten out of) that I'm starting to question the wisdom of a chump like myself owning a car with this much power. Another thing is that since I've moved to the city and my work commute is completely over surface streets, I'm getting about 15-16mpg, even when I'm driving like a grandpa. Paying $46 to fill up (that number goes up each time I visit the gas station) after every 225 miles is getting old really fast. The novelty of getting revved on by every forking Civic and Integra in the city wore off in a big hurry when I realized that each time I mashed the gas, dollar bills went flying out of my pocket ... although I have to admit, I was annoyed enough yesterday morning that I pulled a 5500rpm launch on this pimply kid in a farting Civic hatch, and was through three stop lights before he had even reached the first one.

 

Anyway, all by way of saying, am I alone in thinking like this? I almost feel like going the Camry Hybrid route is a tacit admission that I want to grow up. The interior seems a lot more tightly assembled and with better materials than the LGT ... after 20,500 miles, my 2005 LGT rattles more than my mother's 1998 Volvo S70 with 110,000 miles. Any thoughts for or against?

 

(FWIW, journalists and insiders that have actually tested the TCH instead of just parroting Toyota's numbers have measured its 0-60 in the 7.3-7.6s range, 1/4 in 15.6-16.0, and real life combined gas mileage to be around 36-39mpg, so it's not as much of a slug and fuel optimist as you might suspect. Toyota's numbers are 8.9s 0-60, 43/37mpg city/hwy.)

Yes you are

you gotta do what you've gotta do, right?

 

FOr me though, the enjoyment I get out of driving the car is worth way more to me than saving a few dollars on gas. Plus, i'm in no hurry to loose all the money on trading in a year old car for another.

I had similar thoughts. I do a lot of stop and go city driving, so a hybrid would be good for me, and other than the grill, the new Camry is a pretty sharp looking car. My LGT gas mileage is horrendous.

But, the LGT is also a lot of fun to drive (when I get the chance). I'm not looking to trade this car in any time soon. But if I was in the market for a car right now, I'd seriously consider the Camry hybrid.

Well... with gas prices going up AGAIN (over $3 easy here in Los Angeles for 91 octane) I can't blame you.

 

If Subaru ever makes a hybrid LGT... I'm so there

Dingle, there's a good editorial in the latest CAR that talks about hybrids and how they are viewed. I agree with the opinion expressed that people should be more focussed on diesels. Hybrids are poor on the highway. Also, the Prius will need a full battery replacement package after ~ 8 yrs costing $3k or so - so those cars will probably be mostly junked after only 8 yrs. The RX hybrid is worse - only 5 years, but probably more owners will cough up the dough for that.

 

Hybrids aren't all that great compared to diesels.

 

But if that's what you really want, good luck with it and I hope you enjoy it.

I like the looks of the new Camrys. I've seen two the past few days, today a silver one flew by me on the highway. (I was in work truck) The car makes a lot of sense in many ways. The reliability is top notch, the fuel mileage is excellent and the resale value is high. It's certainly a car I would consider if I was in the market. I'm sure I would miss the AWD and FUN factor of the LGT though, not to mention having something that is somewhat unique. And yes you're getting old.

I too seem to be turning into an old man, (happens to everyone eventually) since I can see where you're coming from. I've been kicking around the idea of something more fuel efficient, premium fuel is creeping up to $3/gal and I figure will be up to 3.50 by summer (I see you're in the Seattle area as well). Since I drive 30K + miles per year, it's a big expense. If I could, I'd use my LGT as a highway trip car and have something else for commuting. Trouble is, every time I crunch the numbers, I figure I'm better off just keeping the LGT as my only car. I certainly enjoy driving it, but I'm with ya on the rattles. If I were to get a new Camry, I'd probably look into the 4 cyl/5 speed SE version, so I could still have a little fun.

The money you THINK your saving on gas.... is really going to pay for the OUTRAGOUS price of the car.

 

my $.02

The money you THINK your saving on gas.... is really going to pay for the OUTRAGOUS price of the car.

 

my $.02

 

Yeah, I even contemplated a used motorcycle for commuting and it still worked out that it would take like 6 years before it paid for itself. Better off just keeping the LGT as my only vehicle.

You're gonna have to drive a ton of miles to make a return on that investment. Assuming the car even lasts long enough for you to reach a break even point. FWIW - A Toyota hybrid passed me doing around 80 on the highway last week - sounded like it was about to explode.

The other unaswered question about the hybrids is what happens when the battery croaks.

 

I'd think LGT kind o guys would buy a motorcycle....

 

I've been looking for a Geo Metro LSi for parking convenience. They get pretty absurd mpg in the city as well.

The MPG difference is more than double, that's better than I've ever seen.

 

The math can be simple. How much do you drive per year divided by either 15 MPG and 36 MPG(??). The difference is gas savings then, multiply by the price per gallon. At $3.00, I came to about $1750 per year. So, you'll breakeven in about 3 years assuming a $6 K diffeence between a Hybrid and normal engine. The lower monthly cash flow will make you feel better.

 

I traded from a Camry (6 cyl), Legacy mileage sucks.

I don't know where or how you drive. But in LA stop and traffic I get about 20mpg or about 300+ before the gas light comes on. The money you save on gas compared to the hybrid mark-up will take you about 4 yrs to make up. that's no with the amout you my be upside down. Why not get a smaller car like the Honda fit or the Yaris the echo replacement. They are @15K and get 30 mpg or better?

how many people here actually get 15mpg though??!!!

 

i might drive a little more conservitavely than some, but i'm no grandma behind the wheel either and I easily get 23mpg, usually closer to 25mpg.

 

 

 

 

i think going easier on the pedal and driving less is a smarter idea, and will save you more money than going out and buying a new car at hybrid permium prices.

You're gonna have to drive a ton of miles to make a return on that investment. Assuming the car even lasts long enough for you to reach a break even point. FWIW - A Toyota hybrid passed me doing around 80 on the highway last week - sounded like it was about to explode.

 

I'll also guarantee you that at 80 he/she was not getting the claimed fuel economy form the car either.

 

A coworker and I drove a Prius to Kansas City, for a meeting, and we averaged 80 up and back. The car was lucky to get 35mpg at that speed, and it was not happy about going that fast at all. Even going 65-70 the best we observed was 44mpg, hell a 330i I took on the same trip a couple of weeks later and averaged the same fuel economy at the same speed as we got in the Prius. The 330i is a hell of alot more fun than a Prius.

Well, the price isn't so outrageous. Our local dealer is selling them at MSRP (which is unusual given that it's so highly sought after), and I'm 15th on the waiting list so it shouldn't be all that long. With leather, navigation, and sunroof, the total price will be $29200 according to the dealer.

 

While it's true that I won't be making up the price difference in gas savings any time soon (and I have no illusions about this), the change in my monthly outlay goes down by quite a bit after you factor in insurance costs. Here's how it breaks down:

 

LGT monthly payment: $380

LGT insurance, per month: $125

LGT fuel costs (last month): $464

Total: $969 per month

 

TCH monthly payment: $430 (roughly)

TCH insurance, per month: $90

TCH fuel costs (same usage as above): $249

Total: $769 per month

 

I am slightly ahead in payments, so I don't have to really worry about having to carry over anything from LGT's loan.

 

Also consider that at least for the forseeable future, the resale value of the TCH will likely be much better than that of the LGT ... it's 1) a Toyota, and 2) a hybrid. So by the time I turn around sell the car in 3 or 4 years, I will likely get back far more of my initial outlay with the TCH than if I sat on the LGT for that long. I won't be losing all that much on my LGT if I sold it now as I got it for a ridiculous deal (at market value, I'll probably be have lost about $1,000 in depreciation from purchase price after a year and 20,500 miles of use).

 

I dunno, I'm still thinking hard about it. There's plenty of time for me to make up my mind ... so let the debate continue.

Or you could wait around for the 08 or 09 Hybrid Legacy. Although the new camry is a fine looking vehicle, much snazzier than the one it repalces.

Well, for me - I refuse to go hybrid. I don't care what it offers. There only way I'd consider it if it was the same model and it was offered in hybrid form with the same performance. Otherwise, I could care less.

 

I want something I'll enjoy owning, not something that's only point is to save me a few bucks at the pump.

It should also be noted that the Prius and TCH are pretty different animals. I believe it was Motor Trend that said that the TCH makes the Prius feel, drive, and look a toy. They got 36mpg on a cross-country trip averaging 75mph. This is how I felt when I compared the Prius and Camry XLE, which is essentially what the TCH is with the exception of the engine.

how many people here actually get 15mpg though??!!!

 

i might drive a little more conservitavely than some, but i'm no grandma behind the wheel either and I easily get 23mpg, usually closer to 25mpg.

 

 

Seriously!

After driving the car for almost 2 years now, i don't htink i have ever gotten below 20, unless i had the pedal to the floor at EVERY opportunity...aka the first month i had it.

 

I commute highway everday and keep a solid range of 25-27 and thats usually moving around 70-80.

Sure you can buy a hybrid, but you would have to pay extra for that technology up front. Good/bad??

It would take you a long time even with gas at the stupid price it is to break even on your investment in the 'brid power. :iam:Great idea if you are a tree hugger, but from a financials, I'd say not such a hot deal after all. Coolest thing is to buy a 'brid and use it as a "company" car and right off the car in your taxes. The added weight of the batteries don't help handling either.

If you plan to trade the 'brid before the batteries need replacing, then it isn't a bad deal I guess. But if you keep it. Battery replacement cost may out weigh the money you saved on gas. Just thinking out of the tank so to speak. Camry is a nice car though. Finally Toyota gave the Camry guts and a personality. The LGT is still a better and proven car though. How safe is the new Camry?? Legacy's are Gold in all catagories according to the IIHS.org. Good luck in your choice and enjoy.

Jeez, I almost forgot to think about the $2300 tax credit ... that has a little weight as well. The difference in price after that credit between my LGT on the used market and the TCH at MSRP is about $6500. More importantly, the difference between the hybrid and 4-cylinder Camry at the same equipment level is a whopping $855 at MSRP. Considering that the hybrid is much faster than the 4-cylinder version and gets far better fuel mileage, the hybrid premium doesn't seem to be as big as it used to be ...

Well... with gas prices going up AGAIN (over $3 easy here in Los Angeles for 91 octane) I can't blame you.

 

If Subaru ever makes a hybrid LGT... I'm so there

 

 

Vancouver city is hosing us for $1.19 PER LITRE this week for 91 Octane!

 

 

The turbonator is looking better and better these days...

In the most recent IEEE Spectrum magazine, they talk about hybrid vehicles. Subaru is supposed to release the hybrid version of a Legacy in Japan in 2007. The prototype vehicle features a 2.0L turbocharged engine with an electric motor attached to the transmission to increase torque. The hybrid technology adds about 250 lbs.