Guest Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 I am about to install the KW coilovers on my wagon. Is rear rubber spring seat supposed to be used? It looks like I could cram it between the supplied metal seat and rear mount (top hat)... but it looks awkard. It also looks awkard if top hat alone is used.... Here is link to praedet's pic where he did not use the rubber seat: http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e257/praedet/Suspension/InstallRearCoil-overReadytoGo.jpg Here is link to DMS coilover install where the rubber seat is used: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44478 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 attaching pics just in case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsme Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 I followed what praedet's install. I left the rubber seats off(I kepted them just in case. ). I guess Paul would know best. I have not had any problems so far. Racer X FMIC for '05-'09 LGTs, '08+ WRX and '10+ LGT,'14+ FXT, and '15+ WRX TMIC Racerxengineering.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 ok, never mind... RTFM. My paper manual was missing the page with rear coilover picutre, but I found it online: http://www.kw-gmbh.de/kw_upload/Einbau/eah68645006.pdf NO RUBBER SEAT! Yay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 By the way, since we are talking about top hats I have also dillema which front top hats to use. Have both USDM and JDM top hats. Both supposedly work with KWs, however the manual shows JDM ones in the picture. With JDM, the rod protrudes making use of dust caps impossible. With USDM, if the spacer is used (the spacer btw, is identical to the spacer on stock USDM suspension, it is NOT used on JDM suspensions), the dust cap can be used. JDM top hats feels much more solid (is also noticeably heavier) - the bearing is really beefy compared to wimpy bearing in the USDM top hat. I am just wondering if USDM top hat will be softer (thus more comfy ride) at the expense of less sharp turn-in. This is an unique dillema, as this is the only suspension I know of that can be used with either style of top hats.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGT Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Unclemat, If it works with both tophats (spacer min/out), is there a height difference, and with which one car will sit higher? I'm considering KW's, but don't like max. height adjustment giving you only two fingers gap. BobR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostjunkie Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 I'm not Unclemat, but the limiting factor for your ride height is going to be the rear, not the front. You can setup the car to be higher, but it will be outside the recommended range from KW. While it is probably ok to run higher than the max recommended height, it does put the product outside of it's designed use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Assembled them today, bit of a pain. Decided to use USDM top hats, their advantage being that dust caps on the top hats can be used. On JDM top hats they won't fit (the rod protrudes too far out). By the way I got puzzled by these removable collars on the piston. In fact one was missing (or I lost it. ). I removed them as otherwise the top hat would not seat properly. Boost, I think you mentioned they are to be removed when used with USDM top hats but retained with JDM ones. This is bit of a puzzle, because I don't see how JDM one would fit with it either. I guess I should have taken some pics along the way, would be easier to show than to describe.... the stuff goes like this (from top to bottom) nut top hat spacer top spring seat (perch) collar bump stop w/boot platic spacer strut If both the collar and the spacer were retained, the top hat would not seat properly. It would if the spacer was eliminated, but then then USDM top hat calls for the spacer (it's present on the stock struts). OTOH, I think the spacer is not need for the JDM top hat (not used on stock JDM suspension) due to the large bearing on the JDM top hats. In other words I think: spacer + no collar for USDM top hat no spacer + collar for JDM top hat By the way, USDM top hat is pita, because the top opening is very narrow and a 19mm offset wrench would not fit (KWs come with 19mm nuts). Had to use 17mm nuts, since 17mm offset fits. Finally, one need to be careful with the perch locking screws... cross threaded one of the perches, dang.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Unclemat, If it works with both tophats (spacer min/out), is there a height difference, and with which one car will sit higher? I'm considering KW's, but don't like max. height adjustment giving you only two fingers gap. BobR I am not sure. I think it would seat the same, if different ,the difference would be negligible. However, according to Jedi Pimp it will seat higher with JDM top hats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praedet Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Are you referring to the black collar that is in my pictures? I though we retained that... I thought it was the bumpstop assembly... I agree the top nuts are a pita, I used an impact gun on the lowest setting with a 40 ft-lb torque bar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Are you referring to the black collar that is in my pictures? I though we retained that... No, I am talking about small metal collar, kinda looks like a washer than goes over the rod. It's outside diameter is exactly like the rod diameter. It's shiny silver like the rod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsme Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 I messed up the first time I put my fronts together I left on the collar and did not use the factory domed washer. I thought the wheel felt alittle heavy. The instuction link you posted was not the same picture as the instructions. I went back and took off the collar and added the fatory domed washer under the top hat and now it is much nicer and streer feels better. It smooth out the ride more. Lightyears better then my h-tech/stock strut combo. I have my car set at 1/4 below max height all the way around and have my damper set at 12 clicks from hard in the front and 14 clicks at the rear. It works well with my 19's and give me a finger space at each wheel. Racer X FMIC for '05-'09 LGTs, '08+ WRX and '10+ LGT,'14+ FXT, and '15+ WRX TMIC Racerxengineering.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Yup, that's what I have done: removed collar, kept the spacer (domed washer) and used USDM top hats. I just finished installing the fronts... now time for the rears... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGT Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 More questions: With recommended height setting, is lower control arm still on enough angle to enable negative camber for full compression stroke - or KW var2 doesn't affect geometry at all? I'm much more concerned with proper functioning than looks. BobR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VXCL Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 see you had a bad day as well oh nooz no bilsteins for you? you want to sell jdm top hats b4 i order from paul at apexjapan? yes i cracked a stud can pay you at meat MAYHEM #122/22 STS NNJR SCCA AUTOX4U.COM XENON RETRO GUIDE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 see you had a bad day as well oh nooz no bilsteins for you? you want to sell jdm top hats b4 i order from paul at apexjapan? yes i cracked a stud can pay you at meat You can buy the top hat from any US dealer. Should cost ~$50. It's the same part as on USDM SpecB. EDIT: I can help you... pming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VXCL Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 You can buy the top hat from any US dealer. Should cost ~$50. It's the same part as on USDM SpecB. EDIT: I can help you... pming oh sweet. will do then. figured id have to get from japan. thanks! MAYHEM #122/22 STS NNJR SCCA AUTOX4U.COM XENON RETRO GUIDE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostjunkie Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 Yup, that's what I have done: removed collar, kept the spacer (domed washer) and used USDM top hats. I just finished installing the fronts... now time for the rears... That is what I've always done with the KW's I've installed. I've honestly never installed them on a car with JDM top hat, so I was just assuming that the collar was there for the supposedly thicker JDM top hats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 That is what I've always done with the KW's I've installed. I've honestly never installed them on a car with JDM top hat, so I was just assuming that the collar was there for the supposedly thicker JDM top hats. JDM top hat is not thicker, actually it's thinner overall, plus the bearing has recess for nut, so it's even more thinner. That's the reason you cannot mount Bilsteins/Tokicos/etc to USDM top hats - the rod is too short for thick USDM bearing. As I said, I think the spacer is not to be used with JDM top hats, since the bearing on JDM top hat is big (wide). That's why collar is to be used. OTOH, I think the spacer would not hurt anything if used with JDM top hat. One thing for sure - both collar and spacer cannot be used, since only the threaded portion of the rod would extended past all the attachments, making mounting top hat insecure. By the way, KW's instructions SUCK. Almost nil useful information there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 by the way I thought some pics of top hats could be useful for future generations.... JDM top hat pics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 USDM top hat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 JDM & USDM compared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 Btw, initial test drive indicates that KWs are significatly softer on initial bump than JDM SpecB Rev.C Bilsteins, probably on par or softer than USDM SpecB Bilsteins. I think this should be attributed to the USDM top hat which is much much softer than JDM. After lowering the car after install I was surprised how much the top hat was pushed up - the whole thing flexes. Never noticed that with JDM top hat. Also, the USDM top hats I bought were... made in Poland. As far as I am concerned that does not inspire confidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsme Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 I thought the instruction sucked also. Racer X FMIC for '05-'09 LGTs, '08+ WRX and '10+ LGT,'14+ FXT, and '15+ WRX TMIC Racerxengineering.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragosdor Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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