Subaru contact says performance Legacy still coming

An inside source which should be considered reliable passed information to me that SOA is still planning a performance version of the Legacy :!: and are still considering something around 280Hp, although it could be more! :o Timeframe mentioned was "around September delivery". The subtext of the message I received was to hold off on taking the Legacy GT and wait for this bad boy instead. They wanted me to know that it was still coming despite no official announcement (yet) and that my patience would be rewarded. I get the impression that this is being leaked to make sure that the "pent up demand" remains for this performance version (Legacy STi?) instead of going for the 250/250 GT (2.5T) version already announced. I'm trying to see an ulterior motive in telling me to wait, but I can't see it. In fact it would be to SOA's and the dealer's advantage to get my $$$ ASAP, not many months later. Since I don't [b]need[/b] to buy any car this year and I don't [b]need[/b] to buy a Legacy GT as soon as the first one is shipped but I do [b]desire[/b] a performance Legacy, I think I will wait until the fall (maybe an extra 3-4 months if this info is right) and see what my patience nets me. It also makes it clear that I will be modding my current GT further. Where's the number for Cobb? Let the speculation begin! :twisted:

This is great news to me since I will be having to wait a solid year before buying a new car. This would be absolutely awesome, and this performance version would be a very good starting place for a 6MT. The 4.444 final is too short with a 5, but it could work with a 6. Even if it has the same engine as the STi, it might be a tad slower with wider spaced gears and better fuel economy as well. It would probably be quicker to 60 without a 3rd gear change. An advantage of using the STi's engine is that it would bring down their costs by producing it in higher volume. The biggest thing against the car to some people will be that it will probably come standard with leather and all the trimmings driving the price up. The base GT will still be the bargain car of the year IMO. :lol: here I'm saying this without even knowing for fact what the price will be. Maybe I'm too confident.

I don't know.. why would they release it in September? That doesn't make sense at all... are they thinking spec-B?

[quote name='PPower']here I'm saying this without even knowing for fact what the price will be.[/quote] The number $32K was "dropped" more than once during the conversation where I received this startling, exciting news. (Or should I just call it a rumor for now?)

I'd be all for it. I still want to wait until Detroit '05 before I buy one. If they are not going to do one the same model year then they need to wait a bit to not upset the fanbase who already spent good cash on one.

[quote name='waflowers']An inside source which should be considered reliable passed information to me that SOA is still planning a performance version of the Legacy :!: and are still considering something around 280Hp, although it could be more! :o [/quote] My guess would be the USDM STi Engine and drivetrain. 280hp would not be enough, by the time it comes out all the other manufactureres will have or at least be planning hp increases for their performance models.

Dare I ask it. What oh what will the bumper look like! :D

It isn't as simple as raw Hp numbers, but the torque curve and how it relates to the vehicle weight. Of course for marketing to the unwashed masses (and even most performance minded car buffs) the Hp number in isolation is all that matters. :(

LOL, this is going to be hard to remember what I post in one thread and not the other. I think that an STi drivetrain (without DCCD & maybe f. Suretrac lsd) is very reasonable. The extra production of STi engines would help reduce costs through economy of scale. The STi 6MT would be perfect with wider gear ratios. Spec B gearing plus an overdrive like I've hoped for would be perfect. It may stay just a bit slower than the Impreza STi that way at least on the 1/4 mile. I'd better not get my hopes up.

[quote name='Tide']Dare I ask it. What oh what will the bumper look like! :D[/quote] I dared not ask it. Thanks for bringing it up though. :lol:

[quote name='Tide']Dare I ask it. What oh what will the bumper look like! :D[/quote] "I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you." j/k Seriously, the subject never came up. I'm not one of those that found it to be a big issue. YMMV.

[quote name='waflowers']It isn't as simple as raw Hp numbers, but the torque curve and how it relates to the vehicle weight. Of course for marketing to the unwashed masses (and even most performance minded car buffs) the Hp number in isolation is all that matters. :([/quote] I totally agree but I don't think 280/280? will be a big enough hike over the GT's 250/250 that's why I suggested USDM STi. That's what I'd want.

Hard to see it comming out so soon. Detroit 2005 sounds more likely IMO

[quote name='EJ20H-TT']Hard to see it comming out so soon. Detroit 2005 sounds more likely IMO[/quote] I questioned the timing also, but he was very insistent. (Need a "shrug" smiley.)

So is your deposit still in place? They'd have to announce it before they shipped the first cars.

i just can't see it happening. it would undermine any sort of marketing strategy. i hope it does happen, but i think this one isn't likely.

[quote name='Dr. Zevil']I don't know.. why would they release it in September? That doesn't make sense at all... are they thinking spec-B?[/quote] i say release it ASAP i was gonna get GT but now this unknown legacy (USDM spec-b) sounds a lot better than just gt legacy

waflowers, you don't have to be specific, but what kind of business are you in?

I just can't see it happening. If that's the case, think about what happens to the rest of the Legacy lineup. Let's use Audi as an example. People bought the S4 just because it was the most expensive Audi, rather than because of its performance pedigree. If the "high-perf" Legacy comes in, at $30K+, with "only" 280hp (a 30hp bump isn't enough to justify the price hike), then you wind up with a) a confused marketing scheme, with people either deciding to buy one or the other, b) people being paralyzed and deciding not to buy anything or c) people not buying either, because the 250hp isn't enough, and Subaru doesn't have the profile to sell a $30K+ car in the face of some (to the average joe) very impressive competition. Already, people who were on board with a GT are deciding to "wait for the hot model." But what if the hot model isn't all that hot, but is hotter than the GT? Suddenly, Subaru has a problem with not one, but TWO cars that aren't sufficiently hot. The only way you can see this happening is if they've figured out some way to get quite a bit of horsepower from the H6, or if the GT will be bargain-priced, moving the fiscal spread of the "high-performance" version to something like $5K or so, which makes it much more viable, marketing-wise. Or is this car where you'll see standard leather, lightened 6-speed, moonroof, nav, HIDs, etc, with the fancier options not being available at all for the GT. Perhaps something will come out of the Chicago show, but if GTs are showing up in May (what my dealer said today), September means that some word should be coming down the pike very soon, or people who bought GTs but might have bought whatever this other rumored Legacy will be, could be mightily annoyed. For us wagon folks, we needn't worry, as the USDM never gets high-performance wagons. The GT would instantly become one of the hottest true wagons out there, along with the Volvo V70R and S4. I say true wagon, because the WRX wagon isn't really a wagon, as much as a sedan with a backpack. I can't tell any more if Subaru is smart, or stupid. Kevin

[quote name='Tide']So is your deposit still in place? They'd have to announce it before they shipped the first cars.[/quote] Yes, my deposit is still in place. :) I was told it isn't 100% certain that this would happen, but that it was "almost certain". Knowing well what I'm looking for in a car it was recommended that I wait, or I'd regret it when (if?) the performance model is available. Take it for what it's worth.

[quote name='Tin_pusher']waflowers, you don't have to be specific, but what kind of business are you in?[/quote] I'm VP of Software and one of 3 partners (2 managing, one largely silent) of Insight Control Systems. We make inspection equipment (cameras taking pictures which computer analyze in real time) for metal and plastic closures (e.g. most every Coke and Pepsi bottle top in the world, Bud, Millers, Coors, Tylenol, Centrum vitamins, insulin vial tops, etc. and lots more), glass bottles, pharmaceutical products and (in development to be shipped next month) car parts (air bag actuator hubs to start). We specialize in high-speed inspection, with some inspections running at 3000ppm or more! We have systems all over the world (Beijing, Moscow, Germany, Hungary, England, Spain, France, South and Central America, Korea, Phillipines, Thailand, Nepal, Bahrain off the top of my head). All from Safety Harbor, FL -- across the Bay from Tampa. :D Was that general enough?

^ BANK :o

Sorry, but that was a bit too vague. I thought you'd be in an auto related field, or something else close to the car biz.

[quote name='Tin_pusher']Sorry, but that was a bit too vague. I thought you'd be in an auto related field, or something else close to the car biz.[/quote] I'll assume a missing smilie in the above comment. :) Sorry, I'm a bit removed from the car biz, but I talk to lots of people in lots of areas.

[quote name='gtguy']Already, people who were on board with a GT are deciding to "wait for the hot model." But what if the hot model isn't all that hot, but is hotter than the GT? Suddenly, Subaru has a problem with not one, but TWO cars that aren't sufficiently hot. The only way you can see this happening is if they've figured out some way to get quite a bit of horsepower from the H6, or if the GT will be bargain-priced, moving the fiscal spread of the "high-performance" version to something like $5K or so, which makes it much more viable, marketing-wise. Or is this car where you'll see standard leather, lightened 6-speed, moonroof, nav, HIDs, etc, with the fancier options not being available at all for the GT. [/quote] First off, I think anybody mentioning waiting is somebody who doesn't really need to buy a car immediately and anybody aware of it even in August is in the minority. I could see a model with the Limited "package" standard and the STi engine/transmission. Hopefully it would have wider spaced gears if that were the case. The pricing of $32k is very plausible so long as it doesn't have the DCCD and front LSD. The leather/sunroof would take the place of those pieces cost wise. Sooo, if a Legacy GT is $1000 more than a WRX sedan, then a Legacy could be $1000 more than the STi Impreza. I don't think it would cause a problem even at 280hp, and you know I'll tell you why I think so. Let's take somebody who DETESTS leather like SUBE555. It would be a better example if he were older and didn't want to consider the boy racer look of the STi but liked the car. So he is planning on getting the base GT at 26k because the enthusiast wants it STRIPPED. But now, he can suck it up to pay for leather/moonroof/power seats :shock: to gain the Brembo brakes?, BBS? 18" wheels w/ summer tires, suspension, and maybe 30-50hp more (and maybe the heavy duty 6MT that the 30hp more than makes up for). Any true enthusiast that has the financial means to do so would pay the extra money to step it up. The added pieces would be fully worth the additional $3500-$6000 increase over potential prices of the GT($26k?) and GT LTD($28-$28.5k?). BMW 330's performance package is about $3500 for similar things, and those are BMW prices.