what exactly is a "summer" tire ?

In applying the various "filters" for tires at tirerack.com,

there is a set of tire categories incorporating the word

"summer", e.g. "high performance summer".

 

The descriptions say these tires shouldn't be driven in

snow or ice or near-freezing temps. I wonder exactly

what they're trying to say here. Does the rubber somehow

get really crazy near freezing, or do they just mean that since

it handles ice and snow poorly, you don't want to be driving

them in conditions where ice might form. In the South

where I live, it is very rare for it to snow (less than once a

year on average), if it does everyone freaks out and doesn't

go anywhere anyhow, and even if I did drive, Subarus are

so vastly superior to virtually every other car in snow handling

that I really don't care too much if it's not an optimum tire for

snow.

 

So I'm wondering if a "summer" category is a suitable year-round

tire for me ...

summer only tire shouldn't be used below 50 degrees

You will go nowhere trying to drive a dedicated summer tyre on even the smallest amount of snow.

 

It just doesn't work.

In temperatures below (I believe 40'F) a certain point, the compound becomes ridiculously hard, and generally unsafe to drive on. To give you an example, here in St. Louis I used to run Bridgestone Potenza S-03 Pole Positions which are a summer-only, and then Revo-1 ice/snow tires in the winter (on a 2003 Impreza 2.5RS).

 

I got caught in a freak storm in late September in the S-03s, and the temperature dropped down to something like 5'F with heavy wind. We got lucky, no rain/snow/ice. The car had been sitting for many hours outdoors in this cold, and I headed out onto the highway after only a 1/4mi driving or so. After the onramp merging on, I slid semi-sideways across 2 lanes onto the highway (fortunately it was about 3:30am) with no water/etc to blame. The tires literally just had no grip whatsoever on the very cold pavement. After 5 or so miles of decent speed they seemed to get enough warmth in them to drive safely, but up until then I had to keep the car to about 45-50mph just to keep it reasonably stable in the wind.

Damn, guys, thanks for clearing THAT up. Guess you don't

wanna use "summer" as all-season unless you live in Central

America or something.

 

BTW, in my other recent thread here ("one bad tire") the seller

WAS going to put some ultra-high performance summer tires

(Goodrich g-Force) on as part of the deal; glad I negotiated that

away.

Summer tire = no mud & snow (M & S) rating. That is of significance for us in CA. All-season tires have an M&S rating that allows them to be used in CA during chain control on 4WD and AWD cars, while other cars need to chain up.

Guess you don't wanna use "summer" as all-season unless you live in Central America or something.

 

I think that summer tires are just fine for southmost southern states, when elevation is low. I see no need for AS tires in Florida and all gulf coast. Southern California is safe bet unless somebody goes to mountains.

 

Krzys

Strictly speaking, a summer tire is a tire with no provisions for snow or ice traction. Summer tires have rubber that does not stay plyable and grippy in colder temperatures and generally have larger tread blocks to maximize pavement grip. If you look in tirerack.com, the summer tires have no rating for snow and ice performance. And some very high performance summer tires have manufacturers warnings saying that use or storage in sub-freezing temps will ruing the tire compound.

The other major downside (or trade-off) is the much lower UTCQ rating. This means they wear much faster than an all-season tire. My Toyo Proxes 4 had a UTCQ (wear rating) or 140 AA. By comparison, the Goodyear F1 All Seasons have a 420 AA. The Proxes were grippy, but were gone in 16k miles.

Yeah, I've driven on some summer only tires accidentally once (snow came earlier than expected, no time to swap to M+S tires) and it is NOT fun.

 

Once its below a certain temp, even if there is no snow or ice on the road, the compound becomes incredibly hard.

 

And it doesn't matter if you have two or four wheels powered, if the tires can't grip the road, you don't have traction.

o boy there is alot of misguided info here....

 

 

Summer tire = no mud & snow (M & S) rating. All-season tires have an M&S rating that allows them to be used in CA during chain control on 4WD and AWD cars, while other cars need to chain up.

 

Not all AS tires have the M&S rating. You need the snowflake symbol on the tire for it to pass chain stations.

 

 

The other major downside (or trade-off) is the much lower UTCQ rating. This means they wear much faster than an all-season tire.

 

Not entirely true. It all depends on the individual tire that you get. Summer only tires tend to be stickier and do have lower wear ratings than most AS tires, but you can find Summer tires with higher ratings than some AS tires.

Not in California or Nevada (maybe other states). The snowflake is extended winter testing, whereas the M+S is the minimal winter testing. M+S is what is considered All Season by most. The M+S rating on your car (no snowflake needed) with AWD will get you past chain control here in the Sierras.

 

Colorado being higher and colder and with worse winter conditions, though, might be the difference.

The M&S designation only notes that the tire has a knobby or rough tread pattern.. as opposed to a ribbed design. The RE92a is marked M&S and it's a pretty bad tire even in the rain.

 

The snowflake symbol notes the tire as being a tire capable of good winter traction and has been used to replace the M&S designation on tires that are for Winter only.

Yeah, but RE92s + AWD will get you past chain stations here. That's all I'm saying. M+S all seasons + AWD are enough (by law).

 

Whether or not its the best idea is up to each individual person, but here in Nevada/California, it'll get you past chain control with no chains.

Not entirely true. It all depends on the individual tire that you get. Summer only tires tend to be stickier and do have lower wear ratings than most AS tires, but you can find Summer tires with higher ratings than some AS tires.

Don't forget the precious RE92 has a 160 rating. That's lower than the RE01-R, Direzza Z1 Star Spec, and Advan Neova AD07.

The RE01-R has a 140 treadwear rating.

Fun fact: The treadwear rating is useless.

o boy there is alot of misguided info here....

 

 

 

 

Not all AS tires have the M&S rating. You need the snowflake symbol on the tire for it to pass chain stations.

Don't accuse people of misinformation when you give it yourself.

In most states with chain control, "winter tire" is still defined as M+S.

 

One "summer" tire has an M+S rating (General Exclaim UHP), but by manufacturer's own admission it shouldn't be used in snow, though its ok in cold temps.

ehh, i was off by a little..... Still wouldn't a use a tire in snow without the snowflake symbol

The RE01-R has a 140 treadwear rating.

Not for 225/45R17.

Not for 225/45R17.

 

That is so weird. I've never seen a tire change treadwear rating based on size.

 

Now, admittedly I usually don't look too closely at treadwear ratings on sizes that I don't buy (so maybe this is more common than I think), but yeah you are right. For the RE-01R, some sizes are 180 and some are 140.

 

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.jsp?make=Bridgestone&model=Potenza+RE-01R&tirePageLocQty=

 

Though, to be honest, I have 245/40/17, and I could swear they say 140 on the sidewalls. The above chart says they should be 180? Hmm.

 

Fun fact: The treadwear rating is useless.

 

Oh yeah, and that too.

Still wouldn't a use a tire in snow without the snowflake symbol

Agreed. They really are so much better. Anyone in place with winter, give real winters a shot and you won't wanna go back.

Also, a cheaper ste of snows such as X-ICEs and some cheaper summers like Generals will run similar to a pretty good A/S but completely out perform the A/S.

I used to use summer tires, but i recently switched to Advan S.4 245/45-R18

 

they are an all season, but they outperform the summers I had (Toyo T1R). Much better treadwear as well. no idea how they handle in the cold though

i've done summer tires in ice and snow, basically, the treadblocks and the rubber itself is not ideal (nor even that much fun to drive in public roads) due to the lack of siping and treadblock flex. The compound is not warm enough to be soft and be able to grip the road. When you look at an all season tire, the tread blocks are taller, smaller in size, this allows the rubber to flex some since it doesnt have that kind of bulk and support when the summer days come into play. Stiffer suspension only works if you have equal force reactions from the road.

 

you can be crazy like me and drive on summer tires in the ice (which i have done in an autocross, see my you tube videos for that), then you can see how much that it's NOT so fun if you were trying to drive home with zero traction.

 

The bottom line is unless you know your driving skills and own 2 or 3 racing licenses and instruct racing schools and high performance driving schools, dont bother even driving on summer tires during the winter season below 40F, it's simply not ideal. Even real racers rather have as much grip as possible at ANY given situation and we'll go and make sure we get that kind of grip.

It's only freezing here maybe 15 days out of the year ......... summer tires only. I just drive cautiously on the rare occasion that it's actually cold.

If your South is = to my South, summer only is fine.