reverse synchro go bye-bye

Holy reverse gears, my beloved 5sp 2005 lgt, with just 6500 miles on it, has a bad reverse synchro. I am so bummed. I have never done anything powertrain-wise to abuse my car in anyway shape or form. I have never even dropped the clutch, nothing. My sube dealer is a good one, so I have no worries at the moment.

 

Has anyone else had any manual trans issues? Or i am the lucky one?

 

Drats...

The reverse doesn't have a synchro (I believe, correct me if I'm wrong) thus the difficulty we often experience getting into reverse. Are you sure it is the synchro?

yup, reverse dosen't have a synchro

no, Im not. Dealer told me that was what it was. In teh last fw weks, when in reverse, it makes a fairly loud whirring noise (sorry to go technical on ya). I have used revese so little (duh) that I thought maybe this was what it always sounded like. When they gave the car back to me last night, the mechanic said that indeed reverse was wack, and that it was the synchro. I am too brain-dead mechanically to know if reverse has a synchro, but I do know that it is not any harder to get in reverse today than it was the day I bought it, and that is to say, it is not hard at all. But there is defintily an icky sound (sorry to go tech again) when cruising in reverse. Maybe it is "a" syncchro that he said, not the non-existent reverse sync...

It's the idler gear for reverse that's hard to engage.

i bet this dealer wanted to change the muffler bearings too....

 

I did ask that the piston return springs be checked too...

I think they all "whir" when in reverse.... I call BS!

ah, but this not a normal whir, it is a nasty one....loud clicking/ticking/ratcheting-type noise, bad enough that even I noticed it...

While I'll agree and say no such thing exists, don't dare mention to your dealer that people on the internet told you that there's no synchros. We don't know what we're talking about.

 

(Still bitter...)

Listen to the gear whine in first and second in this Legacy GT with an loud aftermarket exhaust:

 

http://www.stimpco.com/carpix/Subaru56k.wmv (2 meg version)

 

Reverse is much, much louder.

 

Every so often I have trouble getting it into reverse, but either a shift into first or a little movement forward and it is fine. Was noise the only issue?

 

-B

replicant - can you scan in the work order? I would like to see the part numbers of the parts they replaced else BS.

so, if it is a bad idler gera (yet it is still easy to get into reverse), could that be making the grinding noises? If not, what would? All other gears are fine, the tranny shifts perfectly, clutch, everything is perfect and smooth, just reverse, when in motion, sounds like a loud ratchet....what gives?

yup, I will post the entire work order. It will be another week before they have the loaner and I have time to make the swap.

Here you go http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question522.htm

 

Difference is forward gears are helical vs the spur gears used for reverse.

beanboy, yes, noise is THE only issue. There is nothing different or unusual with any functionailty. My car runs and drives perfect.

The whir / clicking noise could be any number of things. The "Bad synchro" is just an excuse that the mechanic uses to make it sound like he knows what's going on. There's no real way of telling unless you pull it apart. It could be synchro rings, springs, or bearings. Although if this is a common problem, maybe he does know it's the reverse synchro and is used to changing them. I'm pretty sure this tranny has a synchro reverse. It can be put in reverse while rolling forward or backward. All non-synchro reverse trannys that i've seen have to be at a dead stop or it's grind city.

Yes, the final thing I was told that it would have to come apart to know exactly what was wrong. Now I am thinking I should go back to the dealer and have a friend who works there back up in a new leg and see what it sounds like.

Some manual transmissions do have a syncro on reverse but they're relatively rare. I, mistakenly, put my LGT in reverse while rolling a bit and I got a bit of a crunch. So I don't think it's synro'd. In any event, dealers aren't in the business of rebuilding transmissions. The fix will be to replace the whole tranny.

 

I would be interested to hear what they write down as a diagnosis for you. Of course, even if there is no syncro that won't prevent the dealer from telling you that. They're a dealer afterall.

Here you go http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question522.htm

 

Difference is forward gears are helical vs the spur gears used for reverse.

 

 

right, or "dog" gears. much noisier, and harder to engage.

 

dR

Yes, the final thing I was told that it would have to come apart to know exactly what was wrong. Now I am thinking I should go back to the dealer and have a friend who works there back up in a new leg and see what it sounds like.

 

how new is your car? if it's a pretty new car with a defective tranny issue, I wouldn't let them split my tranny case open no matter what. tell them you're going to need a new tranny, b/c the integrity of the case will never be the same once it's been opened and re sealed.

 

$0.02

 

dR

dark_rex, on the contrary spur gears are easier to engage than helical, which is why they are used for reverse because the reverse gear is not engaged all-time like the forward helical gears.

if that's the case, then why is it necessary to rev match perfectly in a car w/ dog gears otherwise, you'll either grind the shi+ out of them?

 

helical gears w/ synchros are the easiset to engage which is why they are in all passenger cars (at least i thought that's why)

 

dR

dark_rex, I called the dealer just now on this very issue. They said most likely, if antything is found wrong, new tranny, not rebuilt. The car is 10 months old with just 6500 miles on it, and I do not want a rebuilt tranny in it. It would be up to the sube rep to make the final decision after the tranny comes apart.

 

I am going to have a long talk with the dealer before any work is done on the tranny. My feelings are that I dont want to argue after the cases are split. If it is broken, new tranny, period.

dark_rex, I called the dealer just now on this very issue. They said most likely, if antything is found wrong, new tranny, not rebuilt. The car is 10 months old with just 6500 miles on it, and I do not want a rebuilt tranny in it.

 

yeah, and what if there is nothing wrong with it?

 

Tell them if they think there is something wrong with it, just replace the thing under warranty. You don't want the headaches of their mistakes.