Hawk HPS pads just not cutting it... or are they?

Hi all,

 

I installed Hawk HPS pads on my car last year, since the stock ones were shot to hell.

 

While it was an improvement, it still leaves a LOT to be desired. In other words, unless I do a few very hard (and very annoying for the passengers) braking procedures to heat them up, they simply do not bite enough.

 

Once heated, they are a lot of fun, but since they eventually cool off, it just doesn't inspire confidence if/when the occasion presents itself for some spirited driving, knowing that I will have to brake afterwards, and that the brakes just won't respond.

 

To further piss me off, I took my M3 out of storage this weekend (old ass E36 'vert) and my God, hitting the cold brakes provides a much more enjoyable experience; heat them up, and smash the pedal, it's like throwing an anchor out back.

 

The M3 is fitted with Axxis Ultimates, that's it. Stock calipers, stock rotors, stock lines, stock fluid. It's also a 'vert, so weight wise, it's the same as the Subie.

 

Are the Hawk HPS the bad pads for me (i.e. they need to be heated up like a dedicated track pad to perform)?

 

Would a bleeding and fluid change make the brakes stronger, allowing the pads to be heated up quicker?

 

This is very aggravating, because the Subie is a great car, quicker than the M3 in many respects, but man, the brakes are so awful that going fast is not even in the plans since I have no trust in the brakes.

 

And no, I'm not buying a BBK to compensate for the shortcomings of a car sporting a «GT» label. The only sacrifice I'm willing to make is to buy stainless steel lines.

 

Any help?

Stainless lines won't change your perception.

BBK won't either:lol:

Axxis ultimates have a higher µ and initial bite because of it. The trade-off is that they dust like crazy. Hawk HPS do not dust much at all but do not have the initial bite of more aggressive pads. So, in your case, if you want crazy initial bite, step up to hawk HP+ or something like that. Keep in mind though that a pad like that will dust and squeal more than the HPS.

The real question is, is your problem in the perception of the braking or the reality of the braking? My LGT feels like it brakes very "soft", even on the Carbotech Bobcats. However, it's not really braking soft, it just feels that way. As far as actual stopping distance and ability, it's very impressive.

 

Couldn't tell you why it feels that way, maybe brake bias, maybe the weight of the car, suspension? You should actually test your cold stopping distance, and maybe the results of that will change your confidence in them. I had mine tested by an old man who decided to switch lanes in traffic from 0mph (exit lane which was stopped) into my lane of the highway (doing 60mph). I can say for sure they work very very well.

 

Edit: That said, everyone seems to love the Hawk pads, but looking at the actual specs (down rao, DOWN!) they actually don't look like very good pads. I'm inclined to go with everyone's results over their advertise specifications of heat, friction, etc. However with the Carbotechs not being very expensive and also having fantastic reviews, I went with them for a bit more peace of mind.

hps is good for the street as a replacement for the oem pads, but if you want a bigger increase in performance and response and dont car about dust or noise, HP+ is a much better pad.

The real question is, is your problem in the perception of the braking or the reality of the braking? My LGT feels like it brakes very "soft", even on the Carbotech Bobcats. However, it's not really braking soft, it just feels that way. As far as actual stopping distance and ability, it's very impressive.

 

Couldn't tell you why it feels that way, maybe brake bias, maybe the weight of the car, suspension? You should actually test your cold stopping distance, and maybe the results of that will change your confidence in them. I had mine tested by an old man who decided to switch lanes in traffic from 0mph (exit lane which was stopped) into my lane of the highway (doing 60mph). I can say for sure they work very very well.

 

Edit: That said, everyone seems to love the Hawk pads, but looking at the actual specs (down rao, DOWN!) they actually don't look like very good pads. I'm inclined to go with everyone's results over their advertise specifications of heat, friction, etc. However with the Carbotechs not being very expensive and also having fantastic reviews, I went with them for a bit more peace of mind.

 

 

Hmmm... I agree that the butt dyno is not necessarily the best gauge, but when you feel like you have to apply tons of pressure to get a merely average deceleration feeling, something ain't right.

 

I might have to get some HP+, although I thought these were track-oriented pads with even crappier initial bite.

 

 

And for the record, I don't care about noise or dust.

I just installed the Bobcat pads and ss lines with new ATE fluid. The car brakes with much more bite and the pedal distance is reduced. Before I would push on the brake pedal and the brakes would begin to grab and then I had to keep pushing down to get the car to come to a full stop. The Bobcat pads do squeek a bit when cold but are not dusty. There are more agressive pads out there but they are not for the lower temps of regular driving.

I just installed the Bobcat pads and ss lines with new ATE fluid. The car brakes with much more bite and the pedal distance is reduced. Before I would push on the brake pedal and the brakes would begin to grap and then I had to keep pushing down to get the car to come to a full stop. The Bobcat pads do squeek a bit when cold but are not dusty. There are more agressive pads out there but they are not for the lower temps of regular driving.

 

So are the Bobcats comparable to the HP+, or do the HP+ fall into the «more agressive pads that are not for the lower temps of regular driving» (according to you of course)?

HP+ are fine for street driving, they are rated for temperatures down at freezing. Bobcats would be closer to HPS in intent, but the specs seem to be about on par with the HP+. The HP+ and AX6 are intended to be closer to each other, marketing wise.

the HPS is not really a performance pad IMO. I tried autocrossing it and the response kinda sucks.

 

It's great for street though.

I autocross my legy with hps pads and love them. I have no problem with them. hp+ are nice but if you plan on driving the car daily the noise will drive you crazzy.

^no they wont. My LGT has HP+ and though they are dusty, they are actually pretty quiet.

My BMW's brakes squeal when I cruise to a complete stop. Small trade off for an otherwise great performance.

 

What vendor do you guys recommend for the HP+?

We carry Hawk.

 

Honestly, HPS are not a track pad and really they're a poor street pad (i run them, can't wait to burn em up). No bite when cold, but then they fade coming out of the driveway.

 

They just don't like heat or cold.

 

HP+ WILL make noise, but they do have good bite.

 

- Andrew

We carry Hawk.

 

Honestly, HPS are not a track pad and really they're a poor street pad (i run them, can't wait to burn em up). No bite when cold, but then they fade coming out of the driveway.

 

They just don't like heat or cold.

 

HP+ WILL make noise, but they do have good bite.

 

- Andrew

 

Surely you have a good deal for a disenchanted fellow LGT owner?

If you dont care about noise or dust, get some Carbotech XP8s.

Better than Hawk? Or equivalent, but cheaper?

Better than Hawk? Or equivalent, but cheaper?

 

In terms of performance and feel it goes like this:

 

Hawk HT10>CT XP8>CT AX6>Hawk HP+>CT Bobcat>Hawk HPS

If HPS is not a great street pad, what do you recc.?

If HPS is not a great street pad, what do you recc.?

 

Its perfectly fine for most. Really depends on what you want and the levels of noise and dust you want to live with.

FWIW - HPS felt stockish on my Miata, swapped to used Axxis Ultimates. Much better cold, without being grabby. Easily modulated, but very dusty. HPS are still on the rear.

Yes, I AX it occasionally, but I suck at it...

how's the noise on the Axxis Ultimates and the CT Bobcats compared to the HPS? My HPS need replacement. I don't care about dust just noise.

how's the noise on the Axxis Ultimates and the CT Bobcats compared to the HPS? My HPS need replacement. I don't care about dust just noise.

 

I used the Axxis pads on my Outback and if I applied anti-squeal grease to the pad backing plates I never had any squeal (still need to do this with my current Brembo setup). You can hear a slight grinding type noise with them at low speeds when you stop.

I just ordered pads, rotors, fluid and lines from fredbeans. I'm going to most likely install them this weekend along with my exhaust, I'll tell you how things feel after the install.