Who has 4 pots/2 pots on their Outback?

Hi everyone, I'm in the process of creating multiple details spread sheets for all of my (soon to be) upgrade 'stages' on the OBXT. So far I have engine and suspension complete, which brings me to brakes!

 

I'm looking at the USDM 2006-'07 WRX 4pot/2pot conversion. I understand an LGT swap is better(ish) due to larger rotors. However, I want to retain small wheel clearance for snows, and Im going to go for substantially better pedal feel than raw power here. This is my DD, and I rarely overtax my brakes to the point that I feel I need much more. Most of my sporty driving is on tight country roads, not high speed situations. Not to mention, I'll qualify for group N grail spec!

 

I'm wondering who has mounted these, and did they have clearance with the USDM calipers(no raised logo) with stock OBXT wheels? Also looking for feedback on how the conversion went! It looks like the front os just plug and play, but the rears need a little cutting/Kartboy Brackets.

 

My setup may turn out to be as follows:

 

Front: (stage 1)

USDM Red 4 pots

Custom SS lines to fit OBXT suspension

Racing Brake Slotted rotors

Ferodo DS2500 pads (Maybe something less aggressive)

Grimmspeed LGT MC Brace to stiffen up pedal feel

Motul RBF600

 

Rear: (stage 2)

USDM Red 2 Pots (flipped so bleeders fit)

Kartboy or KNS brackets

Custom SS lines to fit OBXT suspension

Centric LGT cryo rotors

Ferodo DS2500 pads (or something less aggressive to create a forward brake bias)

 

Yes, I know this will cost well around $1500, but years in the mountain biking industry have taught me that in some situations, it's not all about raw power, but modulation as well. In my situation, LGT brakes would be cool, but I feel good rotors and pads with a non-sliding caliper will produce much more worth while results for me.

FWIW, the red 4pot/2pot is a downgrade from the stock LGT brakes(i know you have an outback), the point is if you want batter brakes for less money, go with the OEM LGT calipers/rotors. you will spend a lot less.

 

for $1500 you can put together a set of used STI brembos.

FWIW, the red 4pot/2pot is a downgrade from the stock LGT brakes(i know you have an outback), the point is if you want batter brakes for less money, go with the OEM LGT calipers/rotors. you will spend a lot less.

 

for $1500 you can put together a set of used STI brembos.

 

I don't mind spending the money! After all, brakes save your life!

 

My reason for not going LGT sliders:

-I hate sliders. I would take a smaller, better modulated, and easily rebuildable opposed piston caliper over sliders any day. (This is to a point, obviously) Chicago winters and salt have a great way of making sliding calipers not slide very well anymore.

-Ability to fit a wider(cheaper) range of snow wheels/tires. (By using WRX rotors)

 

My reason for not going STI Brembo:

-I'll need new wheels, can't do that right now

-Rear E-brake incompatibility issues

-I'll most likely have to go used. I'm planning on buying all new parts. I don't want to go used here if I don't have to.

-I'm 100% sure these would be all sorts of overkill for my needs.

 

I'm also looking into the Racing brake 4 pots, as I can use them with both WRX and 322mm rotors(down the road), take Subaru 4 pot pads, are albs lighter, and they fit under OEM wheels!

the racing brake bbk is fine. just dont go with the subaru red 4/2pots. its would be a waste of money.

 

As for the brembos

-you dont need new wheels, just the right spacer, 10mm at most i think.

-the emabrake is easily solved either by getting the enlarged e-brake shoe a sti rotor or the specail rotor in the kit to make it work with the oem shoe.

-nothing wrong with used. if you are doing the work yourself, servicing a caliper is easy.

-they are no more overkill than the racing brake kit. you have a heavy car and the brembos are designed for a lighter car. i wouldnt call them overkill.

the racing brake bbk is fine. just dont go with the subaru red 4/2pots. its would be a waste of money.

 

As for the brembos

-you dont need new wheels, just the right spacer, 10mm at most i think.

-the emabrake is easily solved either by getting the enlarged e-brake shoe a sti rotor or the specail rotor in the kit to make it work with the oem shoe.

-nothing wrong with used. if you are doing the work yourself, servicing a caliper is easy.

-they are no more overkill than the racing brake kit. you have a heavy car and the brembos are designed for a lighter car. i wouldnt call them overkill.

 

Looks like I've got some more research to do! I like that Racing Brake makes templates that can be printed and fitted inside stock wheels to test fitment. I'm going to look into the rear e-brake situation to see what options there are. Hell, If I get bored enough, I'll compile the info and make a new thread for it.

 

Edit: Another question: Should I consider '05-'09 Outback brake fitment to simply be 02+ WRX brake fitment, installation and mounting wise?

i wouldnt go that far but caliper mounting is similar.

 

there are plenty of vendors who sell rear brembo fitment kits with the braket and the special rotor needed or the bigger shoe for STI rear rotors to fit. If you got $1500 to spend, as you sad above, target a used brembo swap. there are plenty of thread where people put them on outbacks.

Avoid racing brakes. Look up the cts that ran their brakes. their rotors are the issue.

STI brembo's

Wilwood upgrade kit

Modded evo brembos

Modded cts-v brembos

IHI 4 pots

lots of options cts-v are the cheapest calipers.

Nissan 300zx calipers with KNS brackets. LGT rotors and 4pot pedal feel, can still fit certain 16's wheels.

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k153/rougeben83/OBXT/IMG_20141116_111908_zpsca9dfe97.jpg

I do:) here's why.. I rebuilt my outback brakes 2x and was tired of doing it.. pad+rotor options for 4pots is crazy and a lot cheaper.. I wanted to be able to run 15 or 16 inch wheels for ice racing/rally cross.. which means no brembo.. and.. I think they look cool.. oh and I once saw a chart somewhere saying that putting 4 pots on our car shifted the brake bias to the rear a bit which seemed like a good idea.. and they are more brake than any of us will ever need..realistically.. mtn biking? chicago... you work for SRAM? oh and don't listen to anything whitetiger has to say.. these brakes are fine..all I can offer is anecdotal evidence to that statement..towing 2 snowmobiles up and down I-70 lots of canyon fun.. etc.. I am already mad at him because he unknowingly convinced me to get a front LSD on my car (which was a good idea) and he may have also unknowingly may have made me spend $$ on a custom bilstein HD setup from fatcat motorsports.. so you have been warned, ignore whitetiger;).. also you won't need a custom brake line..whichever off the shelf one for obxt/lgt will work fine.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=928642

this.. shows that subaru people have spent waaaay to much time thinking about this stuff:)

the racing brake bbk is fine. just dont go with the subaru red 4/2pots. its would be a waste of money.

 

As for the brembos

-you dont need new wheels, just the right spacer, 10mm at most i think.

-the emabrake is easily solved either by getting the enlarged e-brake shoe a sti rotor or the specail rotor in the kit to make it work with the oem shoe.

-nothing wrong with used. if you are doing the work yourself, servicing a caliper is easy.

-they are no more overkill than the racing brake kit. you have a heavy car and the brembos are designed for a lighter car. i wouldnt call them overkill.

 

I'll look further into it! I've heard good and bad about wheel spacers, but I assume getting a quality spacer, and proper length lugs should alleviate any issues. I saw the adapter parking brake shoes for about $30, i need to rebuild that assembly anyways so I'll go that route. Then all I should need are regular old 2004 STI rotors, and I'll have a cheaper/wider selection to choose from.

 

However, from my preliminary findings, getting all this going will be a bit more than $1500. Especially when you factor in new lines, fluid, pads, rotors, master cylinder, spacers, and lugs. I'm not sure if it'll be feasible for me. Same goes for the Racing Brake kit. $1200 for the fronts, and at least another $400 for the rears if I went with an LGT setup, or $550 for a big brake kit to use larger rotors with WRX sliding calipers. Then I worry about the brake bias. I'tll also make my prospects for snow wheels/tires that much more limited and expensive as well, and I'll lose some sidewall, which makes a good difference.

 

The reason the 4pot/2pot calipers were appealing is simply because of fitment, and it's a complete kit(other than pricey Brembos) with matched parts, the way Subaru designed it to be. I can also find all for calipers used for less than Half of what the Brembos go for(based off a quick ebay search) And at this point, anything is better than what I have! I'm also pretty sure that even this setup would be adequate for what I'm going to be doing, which is 95% daily driver, with the occasional stint of racecar. However, your stating that the Brembos aren't overkill as they're designed for a lighter vehicle is something I completely agree with.

 

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=928642

this.. shows that subaru people have spent waaaay to much time thinking about this stuff:)

 

Oh man! As an engineering major this interests me quite a bit, I'm gonna have to do some of my own calculations to see what will give me the most advantage as far as cost-return.

you dont need to replace your master cylinder for the brembos, and if all you need is a 5mm spacer, you can use the stock lugs.

 

you should be able to get the rear conversion kit, lines and used brembo calipers/rotors for under $1500. that's all you need.

you dont need to replace your master cylinder for the brembos, and if all you need is a 5mm spacer, you can use the stock lugs.

 

you should be able to get the rear conversion kit, lines and used brembo calipers/rotors for under $1500. that's all you need.

 

I had read, granted 'twas on the interwebz, that many felt the Brembos weren't up to their full potential until after they swapped their master cylinder. That's the only reason why I mentioned it. IIRC the STI MC is mechanically different from the ones in our LGTs, which (supposedly)benefits the Brembos positively. Why do you disagree?

 

I'll keep scouring the internet for Brembos then. Which years should I be looking at? I know some had different rear caliper dimensions.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

some people say that, but its not necessary. the LGT MC can handle the brembos just fine.

 

you want calipers from 02-07 preferably.

 

Rock auto has them for 245 each for the front and 190 each for the rear. so all 4 calipers for about $900. All 4 rotors can be had from them for $200, so all you would need is the rear braket and ebrake shoes, and brake lines.

some people say that, but its not necessary. the LGT MC can handle the brembos just fine.

 

you want calipers from 02-07 preferably.

 

Rock auto has them for 245 each for the front and 190 each for the rear. so all 4 calipers for about $900. All 4 rotors can be had from them for $200, so all you would need is the rear braket and ebrake shoes, and brake lines.

 

And fluid and the mounting bolts for the front Brembos, since they are different than the stockers.

I do:) and they are more brake than any of us will ever need..realistically.. mtn biking? chicago... you work for SRAM? oh and don't listen to anything whitetiger has to say.. these brakes are fine..all I can offer is anecdotal evidence to that statement..

 

No, I don't work for SRAM, I wish though! I'm just a measley bike mechanic...

 

some people say that, but its not necessary. the LGT MC can handle the brembos just fine.

 

you want calipers from 02-07 preferably.

 

Rock auto has them for 245 each for the front and 190 each for the rear. so all 4 calipers for about $900. All 4 rotors can be had from them for $200, so all you would need is the rear braket and ebrake shoes, and brake lines.

 

Whoah1 I was unaware of that. That changes the whole game really... I'll sacrifice the 16" snow compatibility if I can have reman calipers that cheap!

 

So I'm looking at $900 for calipers(whenever rock auto gets them in stock...), say rotors for $300(I'll get centric cryo if possible), and $250 for adapters. Then all I need are pads and lines. Will brembos take stock lines, or are they an altogether different fitting? Sorry for all the questions, but it seems like you know what you're talking about, so I'd rather hear this from you than another dozen contradicting threads.

Brembos will take stock SS brake lines although in the rear you may want to get the KNS "Brembo" lines for the rear which are shorter than the stock lines.

 

http://www.knsbrakes.com/c/caliper-item/2287_Subaru+V1+Rear+STI+Brembo+Caliper+Upgrade+w%2F+Oversize+Park+Brake+Shoes/53553_Rear+Stainless+Steel+Brake+Lines+-+For+Legacy

 

http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv87/JoshEAllen/49447B13-FC6E-466B-9413-4FDBC84D8C83.jpg

You can just see them here.

^this

Better make sure your current wheels will fit over brembos.

Better make sure your current wheels will fit over brembos.

 

 

Word on the street is 10mm spacers and ARP extended studs will do me well. The OBXT already has 17's so I'm good diameter wise. I'm sure the spokes will hit though.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

5mm

5mm

 

 

That small? How much clearance does that leave?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

offset on obxt wheels are 5mm lower than the stock LGT (+53 vs +48)

 

You need at least 7mm.

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/installed-brembo-grand-turismo-outback-46601.html?t=46601&highlight=brembo+outback

offset on obxt wheels are 5mm lower than the stock LGT (+53 vs +48)

 

You need at least 7mm.

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/installed-brembo-grand-turismo-outback-46601.html?t=46601&highlight=brembo+outback

 

 

That looks fantastic, thanks for the link. I'll probably just get 10mm spacers. It'll probably benefit me in these Midwest winters.

 

It looks like I'll do this in two stages. Front, then rear, it'll just be easier on my wallet. In the meantime I'll put more aggressive pads to *attempt* to shift the bias rearward. I think for daily driving it'll be a non-issue anyways.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nissan 300zx calipers with KNS brackets. LGT rotors and 4pot pedal feel, can still fit certain 16's wheels.

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k153/rougeben83/OBXT/IMG_20141116_111908_zpsca9dfe97.jpg

 

What model year 300zx?