Tein Flex Installation....

I have a alot of questions on installing Tein Flex onto my 2.5i SE.

1. I see that the camber plate on the pillowball mounts are not evenly set from the factory and there is a "0" mark on there. Am I supposed to set both sides to 0 until the alignment technician realigns it?

2. Also regarding the instructions for the perch heights are those the "optimized" settings that Tein wants the vehicles set at?

3.How long should I wait until to align the car to allow the springs to settle in?

4. Anyone have pictures of their cars lowered on Tein Flex coilovers?

Really anxious and excited this weekend to install them.

i think the perch height is just a ref value for you to start from and you can further adjust the height from there; not sure about the flex but on my basics the ref value had the car low ridin' so i raised it significantly from that point

prob wait a week before alignment just to let things settle down

and since the ride height is adjustable; ppl would prob run diff ride heights in diff pics so not sure if those would help.

1. Are you running stock camber bolts? I would recommend leaving them at 0 on both sides and when you get the car aligned, request that the technician max out your negative camber with the lower camber bolts.

2. Generally, you should adjust the perch heights a bit. Loosen the perches until the spring gets almost loose, then tighten the perches again to set your pre-load tension for the spring. It is important not to run the ride height way too high or way too low but you have a good range of flexibility. Often the manufacturer provides specs for the proper adjustment range for the perches.

3. I'd recommend driving the car 50 miles or so after you install the suspension. Re-torque the upper bolts on the coilovers and then get the car aligned.

4. Post pics when you get them dialed in. Typically it takes a couple tries to get the pre-load and ride height adjusted just how you want it.

1. Are you running stock camber bolts? I would recommend leaving them at 0 on both sides and when you get the car aligned, request that the technician max out your negative camber with the lower camber bolts.

 

2. Generally, you should adjust the perch heights a bit. Loosen the perches until the spring gets almost loose, then tighten the perches again to set your pre-load tension for the spring. It is important not to run the ride height way too high or way too low but you have a good range of flexibility. Often the manufacturer provides specs for the proper adjustment range for the perches.

 

3. I'd recommend driving the car 50 miles or so after you install the suspension. Re-torque the upper bolts on the coilovers and then get the car aligned.

 

4. Post pics when you get them dialed in. Typically it takes a couple tries to get the pre-load and ride height adjusted just how you want it.

Will do on all of that. Also a quick question does pre-load effect the stiffness and/or ride height of the vehicle?

Will do on all of that. Also a quick question does pre-load effect the stiffness and/or ride height of the vehicle?

YES...it can effect both!

I have found that with the Flexs', it is best to set them to the lowest level of Pre-load and then make small adjustments to ride height using the adjustment for the shock body rather then the pre-load for height...

I also suggest getting the Lifetime alignment form Firestone as then you can make all the adjustments you like and the alignments are all free...it pays off when you have to change things around a few times to get it right...or you have different wheel/settings for different times of the year...

1. Are you running stock camber bolts? I would recommend leaving them at 0 on both sides and when you get the car aligned, request that the technician max out your negative camber with the lower camber bolts.

 

2. Generally, you should adjust the perch heights a bit. Loosen the perches until the spring gets almost loose, then tighten the perches again to set your pre-load tension for the spring. It is important not to run the ride height way too high or way too low but you have a good range of flexibility. Often the manufacturer provides specs for the proper adjustment range for the perches.

 

3. I'd recommend driving the car 50 miles or so after you install the suspension. Re-torque the upper bolts on the coilovers and then get the car aligned.

 

4. Post pics when you get them dialed in. Typically it takes a couple tries to get the pre-load and ride height adjusted just how you want it.

At what level of negative camber do you think the tires will see adverse wear.

I am thinking of getting some all-seasons because summer tires have been eating up my wallet lately haha. I think a few people on here said that -1.3-1.5 shouldn't cause too much abnormal camber wear on the tires, is that true from your experience?

At what level of negative camber do you think the tires will see adverse wear.

 

I am thinking of getting some all-seasons because summer tires have been eating up my wallet lately haha. I think a few people on here said that -1.3-1.5 shouldn't cause too much abnormal camber wear on the tires, is that true from your experience?

yeah I ran -1.5 year round and neither my winter tires nor my summer tires show abnormal wear. I drive fairly fast on corners on the street. My friend was running -3 on the street on his STI and he had some abnormal wear on the insides of the tires. Right now I am running -1.9 for street and track and it seems to be really good. Keep in mind if you are running a stiffer spring rate up front with a big sway bar, you can probably get away with running less static camber. The STI pinks are not that stiff compared to coilover spring rates. I am running more caster than stock too which helps a lot.

Well I have KW Coilovers (Front left needs rebuilding ) and Cobb F/R Sways so you think it is safe to say I could run -1.5 to 1.7 with no problems?

When I was on stock wheels I got -1.2 camber, but when I moved up to 18x8's i could only squeeze out -0.9 on stock camber bolts. I am thinking of using the SPC camber bolts and doing the above once i solve my coilover situation.

Well I have KW Coilovers (Front left needs rebuilding ) and Cobb F/R Sways so you think it is safe to say I could run -1.5 to 1.7 with no problems?

Yeah start with that. Pick up a set of camber bolts which should get you to that ballpark.

YES...it can effect both!

FALSE. Preload only affects ride height and how the suspension travel is split between bump and droop.

 

I have found that with the Flexs', it is best to set them to the lowest level of Pre-load and then make small adjustments to ride height using the adjustment for the shock body rather then the pre-load for height...

The correct way to set them up is to add considerable amount of preload (I'd say compress the spring 1 inch) and adjust the ride height by the height adjustment.

I also suggest getting the Lifetime alignment form Firestone as then you can make all the adjustments you like and the alignments are all free...it pays off when you have to change things around a few times to get it right...or you have different wheel/settings for different times of the year...

Yeah start with that. Pick up a set of camber bolts which should get you to that ballpark.

Agreed.

Btw, I have a set properly sized aftermarket camber bolts that I used with KWs for sale.

The amount of pre-load to run depends on your spring rate. I would start with less pre-load at first (maybe 1/4") and go up from there and experiment. Pre-load will affect ride quality. Too much preload can force the car to absorb bumps without use of the shocks, which is bad.

From http://autospeed.com.au/cms/title_Spring-and-Wheel-Rates/A_2904/article.html

Note that how much the car settles on its suspension will depend not only on wheel rate but also on the spring pre-load, if any. In some suspension systems (eg struts), the springs are compressed and then held captive in that compressed state. Pre-load holds the spring in place when the strut reaches full extension (which occurs when the car is jacked up or the wheels leave the road) but it also means that the car does not settle to the extent that you might first expect when the weight is on the springs.

 

For example, a spring might have a rate of 100 pounds/inch and a free length of 15 inches. When it is mounted on the strut it is compressed to (say) 11.6 inches, and so the pre-load is 3.4 inches. To compress the spring by each inch takes 100 pounds, and so the compressive force acting on the spring when it is on the strut must be 340 pounds (3.4 inches x 100 pounds per inch rate). If there are 665 pounds acting through that corner of the car when the car is stationary, the spring will settle only 3.25 inches, because the first 340 pounds of the car’s weight is needed just to overcome the pre-load. If there was no pre-load, the car would settle by 6.65 inches (665 pounds divided by the 100 pounds/inch spring rate).

The amount of pre-load to run depends on your spring rate. I would start with less pre-load at first (maybe 1/4") and go up from there and experiment. Pre-load will affect ride quality. Too much preload can force the car to absorb bumps without use of the shocks, which is bad.

 

From http://autospeed.com.au/cms/title_Spring-and-Wheel-Rates/A_2904/article.html

False. Except if too much preload means you have no bump travel left and hitting bump stops.

This is good thread on the subject - read LittleBlueGT posts:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100565

People always confuse preload (so I was initially), but it's simpler than everyone thinks.

Again, for linear rate spring, preload DOES NOTHING except adjusting ride height and change relationship between droop and bump travel. It can ONLY affect ride quality by reducing bump travel so you're hitting bump stops or in extreme case by causing coil binding.

False. Except if too much preload means you have no bump travel left and hitting bump stops.

The point I'm making is from a more dynamic standpoint. In any case, I am glad we are working to clear up the mystery of pre-load and allow people to get proper performance from their coilovers.

The problem occurs as the car rolls or lightly loaded tires absorb bumps. Imagine the car leaned over hard in a turn with the inside tires lightly loaded. As the car exits the turn and begins to unroll weight begins transfering back onto the inside tires. If the springs have too much preload the chassis can't unroll until enough weight shifts back to the inside to overwhelm the preload and allow the inside shocks to travel back up into bump. So the chassis wants to settle but it's "stuck" in the rolled over attitude for an instant until enough weight shifts to overwhelm the preload. This means the chassis attitude is not allowed to respond hand in hand with the amount of weight transfer.

 

Imagine the same turn again but with the inside tires encountering small bumps as well. The inside is lightly loaded due to weight transfer so it will take quite a bump to overwhelm the preload and allow the shock to travel into bump. If the bump isn't big enough to overwhelm the preload then the car rolls over even farther as the inside lifts and rides over the bump and at the same time the shock can do no work in dealing with the bump since it isn't moving. At best the bumps will become harsher. At worst the suspension becomes incapable of dealing with them because compliance becomes too harsh and the shocks aren't allowed to work.

 

It's easy to insist that this isn't a real problem because you drop the car off the jack and see the springs compress even if heavily preloaded so you think no big deal. When the car is at speed though weight is constantly transfering around and that is where problems start. With too much preload you're removing compliance from the suspension and at the same time not letting the shocks work as well as they could.

 

Springs are displacement sensitive. The farther you displace them the stiffer they become. Shocks are velocity sensitive. The faster you displace them the stiffer they become. Anytime shock velocity equals zero the shock is doing absolutely nothing. Too much preload can force the car to absorb bumps without use of the shocks. Bad!

I think the suggestion of setting the top plates at zero and adjusting with the camber bolts makes the most sense. If you want to go on the track you dial in some negative camber on the top plates, when your done put them back on zero.

As far as preloading the springs, katalyst and I set his preload pretty high. What they recomended in the instruction sheet set the car way too low for his tastes. I was worried about ride after cranking them up but we were both pleasntly surprised at the ride. They don't seem to droop or hang as much as stock (rebound length) so too much preload would reduce your effective overall suspension travel.

Got the old strut assemblys out and new ones in, in about 45 minutes. Didn't get enough time to adjust the rear preload/height. I tried to follow the Tein instructions for reference value but, for some reason the A B C and D measurements didn't make sense to me. So instead I ended up setting the preload by measuring the spring length loose on the collar and tightening the lower perch to load the spring about 1/2" shorter. I ended up only having time to adjust height on the passenger side. So technically I only have 1 corner complete, so tommorow morning I'll finish the rears. Anyways here's some crappy iPhone pictures of how the car looks so far :x

I think after seeing pictures of the front I think I may lower it a slight bit more.

How long do flex's last for?

I dont want to have to rebuild at every year mark. 600 out of pocket.

How long do flex's last for?

 

I dont want to have to rebuild at every year mark. 600 out of pocket.

It all depends on how hard you drive with them I imagine. For me I drive the 2.5i twice every week since I carpool to work. I would hope for the price they'd last a long time