Nameless Downpipe: Official 5th Gen GT Install Thread

Good points. I should data log for sure, I'm just a tad nervous about inducing over boost again.

I've googled it and seen lots of different opinions on porting, and not enough pictures to feel like I know exactly what to do. For that reason I might just ask a local shop to do it. If we do get a community hot side housing that could make it easier on me too.

I remember Jackal used something as a temporary fix while he was over boosting that he cut.

http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5307367&postcount=546

I hate to say this but I feel like the time for courtesy is over. Maybe I'm wrong but it's become pretty clear that sitting and waiting for them to do something for us is useless. I don't know about you guys, but I'm gonna keep sending them emails and start calling them until they do something. They made over 10,000 dollars off of us and they cant even be bothered to respond to our emails? We shouldn't be politely sitting around waiting for them to act, that time has long since passed. We need to not let them forget about this. Is there even a point to me writing this rant? Is this gonna accomplish anything and give anyone some kind of resolution? Probably not.

Maybe we could convince KRB, or any lawyer who has experience in this area, to give us some pointers as to how to proceed?

I'm not at this point yet. I haven't even tried to install my downpipe, and only a handful of people here have with mixed results, both good and bad. We don't have nearly enough information for any sort of legal recourse (I believe, I'm not a lawyer).

I will admit, however, that I have a potential recourse that no one else from the group buy does: which is to schedule my install with Nameless themselves. Now, I have no idea what Nameless is up to nowadays. But come sometime in January, which is when I should have the available funds for this, I'm planning on giving Nameless a call and seeing if they can fit my car into their schedule. Until I make that attempt, I'm content to just wait and see what additional data we can get through either other installs or when Nameless eventually tests the downpipe themselves.

My ideal solution will be having Nameless revert the downpipe design back to their original version, which includes the angled join of the dump pipe back into the main exhaust. But, I have no leverage to make that happen myself unless I try to install it and see how things shake out.

I should be a good candidate for overboosting. It'll be winter time, so somewhere in the 40's, the tallest point in Portland is less than 650 feet above sea level, and I already own the full TBE Nameless offers (also not yet installed). So if my car overboosts, then I'll already be working with Nameless and the tuner to determine the solution.

What happens when you get into overboost? Do dash lights flash? I have a full Invidia turbo back exhaust with a custom tune from Cam Tuning in Albuquerque. I don't have a Cobb, so I have no way to read how much boost I'm getting. My home is at 7000 ft altitude, so the air is both cold and thin. I got the tune in July when it was hot but have seen no CELs, so should I assume I have no problem?

In your case? You'd plug a laptop in an run a log. In my case? I'd just have a boost gauge set up on my AccessPort.

I'm not at this point yet. I haven't even tried to install my downpipe, and only a handful of people here have with mixed results, both good and bad. We don't have nearly enough information for any sort of legal recourse (I believe, I'm not a lawyer).

 

I will admit, however, that I have a potential recourse that no one else from the group buy does: which is to schedule my install with Nameless themselves. Now, I have no idea what Nameless is up to nowadays. But come sometime in January, which is when I should have the available funds for this, I'm planning on giving Nameless a call and seeing if they can fit my car into their schedule. Until I make that attempt, I'm content to just wait and see what additional data we can get through either other installs or when Nameless eventually tests the downpipe themselves.

 

My ideal solution will be having Nameless revert the downpipe design back to their original version, which includes the angled join of the dump pipe back into the main exhaust. But, I have no leverage to make that happen myself unless I try to install it and see how things shake out.

 

I should be a good candidate for overboosting. It'll be winter time, so somewhere in the 40's, the tallest point in Portland is less than 650 feet above sea level, and I already own the full TBE Nameless offers (also not yet installed). So if my car overboosts, then I'll already be working with Nameless and the tuner to determine the solution.

I have been trying to get my car into Nameless for months now...I don't see how you think they will magically have time for you? The difference is, you would be paying them to do it, not trying to smash your plan, but I have the original design and have never experienced overboost. Why would they try and fit you in with the old design and no miles behind your set-up, other than for the money? Nameless will message me once a month and nothing for a month, so I don't know what to tell you guys. If they get you in, I would still have to come because you don't have original. That would be awesome, but I don't see that happening. You guys should all do what you want at this point, because this has become ridiculous. I didn't pay anything for my setup so it doesn't really bother me waiting until they have time, but if I did pay I would be pissed off as well. Just email them everyday until they respond or call them everyday

I have been trying to get my car into Nameless for months now...I don't see how you think they will magically have time for you? The difference is, you would be paying them to do it, not trying to smash your plan, but I have the original design and have never experienced overboost. Why would they try and fit you in with the old design and no miles behind your set-up, other than for the money? Nameless will message me once a month and nothing for a month, so I don't know what to tell you guys. If they get you in, I would still have to come because you don't have original. That would be awesome, but I don't see that happening. You guys should all do what you want at this point, because this has become ridiculous. I didn't pay anything for my setup so it doesn't really bother me waiting until they have time, but if I did pay I would be pissed off as well. Just email them everyday until they respond or call them everyday

Yeah, I don't know if they'll have time for me. But yes, I'll be paying for the install so I hope we can work something out. I won't know until January, though.

At this point, though, I don't actually care about the original downpipe anymore. I want them to install the one I have. If the car is safe afterwards, great. If it overboosts, then I'll suggest my preference and see where we end up.

Came accoss this thread while rummaging through the Forester forums and thought it was somewhat funny:

http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f207/nameless-performance-exhaust-218026/index47.html

Specifically this post http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/5861338-post694.html

Came accoss this thread while rummaging through the Forester forums and thought it was somewhat funny:

 

http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f207/nameless-performance-exhaust-218026/index47.html

 

Specifically this post http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/5861338-post694.html

Duh, we shouldve just contacted them!

^^^Just a thought here, seeing as how no one can actually get a hold of them at Nameless. Have you thought of just driving up there and asking WTF. I know it is a little bit of a drive, but if I was that close I would not hesitate to drive up there and rattle their cage a bit.

I could, but I don't see how that conversation would go. My problem is that I only have what's posted in this thread, which is all second-hand (from their perspective of me engaging them), and I lack a lot of details that Nameless would undoubtedly want in order to determine what the problem is. We think the issue is the join of the dump pipe to the main exhaust pipe. But I have no evidence of this other than "only a little more than a handful of people installed the downpipe, some said they overboost, and others said they didn't, and you changed the design." I'm not going to win anything with that argument because they're going to ask a bunch of questions about the install and the tune that I'm unable to answer.

The way I see it, I have two options: start to get on their case about testing the revised downpipe on Ryan's car... or just have them install my downpipe on my car. If we can get them involved directly in an install (and I'm willing to wave money in their face once I have it set aside to encourage that), then we cut out a lot of the questions they would otherwise ask. And with a local protuner involved, it should make communication easier to identify and hopefully solve any issues that arise.

This is why I'm not really upset about the situation, yet. I'm disappointed, sure. And I am a little frustrated that there's some feet dragging on testing the revised downpipe on Ryan's car. But I'm not ready to revolt because I don't yet have enough details to be able to really press my case. If they rebuff my attempts to engage them AND rebuff Ryan's attempts to get the revised downpipe tested, then my tolerance for this will start disappearing pretty quickly.

I could, but I don't see how that conversation would go. My problem is that I only have what's posted in this thread, which is all second-hand (from their perspective of me engaging them), and I lack a lot of details that Nameless would undoubtedly want in order to determine what the problem is. We think the issue is the join of the dump pipe to the main exhaust pipe. But I have no evidence of this other than "only a little more than a handful of people installed the downpipe, some said they overboost, and others said they didn't, and you changed the design." I'm not going to win anything with that argument because they're going to ask a bunch of questions about the install and the tune that I'm unable to answer.

 

The way I see it, I have two options: start to get on their case about testing the revised downpipe on Ryan's car... or just have them install my downpipe on my car. If we can get them involved directly in an install (and I'm willing to wave money in their face once I have it set aside to encourage that), then we cut out a lot of the questions they would otherwise ask. And with a local protuner involved, it should make communication easier to identify and hopefully solve any issues that arise.

 

This is why I'm not really upset about the situation, yet. I'm disappointed, sure. And I am a little frustrated that there's some feet dragging on testing the revised downpipe on Ryan's car. But I'm not ready to revolt because I don't yet have enough details to be able to really press my case. If they rebuff my attempts to engage them AND rebuff Ryan's attempts to get the revised downpipe tested, then my tolerance for this will start disappearing pretty quickly.

This is what I have been saying all along! If the people with overboost would have gotten their tuner to contact nameless just for a quick email or phone conversation, maybe this thread would have been helpful by now. Instead the fix has been to bash NP (deservedly so for lack of communication) and install a different DP which is also prone to overboost under the right conditions. We need to get our collective sht together and get this fixed for the rest of you.

Gentlemen,

First off we want to start by saying that we are not trying to ignore you or leave you out in the cold. We had gotten locked out of this account and have now been able to regain access.

So far after re reading every single page and yes we have been reading this every week.

We have seen 2-3 people install these without issue and with a solid tune from a reputable tuner who knows what they are doing and they do not have any issues.

We also have Ryan's car which has been running for a few years with our downpipe and has not had any issues with over boost. He had it tuned at English Racing. On a side note we ask that you not bombard him with questions as he is just trying to be helpful in the situation.

There has been a handful of people who said they have had issues but only one of them provided any solid data on it. Then it seemed this person and his tuner sorted it out then installed an intake and was back to over boosting?

Then we have everyone else who hasn't touched the down pipe complaining it over boost. Well how do you know it does? Have you tried it or are you just reading a story someone had on the forums?

To the people who have tried it and said they had issues. Where are your logs proving that so we can look? What other supporting mods do you have on the car to control boost? We use and recommend the Grim Speed 3 port controller. We use it on all of our race cars here at the shop and never have issues with them.

Keep in mind this downpipe is very complicated to make. If a properly made downpipe is installed on this car it will out flow your factory waste gate the second you get on the gas. This is why you need the correct supporting mods and a tuner who knows how to properly adjust the waste gate duty cycle to make it all work correctly. We have been in contact with English about this and will be posting the information gathered from Ryan's logs.

Currently English's tuner Aaron is having laptop issues and can not record and save data logs. This is part of the reason why we have been unable to get Ryan's car on the dyno to gather supporting data. We are all trying to organize times to meet up and get the car into testing but it can be very difficult with 3 parties who all have conflicting schedules. We are going to come to a conclusion on this. We want you to be happy with this. This is why we do things like group buys to help customers who have rare cars like you guys.

Please understand from our perspective that only 3 of you installed this DP and had no issues. Ryan's car has been running one for years with no issues and then a handful of you came forward suggesting you had experienced over boosting and only one person had supporting evidence there was over boost.

From a business stand point the fact that we only have proof of one issue does not make us eager to refund every order, while we have people that are driving their cars right now with our downpipe installed without issues. We hope you understand our point of view. Like we have explained before, we are not the type of business that ignores theses types of issues. On the other hand we will not just state that we have 3 out there that are working fine, so if you haven't tried it sorry about your luck. We want to help in this process and are doing the best we can with the time and resources we have available.

We are in the process now of getting the information together to help those who claim over boost is an issue. Our companies activities are taking a large portion of our combined time as we are still relatively small, however we are prioritizing this issue and doing what is within our abilities to take action and find a solution. This will take time and we appreciate your understanding in this.

Our racing programs have been growing very quickly, as we are sure some of you have seen on our social media accounts. This takes up a ton of our time and resources. John one of the owners and lead engineers is head of all the racing so he is constantly gone flying all over the US managing race events and ensuring success on all fronts of our racing division. The other owner Jason just had a baby! So he has been very busy doing that. We tell you guys this information because we are a small company, filled with a handful of people just like you, who wants for our customer base to know us more on a personal level and can take pride investing in a product that supports small business as well as some of the best build quality and performance characteristics on the market. Regardless, we are busy and so are you, we understand that and hope that you can work with us on the issues that have been brought forward.

If we truly want to get to the bottom of this please provide us with information from your vehicles so we can analyze the data and address the issue. For those of you who have installed this part reaching out to us with the information would be greatly appreciated.

* Provide us with data logs

* List of supporting mods

* Who tuned it

*List of other mods you have on the car

This will help us immensely in figuring out the issue, we are reaching out to you for your assistance in this matter.

To the guys who have read this forum and not installed it in a fear that your car will over boost. Please sit tight and let the people who have actually tried it get to the bottom of it. Your input does not help with this matter. .

Also to anyone who private messaged this account. We just got all of those when we unlocked this account. We promise we were not ignoring you. Please take note that emailing us is the best form of contact as it will notify us immediately.

Lets all be professional and figure this thing out!

In the mean time we are working with English Racing and Ryan to get a time to do a dyno pull with his car's current setup. Then swap just the DP and touch nothing else then do another pull then plot the two graphs together.

The communities response and the way this was handled has been a huge eye opener for us.

If you need to reach us please talk to our Sales & Costumer support Manager Steven.

Steven.R@namelessperformance.com

Thanks,

The Nameless Performance team

We all have been patiently waiting for test results and have been in contact with you guys , other than the 3 people that have good results with the gb downpipe,me n other have very similar issues,

I sent you guys an email regarding how my tune went , and u replied and asked if I had a ebcs,and if I had oriented the dp as much as I could to the front of the car, n I did both, but orienting the dp towards the front should have been clear from the start seein most people will bolt it up.

So I had a Grimmspeed 3port ebcs

RacerX tmic and nameless axle backs,stock midpipe, and np dp

With a Cobb tuner

And had jarred from pdx tuning tuning my car I believe he is a reputable tuner and has been tuning subarus for over a decade and is a neighbor of yours,

Pls email him for the logs he has them on his laptop under devin 2012lgt

He has tuned a few subarus for me with good results

Now during the tune once he would get into boost it would immediately jump to 24lbs of boost and hit 395 lbs of torque and even with his expertise n tricks of ways to combat it , it couldn't be controlled I had to pay for tune fee350,dyno fee 140 , and 750for the dp ,and 150 to install all wasted n not putting all blame on anyone, but there are others who have had massive overboost issues not just 1-3psi, pls try and email him thru pdx website for the logs I just want a refund I don't have the time or money to redo this n after that that already happened I had to get a new downpipe reinstall n pay for another tune that working with no issues,

I was able to get a invidia catless dp used and all I changed was the downpipe n also added a nameless performance mid pipe ,and not touching anything else

And was able to tune with no problems target boost 19.5 with no over boost issues n got 306whp and 356 flbs

8 is idle 10 is cruise 12 is WOT

datalog10.csv

datalog8.csv

datalog12.csv

Intake: Stock

Inlet: Stock

Downpipe: Nameless Performance DWG Group Buy DP

Up pipe: N/A

Exhaust: Invidia N1 catback

Header: Stock

Intercooler: Racer X TMIC

Octane (ACN91, 91, 93): 93

Turbocharger: Stock, VF54?

Boost Control: 3-port EBCS

Wastegate: Stock

Fuel Injectors: Stock

Fuel Pump: Stock

Recirculating Valve (BPV): Turbosmart Kompact

Other: Racer X Charge Pipe

Tuned by Mike K. from Tuning Alliance

I went to actually see Mike in person and had him sit and do a road tune with me, he said no matter what he tried the car was overboosting. I imagine he can probably provide more of the useful information

The car was also tuned by a local shop in my area called Moore Automotive (who installed everything correctly) first before I went to TA, but would overboost in 4th gear which is why I consulted TA in the first place. I imagine they would also have some logs or information on the install/tune of the downpipe. Heres their website and phone number http://www.mooreautomotive.com/ (703) 352-3535

FWIW I'm providing this info to help you guys find a solution for the others who haven't installed this. Personally I won't be putting the downpipe back on my car. I would however like some sort of refund even if it is a partial one, I'm willing to make a compromise. The fact that you all say "Just wait for us to do the testing" any time someone even mentions the word refund puts a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. I'm not really concerned about what your testing will show, but MY testing shows a product that didn't work as advertised. I can't speak for everyone and I mean no offense to nameless or any of the employees who work there but I'm no longer interested in running nameless parts on my car.

We all have been patiently waiting for test results and have been in contact with you guys , other than the 3 people that have good results with the gb downpipe,me n other have very similar issues,

I sent you guys an email regarding how my tune went , and u replied and asked if I had a ebcs,and if I had oriented the dp as much as I could to the front of the car, n I did both, but orienting the dp towards the front should have been clear from the start seein most people will bolt it up.

 

So I had a Grimmspeed 3port ebcs

RacerX tmic and nameless axle backs,stock midpipe, and np dp

With a Cobb tuner

And had jarred from pdx tuning tuning my car I believe he is a reputable tuner and has been tuning subarus for over a decade and is a neighbor of yours,

Pls email him for the logs he has them on his laptop under devin 2012lgt

He has tuned a few subarus for me with good results

 

 

Now during the tune once he would get into boost it would immediately jump to 24lbs of boost and hit 395 lbs of torque and even with his expertise n tricks of ways to combat it , it couldn't be controlled I had to pay for tune fee350,dyno fee 140 , and 750for the dp ,and 150 to install all wasted n not putting all blame on anyone, but there are others who have had massive overboost issues not just 1-3psi, pls try and email him thru pdx website for the logs I just want a refund I don't have the time or money to redo this n after that that already happened I had to get a new downpipe reinstall n pay for another tune that working with no issues,

 

I was able to get a invidia catless dp used and all I changed was the downpipe n also added a nameless performance mid pipe ,and not touching anything else

And was able to tune with no problems target boost 19.5 with no over boost issues n got 306whp and 356 flbs

Just sent them an email!

I've been tuned on the group buy Nameless DP for 3 weeks now with no signs of over boosting. But....The reason why I went ahead and did the install, risk over boosting, pay for the tune are for the following reasons:

Another local, GB member installed and didn't have any overboost, I am tuned by the same guy, Cryotune.

It's been speculated that running stock cat-back provides enough back pressure to prevent over boost. I'm running OEM cat-back.

I'm also at high altitude, ~5300ft. Another speculation by me that less air, less pressure.

I'm not an expert in tuning, turbos, airflow or an engineer for that matter but Nameless, you need to look at this from a consumers stand point:

1. X number of us were in on the GB.

2. The design we have differs from your original version.

3. Many of us are at sea level and are planning to go full 3" TBE.

4. Many of us were sold under the impression that this was the best DP on the market for our make/model. Produces better flow, higher output numbers than the other brands on the market.

5. I'd say for the majority of us, this is our daily driver. Most don't have a 2nd car as a daily. So if the first few installs reported over boost you need to understand why others aren't moving forward with the install. We need to install the DP, supporting mods or pay someone to do so, schedule and pay for a dyno tune and pray we don't have issues on the dyno. No one will have the time to trouble-shoot while their car is down, consider adding additional support mods, schedule another dyno and paying for all this added work.

6. If you think the cause could be from the tuner or lack of experience from the tuner. Think about it, we're paying good money for someone to tune, we're risking blowing up our motors if the tuner doesn't know what they're doing. Chances are very likely, anyone that is touching/tuning our cars is highly experienced with tuning Subaru's.

So we're looking at you, the manufacturer for input, suggestions, results and a game plan so we can move forward. You can't expect everyone who has the Nameless DP to install, dyno tune, report and later decide whether there's a problem with your design. Now you're asking us to provide the data your responsible for as a manufacturer at our cost (time, money, effort and all of the above).

Hindsight is always 20/20 but if I knew this in advance, I would've bought a Ching-Chong brand downpipe, save a few hundred dollars and never have / had a worry.

Again, I don't have any over boost issues but I think you guys could've done a much better job of designing. Look up my post for the Nameless DP review and you'll see that the 2nd O2 bung requires modifying a heat-shield. 3rd O2 bung is useless and OEM bolt to secure DP midway back doesn't line up.

I think you owe it to us, your customers that got in on this groupbuy to test the current downpipe, provide a clear path for resolution and offer a full refund for those that choose to return and go with another brand.

In a nutshell what this is getting at is 2 things.

1- The consumer anticipated a 'better' alternative to the current marketed downpipes. Under the assumption(s) and test(s) done on Fischbach car. Which were promising.

2- the design was then changed.

With no "testing" of the new product.

Now that's costing the consumer for trial&tribulations as to what Laopadok was saying. When in theory you (Nameless) should have tested the redesign BEFORE bringing it to market. So rather than errors being noticed, it's the members who are 'testing' them for you with mixed results, feelings and money spent for what shouldve been tested beforehand.

Has anyone had a chance to read this forum post?

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/overboosting-issue-catless-downpipe-236467.html

Some already published information about these cars and how they overboost with how the factory turbine housing is designed.

I just read all of this again. So far from reading every comment ive made a list.

This is my list of people who ran our DP with out issue:

Fischbache

Swannee

Dreizehn

Sarang

FlLegacy

laopadak

People with issues

Eckselven. Over bossted on his TBE with fitment issue. Got the fitment issues resolved then took the CBE off reverted to stock and have no overboost issue until you installed a Cobb intake. Was your car re tuned for that intake or did you just slap it on? Do you have logs you can send?

Sm00veM00ve had a cracked housing that was ported, something weird going on with his 20g. Went back to stock and had overboost issue then after being fully tuned and having your tuner tinker with it he got it pretty solid but you still noticed overboost during colder temps? Do you have logs you can send me and also who is your "tuner"?

Haruichi808 Had overboost issues, You also stated you had amateur hour on the dyno and had hose's flying off your car and you may have the EBC hooked up incorrectly. Im sorry but its hard for me to pin point an issue to any part on your car if it doesn't sound like its put together correctly or well. Would advise a professional to do a solid once over on your car. Then I see you installed an Indvida DP and still overboost but its not as much as you saw on ours but its "acceptable"

ApexoftheVortex Had no issues with boost creep. Then sounds like with any fast car you got used to the power and wanted more as do we all! Got a different tune from a totally different tuner then had boost creep issues. Now the finger is pointed at the DP when before on a different tune it was a non issue?

Is there more I didn't see or am missing? Just trying to get all our ducks in a row here.

Also having colder temps will affect any turbo charged car, or turbo/ supercharged anything for that matter. When the temps drop the air condenses thus providing more boost. The hotter the air is the more it will expand and not have as much boost. Same theory a Steam Turbine power plant does. During the Winter months it runs at half capacity but will still produce the same amount the plant does during the summer at full capacity.

Mike from TA who has tuned from what we see two of these dropped some solid info as well

"Report Post Send a private message to Tuning Alliance Find all posts by Tuning Alliance Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Thanks Quick reply to this message

Hey guys, I have tuned a few of these recently and have seen varying results. I was asked by some customers to comment and thought this may be helpful to others. I haven't had much up and close time with a VF54 personally, but its seems the wastegate sizing is a bit too small for the system.I would speculate that variation in the turbine castings is causing some to flow better than others and ultimately work okay while others consistently creep. I have seen the same issue in 15-16 STi's, when a high flowing downpipe is installed severe boost spikes occur (23-24psi) regardless of boost control or flapper position. In extreme cases I have implemented throttle limiting to decrease airflow and boost into the engine. This is the only easy fix aside from reverting to a stock downpipe.

Problem: Insufficient Wastegate flow (mechanical boost creep)

Cause: High flowing downpipe

Potential Fixes:

-Wastegate and/or turbine porting (requires turbo removal)

-External Wastegate (Not practical on 5th gen)

-Electronic limiting of throttle

-Restrictive/stock downpipe

Other suggestions:

-FMIC (may reduce boost and reduce charge temps for a happier engine)

~Mike"

Again talking about how these turbos need porting and the waste gate size is small and when you take that and an extremely free flowing downpipe boost spikes occur.

Talking about different elevation and different climates is all in the tune. This is not new knowledge. Your tuner that is from that area will tune the car to the climate and what the car needs to live.

When we go to races that are all over the US we have to constantly change the cars tune depending on where we are at. You can't expect to be tuned say where we are from in a colder wet climate then when we go to a race in Florida were its super hot and humid the car will perform the exact same. It doesn't and adjustments need to be made.

So far from the very few logs I've seen and had to go out of my way to find or get they are all drastically different from one and another.

We ask who tuned your car for a reason. Being in this industry and talking to hundreds of customers on the daily I hear tons of horror story's about this sick deal this guy got on an e tune and then his cars blows up. Come to find out its Joe Shmo tuning cars out of his mom's basement. There is a small number of tuners I know and trust nation wide. Then there are hundreds more I would never trust since they simply dont have the knowledge or experience. Maybe they can do basic tunes on a wrx/sti fine but not on these Legacy's. They are complicated cars to tune as you have found out.