Convince me - 2.5i vs. VW GLI

Hey all, first post. Let me introduce myself...I've been a pistonhead for the last 17 of my 19 years on earth, I'm in college, and I'm lucky enough that my parents will be buying me a brand new car in the coming few months. I want a manual tranny, fun-to-drive car with personality.

 

After parental bans on some cars and lots of test driving, I've narrowed down my choices to the MT Volkswagen GLI and MT Subaru Legacy 2.5i. Despite reliability concerns, a higher price, and a hideous protruding posterior, I'm leaning toward the GLI. The engine, suspension, and Godly steering wheel really got to me on the test drive.

 

I know this a GT-focused forum, but convince me to buy the Legacy 2.5i! Or just post whatever opinion you have.

 

P.S. Do any of you tall Legacy drivers find that the seating position is too high? That was a big negative in my book...but then again I only spent 10 minutes in the car.

You only need to know 1 thing to convince you to not buy the VW and that is that it's a VW. European cars have a nasty reputation of electrical problems and asshole dealers. A great friend of mine had to wait for 4 weeks for his trans to get repaired. What happened was his CV boots tore so he took it in for warranty repair. A week later, the shaft came loose and busted a hole in the side of the trans due to the goober tech not torquing the nut to spec. 1st problem was it took them 5 days alone to even call him back. 2nd problem, they wouldn't expediate the process even though it was their fault. 3rd problem, each time he called, no one knew anything else and made no effort to find out. Final problem, he found out the car was fixed for 2 days before anyone called him. My stance on VW's is clear cut. Avoid them like the plague. The Subaru is better in snow by a very wide margin (read: no contest), will be much cheaper to maintain in the longrun, and simply isn't a VW. If you can, get into a year or 2 older GT and feel the difference between the 2.5i and the turbo. Then compare the GT to the GLi and it will be clearcut.

The GLI all the way when your only choice is a NA Legacy. The 2.0T VW engine is soooo sweet. Suspension, steering, interior quality all beat the 2.5i. AWD and better reliability are the only Subaru advantages. However, I had way more problems with my '05 Legacy GT than my '06 Audi A3, so go figure.

 

How about insurance costs?

FWIW, I would buy the GLI...it's quicker and very nice...now if you asked about the GLI vs. the LGT...THATS another story.

 

There is a big price difference from the 2.5 to the GLI...why not buy the LGT?

Yeah, I was gonna say, the 2.5i to the GLI is the typical apples to oranges. Get into a GT and then compare. Prices for a 2 year old GT should be damn close to a new GLI. I sat in a friends GLI and can say the seats are pretty comperable between the 2. One thing the VW will beat out the LGT on is audio quality. Somehow, the Europeans can build a kickass stereo into even a low level car.

Where is the GLI made ?? ... Brazil, Mexico, germany ??

 

My German made 2003 1.8T Passat wagon w/ 5sp was uber-nice and had fewer problems than my turbo Subys

I really miss my VW's seats, stereo, steering wheel controls......

^ I completely agree. I got a really really good deal on my lgt on here when I was considering a gti. If I was you and wanted a vdub then I would go with a gti>gli, you can find really good deals on the mkv forums especially on mt gti's! I use to own a golf and do admire german engineering but I love my lgt so you can't go wrong either way just personal preferance. Wheres my other dubber on here, im sure he'll have some imput

Again, how about and LGT...it will dominate a GTI or GLI performance wise, all over the map!

GLI over a 2.5i. GT over a GLI

Before we go rambling off cars, why not find out what parental bans his parents placed?

Forget the 2.5i.

 

My favorite car I have owned is still my old 1988 VW Jetta GLI 16v with the sweet recaro seats, BBS wheels and a incredible handling.

 

I know the new one is a nothing like the old (more cush) but it will be so much more fun. THe 2.5i is fun to but not a GLI.

all this 2.5i bashing is making my eyes rain

 

I would say get the Legacy because my buddies GTI is a complete piece of sh*t except for the engine. It's quick but everything that could go wrong has and they're not cheap to fix. As far as height, I'm about 6'2" and I feel comfortable in mine, although it's pretty much completely lowered (auto seat, I don't know if those are standard on the non limited/SE but it's a good investment if the one your looking at doesn't have it) I hated how little leg room there was originally but I don't really mind it now.

all this 2.5i bashing is making my eyes rain

 

I would say get the Legacy because my buddies GTI is a complete piece of sh*t except for the engine. It's quick but everything that could go wrong has and they're not cheap to fix. As far as height, I'm about 6'2" and I feel comfortable in mine, although it's pretty much completely lowered (auto seat, I don't know if those are standard on the non limited/SE but it's a good investment if the one your looking at doesn't have it) I hated how little leg room there was originally but I don't really mind it now.

 

I can't agree with the whole gti is a piece of sh*t except the engine cause the mkv interior is competative to car 10-15K more then it. The plaid interior is sick on that car. Vw's are made very well so im just curious to see what exactly has gone wrong/ is a piece of crap? Not ragging on you but im damn sure curious.

I can't agree with the whole gti is a piece of sh*t except the engine cause the mkv interior is competative to car 10-15K more then it. The plaid interior is sick on that car. Vw's are made very well so im just curious to see what exactly has gone wrong/ is a piece of crap? Not ragging on you but im damn sure curious.

 

haha sorry to upset, I know that they're not all like that, like I said his is a piece. It's an 03 so it doesn't have the plaid interior, and I completely agree with you that interior is soooo sick. Here's an incomplete list off the top of my head that has gone wrong in the ~3 years he's owned it:

His CD player shorted and that was quoted at $3000 to replace, MPG computer/display crapped out for another $1200 fix, he blew a piston just cruising down a canyon that I can't remember the cost to fix, one of his tail lights stopped working, both headlights burned out at the same time (I know that can happen to any car), and various other minor pieces have come off while cruising, the list goes on. He also hates how hard it is to do anything mod-wise by himself, and envies how open the engine bay is in the legacy and how much easier the car itself is to pull apart. I'm not an anti-VW guy I promise, his car just makes me glad I invested in Japanese engineering

I can't agree with the whole gti is a piece of sh*t except the engine cause the mkv interior is competative to car 10-15K more then it. The plaid interior is sick on that car. Vw's are made very well so im just curious to see what exactly has gone wrong/ is a piece of crap? Not ragging on you but im damn sure curious.

Although I'm not the quoted person, I'll still put in my $.02. I spent 2 1/2 years selling retail parts and for Europeans cars, especially VW's, I've had a lot of requests for electrical parts. Wheel speed sensors, MAF sensors, alternators are a big one along with coil packs, output shaft speed sensors and they've all been on cars no more than 3-5 years old. If anyone needs convincing about this, here's plenty of reading: http://myvwlemon.com/

Before we go rambling off cars, why not find out what parental bans his parents placed?

 

True dat. To everyone who suggested a LGT, it would have been my first choice but the 'rents gave an absolute no to the "too fast" LGT. Not to mention that a new one is around $30K, while a GLI could be had for 5 grand less.

 

Bolksey85, I haven't really heard the stereos...the VW has a better system than the Harmon Kardon in the Legacy?

 

So I suppose it comes down to a tradeoff of power/fun vs. beauty/reliability?

GLI is more comparable to the LGT, do try the LGT and report back...

 

 

A better comparo would be Jetta vs. 2.5i:

I almost bought a Jetta, but ended up choosing the 2.5i with no regrets.

Interiors were about par, the road feel/handling of the VW was better, but the subie's engine was much nicer. The Jetta's 2.5 litre was like a cube van engine with none of the advantages.

 

The steady stream of complaints from friends with recent VWs ranging from minor trim niggles, electrical, to full tranny replacement kinda scared me away. But they still like their VWs, so I suppose that says something.

 

The Leggy looked better, too- for once a japanese car's styling beat a euro at its own game

 

 

 

Then there's the AWD.

If you live someplace where there's snow, the Subie will put a smile on your face.

And to quote a guy from that lemon board:

*2004 GTI VR6

*Serviced Only at VW Dealers, no gaps in the service history.

*Transmission Bearing Failure at 60k (right after warranty expiration (lame f'in warranty).

*VW USA Customer Care? Told me I'm SOL. Won't help at all. Don't care at all. Took 5 days for them to say I'm SOL because I'm 550 miles past 60k.

*Cost? $3,800 before tax.

*Failures in the last year? Fuse Box (the entire thing melted), both cooling fans ($900 after tax), lever for opening the hood (apparantly a very complex high tech piece of f'in plastic. How hard is this to design. Oh. My. God.

*200 Suburu Outback, 130,000 miles, one failure. One. Headgasket. When? 130,000k. How f'in hard can it possible be to make a car get to 100k in one piece. Seriously. It's f'in 2008!!!!!!!!!!!!

*Bottom line? This is my fifth, and last VW/Audi product, and I will never recommend them to anybody again (I've referred three people to Audi in the last year. All three bought. I'll never, ever, ever do it again).

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Why did I ever leave Suburu? Why? Why!!!!! I'm an idiot.

As far the stereo is concerned, I've never heard the HK in a Legacy. But, comparing my base model stereo to a friend's stereo in a GLI, no contest, he wins.

I know that VW's are very prone to electrical issues, but the GTI VR6 you quoted is last-gen...I don't know how that stacks up to the Mk.V.

Although I'm not the quoted person, I'll still put in my $.02. I spent 2 1/2 years selling retail parts and for Europeans cars, especially VW's, I've had a lot of requests for electrical parts. Wheel speed sensors, MAF sensors, alternators are a big one along with coil packs, output shaft speed sensors and they've all been on cars no more than 3-5 years old. If anyone needs convincing about this, here's plenty of reading: http://myvwlemon.com/

 

I will definately agree with you that vw has electrical issues. On the mkv gti coil packs were the most common problems I saw. Also the pcv/diverter valve also were problems under the hood. And yeah the older gti's aren't as spiffy and nice as the mkv but I would most deff still drive one. I really like the mkiv style as I owned a golf and wished I had the power of a gti. Sorry OP for getting off topic, now back to the kids needs if he ever posts back on here.

Since you can't have the LGT (which would have been my recommendation, too), go look at a 2.5i Limited. I priced out the GLI against my Limited daily driver and the GLI is around $4K higher. If your "'rents" are that involved in the selection process, my guess is that they'd want the Limited for the following reasons:

1. It's cheaper.

2. It takes regular gas.

3. It gives you all the amenities, from leather to HK sound, including 6-CD player.

4. It gives you enough power without them worrying that you might have a serious accident (although more HP shouldn't prevent you from driving safely).

5. It has an all-around five-star crash rating vs. four-star frontal for the GLI.

6. Reliability is probably better and service costs are probably lower.

7. You can do suspension mods and still come out at a lower cost than the GLI.

 

You'll have to sacrifice the manual, but you'll be getting a good-looking, tossable, economical sedan with all the bells and whistles that are extra-cost options on the GLI. Check it out.

You also have the H6 option. Still not a turbo but that motor is like silk going down the road.

...but the 'rents gave an absolute no to the "too fast" LGT. Not to mention that a new one is around $30K, while a GLI could be had for 5 grand less.

 

 

Well, my parents never bought me a car when I was 19 and I sure as sh!t won't be buying my sons a car when they are 19. However, are your parents aware that the GLI has a 200 HP turbocharged engine and is pretty much as quick as the Legacy GT?

 

I wanted all wheel drive so that's why I purchased a Subaru but the GLI is a very nice car. You really can't lose.

Thank you all for your opinions, every little bit helps.

 

longislander1, manual is necessary...I find it fun and involving. And I don't care about any of the frills in the Limited; I'd rather have an SE for less cash.

 

gf2020, my parents know how fast the GLI is, and they're juuust ok with it. Probably because of the LGT's relatively high peak hp they think it's too fast...and again, it's even more money.