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LawGT

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This past weekend was my first experience in the snow with these Kumho ASX's.

 

They were fantastic in the snow. Better than the 92's.

 

The ASX's are worn to about 5/ 32nds. They suck in snow now, the are getting LOUD, the tread squirm on the highway is getting annoying and the flat spotting problem is much more pronounced.

 

Still worth 80 bucks a copy though.

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#1) BF Goodrich G-force Super Sport A/S 215/45/17

 

$455.96 for mount, balance, disposal of old tires, etc at Costco (had to special order, this size is never in stock here, there was a tire sale of $60 off for 4 Michelins that got applied to the special order, don't ya love it?)

 

#2) Western Montana

 

#3) No special events other than everyday life; often have the wagon loaded with gear

 

#4) 50:50 city and highway with some gravel roads and lots of bad pavement (potholes and frost heaves); also, in the winter our roads aren't salted, they're "sanded" which is a secret code for "gravel over ice"

 

#5) Replaced the OEM Potenza RE92s (at approx 43k miles on the wagon)

 

#6) These tires were a real surprise and I really like them (had to order them sight unseen). They handle well and thankfully are quiet on dry pavement at 45 mph around town. I commute once a week 125 miles each way, an hour is on I-90 and the other hour is mountainous (two-lane state hwy over the Continental Divide). We've had lots of snow and ice lately, anywhere from -20F to 35F days and nights and I liked the RE92s all this time but I like these tires better.

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I dont think these are great tires, but I think that your stability complaint can be addressed by changing your tire pressures - I'm going to guess that your rears have too much air in them, compared to the front. I'd suggest trying 39 front and 37 rear, then 41 front and 39 rear. If neither of these works, then decide whether you liked the 39 or 41 front better, and set your rear another two lbs lower - so 39f and 35 rear or 41 front and 37 rear.

 

See how you like those settings.

 

Keep in mind, too, that replacing the terrible RE92's with something decent may simply be highlighting something you don't like about the car. A stiff rear end is hard to believe - the car's rear is too soft, if anything. but maybe you are realizing that what you need is some suspension work.

 

:D

 

#1) What tire are you offering for review (size, model, type (summer, A/s, winter, race, etc), price paid, miles driven on tires, etc):

Continental Extreme Contact 215/45 ZR 17 (A/S)

Paid about 95/per from TireRack.

Have about 8k miles on them

 

#2) What is your geographic location: SW Missouri (Ozarks)

 

#3) What types of driving events if any (Track, AutoX, Commute ;), etc): Just spirited commuting w/ occasional long trip

 

#4) Percent of highway vs. city driving: 80/20 highway/city

 

#5) Tires used previously: Stock RE92s

 

#6) Your review and personal comments (Dry, wet, and snow, if applicable. Also, please compare to other tires used):

 

Overall: Grip is good in dry/rain/snow/ice. (well, good as can be expected on ice). In the dry, grip is very progressive and there is increasing squeal as I reach the limits (for example on a cloverleaf). Tires continue to fight for grip without letting go suddenly -- I really like this. Beacuse of this you can handle bumpy corners without suddenly losing grip -- the car keeps its poise. Very predictable tires.

 

Issues: The things I absolutely hate about these tires and have me considering alternatives for the next set, as soon as I can get these to wear out:

 

--- Stability: The car is not very stable at speed on the highway. It wanders around in the lane, as much as 2-3 feet either way without giving me any feedback. It's almost impossible to put the car where I want it. It's just not planted. This behavior was better with the RE92s. However the issue with the RE92s as that snow grip sucked, and they flex too much in corners.

 

-- Availability: These tires are almost impossible to find outside of the internet/mail order channels. NO ONE seems to carry them. So if you're on a long trip and get an unrepairable flat, you're gonna be stuck while new tire(s) get delivered, unless you want to ante up for a new set, usually at expensive local-dealer / just-off-the-highway prices. IF YOU'RE GOING TO BUY 4 OF THESE, YOU REALLY SHOULD BUY 5. They're cheap, it will be worth it. Trust me. I'm on my 7th tire in 6 months, so I know of which I speak.

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I have 2005 LGT 5MT with 34K miles.

 

I switched to the Kumho ECTSA ASX tires (225 45 17's) and

I was very disappointed. They did performed about the same as the original tires. I don't put many miles on my car

(About 6,000 per year) and the thought of driving with them for many years, I decided to switch again after 1,000 miles.

 

I had heard a lot of good things about the Kumho tires and wanted to

give them a fair shot. So I switched to the ECTSA SPT tires. (225 45 17's)

 

I have had them about a week and so far I am extremely impressed.

The cornering ability improvement is dramatic. The braking is also

noticeably better. I paid $87 per tire and about $50 for mount and balance.

 

I feel like it was a great deal for the money. If I can get 20K miles or more

and the handling stays consistent then I will be very pleased with them.

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I dont think these (Contis) are great tires,...

 

I meant to respond to tantal post but forgot.

 

The Contis are not in the same league as the 050s, for instance, as a dedicated summer "performance" tire. Then again the 050s cannot do what the Contis can.

 

The Contis are an excellent urban winter tire. Z rated and pretty good in the dry but where they absolutely shine is in snow and wet. There are those who even use them to good account in western mountains. I would trust them there too though I would definitely get dedicated snows if i were tooling around in the Rockies on regular basis. If the temp gets into the sunny 70s come springtime, you aren't going to ruin them. If you change them up for summer rubber around Easter (in my neck of the woods), they won't get cooked and lose their cold weather ability.

 

A word of warning is necessary however. The Extremes are an excellent four seaon directional tire. True snows are not directional. The Contis will get you going and keep you going in heavy weather but snow stopping and turning are not their forte. In snow, their directional design works best in forward grip. Turning and stopping in snow is, however, average IMHO. They are fantastic in slush and rain but that doesn't translate to thread clogging snow conditions where true snows will have a definite advantage. Of course, if you use true snows on that warm spring day on the freeway for 4 or 5 hours, you've probably half way ruined them for snow.

 

FWIW

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Yokohama Avid W4S

 

Bought a set from tirerack recently for $101 each. Size 225/45ZR17, 91W. Falls under the ultra high performance category from them. These replaced my OE Bridgestone RE92s, which look like they've been on since the car was bought. I have just under 40K miles my 05 LGT 5MT, and I'm in NYC.

 

Recently got these as a replacement for the OE Bridgestone RE92. Noise has improved somewhat. The remaining noise in the car I attribute to to the car itself, not the tires. I've noticed some increase in tramlining, but am unsure if it's the tire itself, or the fact that I went from a 215 to 225 width tire, or a combination of both. Car feels more responsive. In light snow, I had no problem getting around, but I'm sure some of it has to do with my car's AWD. Haven't had any experience in deep snow yet. In rain, the car feels more confident than my OE tires also, and under hard braking, the tires are less likely to lock up and cause the ABS to activate. Overall, I am happy with the tires, but I may change my mind after I'm completely settled into my car and start driving it much harder than I am now. Will post an update later on. I have to say that the price of these makes them very attractive. Will post an update some time later in the year when I have something to add.

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True snows are not directional. Of course, if you use true snows on that warm spring day on the freeway for 4 or 5 hours, you've probably half way ruined them for snow.

 

Well, I hope someone tells Bridgestone about this obvious problem with Directional Snows. The LM-25 and the WS-60, both excellent snow tires, are both directional. Dunlop is also going to be pissed when they realize the M3 and 3D snow tires are sub-standard due to their directional design.

 

Also, for a performance oriented snow tire, H or V rated, it isn't going to hurt them to drive them for a few hours in 70 degree weather. I didn't worry last year until it started hitting 80+. Even at that, one day didn't do any harm, but I wouldn't make a habit of it. That's why I got a spare set of wheels so in a pinch, I could just swap wheels with the tires already mounted.

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Nokian's Hakkas are also directional, if memory serves.........

<-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges

'16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family

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Well, I hope someone tells Bridgestone about this obvious problem with Directional Snows. The LM-25 and the WS-60, both excellent snow tires, are both directional. Dunlop is also going to be pissed when they realize the M3 and 3D snow tires are sub-standard due to their directional design.

 

Also, for a performance oriented snow tire, H or V rated, it isn't going to hurt them to drive them for a few hours in 70 degree weather. I didn't worry last year until it started hitting 80+. Even at that, one day didn't do any harm, but I wouldn't make a habit of it. That's why I got a spare set of wheels so in a pinch, I could just swap wheels with the tires already mounted.

 

It's a matter of personal opinion that "true" snows are not directional.

 

The key advantage of any directional tire....summer, a/s, or whatever.....is that they are beter at evacuating water on wet surfaces. A definite plus in many conditions.

 

From what I've found, the biggest probem with the LGT is a lack of ground clearance. And this was BEFORE I put on the Ksport coilovers.

Ron
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Well, I hope someone tells Bridgestone about this obvious problem with Directional Snows. The LM-25 and the WS-60, both excellent snow tires, are both directional. Dunlop is also going to be pissed when they realize the M3 and 3D snow tires are sub-standard due to their directional design.

 

Directional tires are excercises in compromise as are all tire designs. The directional design is primarily to increase gas mileage and wet performance at the expense of tread life.

 

True snows will have an asymetrical design so that grip and is maximized for lateral, accelerative and decelerative forces on snow. They will also be rated H and lower because the tread design is for snow and not high speed. Many winter tires sold now are directional and are advertized as "winter performance" and not "snow tires" despite the performance icon indicator . However, if you look at true snows for light trucks seeing severe duty you'll see tread designs like this:

4_not_2.jpg.d4cf65ad8ab31dda1496371547639084.jpg

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#1) 225/45x17, Michelin Pilot Sport All-Season on stock wheels, $780.00 Mounted/Lifetime Balance (at Discount Tires), 31,000 miles on Set 1 (w/about 10K left in the tread) about 1,000 miles on Set 2 replacements

 

#2) San Diego (SoCal metro and mountains)

 

#3) Commuting, Canyon Carving, light tracking (hopefully)

 

#4) Percent of highway vs. city driving: 70/30

 

#5) Original OEM RE92A; folby Conti Extreme Contact AS (too much tramlining), folby MPS PS-AS, folyby MPS PS-AS.

 

#6) Dry, wet, snow (live for snow) - all excellent.

  • Dry - absolutely no tramlining which on SoCal roads is immediately noticeable if the tires tend this direction, i.e., Conti EC ASes. Corners very linearly, turn-in is crisp and precise and makes for some fantastic on-ramp and canyon carving moments. Woot!
  • Wet - Love this tire in the rain. Unlike with the RE92Aes, I don't tense up when I see standing water, the car doesn't pull or dive when you hit large freeway puddles or collected water at the road edge. They just sipe it off and keep going. Standing starts and traction on rain-slicked roads feels just like on dry roads. The harder you push them, the more they "bite" and really communicate well what's going on at the tire contact.
  • Snow - Ah, snow. Had a huge Valentine's Day snowstorm hit the county here and we got to the mountains, just ahead of the road closures (you can read about it here: http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1710713&postcount=125). We were in 6-8" deep, unplowed snow (with some ice underneath) and had no problems starting, stopping (on serious uphill and downhill stretches) and getting around where others were hung-up, stranded, or otherwise unable to move. Compared to the RE92s and the CEC ASes, the MPS ASes are as different as night and day. The MPSes grip and keep gripping, where I never felt confident on the previous tires. Even on icy roads - Another time, we were again in the mountains and it was raining and freezing. While the ambient temps didn't indicate freezing temps, the road surface was freezing. I couldn't even tell that the road was slippery until I did a 2nd gear "romp" and felt the wheels churn a bit. I let off the gas, and the car immediately straightend out at which point I locked the brakes and with no drama, it stopped quickly and straight - something that would never happened with the RE92As or the CEC ASes.
  • Braking - Another strength. These tires will quickly bring you to a halt, even taxing the Anti-lock system in dry, wet and snow situations. Again, very linear and resonsive to brake inputs
  • Trade-off - the tires are marginally less quiet than the RE92s and the CEC ASes and they feel slightly heavier (could be the 225 size vs the stock 215 size) - but you quickly get over that when you realize what you're getting in return.
  • Treadwear - How many ZR rated tires, sport-driven, will last 40,000 miles? Like I mentioned above, I had 31,000 miles on my original set of MPS ASes and could have gotten another 10K miles out of them, but wanted to be ready for the rain and the snow season, so changed them out for a new set. Balanced every 5K miles and run at 38F/36R pressures unless I'm towing, then I run 38F/40R.

While I researched all of the possible replacements, I felt that for value vs. performance, longevity and safety, there was nothing on the market that compared as favorably, and bought a second set to replace the first. I will be putting these on my 18 x 7.5" BBS RGRs as well when these wear out.

 

Hope this stayed true to the OP's orginal intent.

SBT

mi_pilot_sport_as_ci1_l.jpg.9382414919e46a2d331ce34ec05080da.jpg

mi_pilot_sport_as_ci2_l.jpg.89bb058b7541e08222adea81f49c8d57.jpg

- Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum -
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#5) Conti Extreme Contact AS (too much tramlining),

 

I have never experienced tram lining with my Contis though I do keep them at fairly high pressures. Of course, we don't have the siped freeway surfaces in Chicagoland for the most part. Then again, I wouldn't pick Conti EC for a year round AS in SoCal unless I was in the mountains most of the time. The tread is too aggressive for high temp roads. If you see some snow in your area, only then would Contis be appropriate for year round use, IMHO.

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I have never experienced tram lining with my Contis though I do keep them at fairly high pressures. Of course, we don't have the siped freeway surfaces in Chicagoland for the most part. Then again, I wouldn't pick Conti EC for a year round AS in SoCal unless I was in the mountains most of the time. The tread is too aggressive for high temp roads. If you see some snow in your area, only then would Contis be appropriate for year round use, IMHO.

 

Running them at stock and even higher pressures (39F/37R), the tramlining was just too much - think tired after driving from fighting the wheel more often than not. And rainy, wet roads with high winds really exacerbated this feeling. At first I thought it had to be alignment, but everything is spot on and it's the same alignment I use with the MPSes. It just got to the point where it was too much bother and I traded them in. Definitely did not feel as confident on snow and ice as the MPS ASes, but that's possibly due to regional road/temp differences. Perhaps in really cold climes, the MPSes wouldn't be any better (or worse) than the CECs. Dunno. Just know that for SoCal snow, I really like the grippy tread blocks and the ice compound in the MPSes better..

SBT

- Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum -
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Directional tires are excercises in compromise as are all tire designs. The directional design is primarily to increase gas mileage and wet performance at the expense of tread life.

 

True snows will have an asymetrical design so that grip and is maximized for lateral, accelerative and decelerative forces on snow. They will also be rated H and lower because the tread design is for snow and not high speed. Many winter tires sold now are directional and are advertized as "winter performance" and not "snow tires" despite the performance icon indicator . However, if you look at true snows for light trucks seeing severe duty you'll see tread designs like this:

 

Do you have to work at being such a tool, or does it just come naturally?

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Running them at stock and even higher pressures (39F/37R), the tramlining was just too much - think tired after driving from fighting the wheel more often than not. And rainy, wet roads with high winds really exacerbated this feeling. At first I thought it had to be alignment, but everything is spot on and it's the same alignment I use with the MPSes. It just got to the point where it was too much bother and I traded them in. Definitely did not feel as confident on snow and ice as the MPS ASes, but that's possibly due to regional road/temp differences. Perhaps in really cold climes, the MPSes wouldn't be any better (or worse) than the CECs. Dunno. Just know that for SoCal snow, I really like the grippy tread blocks and the ice compound in the MPSes better..

SBT

 

In all honesty, I have never experienced the characteristics you describe. Could be you had a bad tire in your set.

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Vimy101 -

 

That's most interesting, and I concur with your observation that the light-truck/SUV segment tire design (tread pattern) is distinctly different from ours (i.e. passenger vehicles).

 

I wonder why this is so....

 

The tires that I'm looking at in this particular discussion - that of "true snows" - are not of the "performance winter" genre (of which I lump tires such as the WinterSport 3D and M3, Icebear W300, LM-25, etc.), instead, I'm looking at the "one step further" tires....the "studdable winters," such as the Nokian Hakkas.

 

Why the difference between the two?

<-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges

'16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family

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^ The thing about true snows is that they are designed to work well in either direction, are not meant for high speed, performance driving and will quickly degrade on dry roads. However, as in all things tires, everything involves some amount of compromise. A symetrical design won't perform as well in wet/slush as a directional tire for instance.
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  • 1 month later...

#1) Michelin HyrdoEdge, All Season 205/55/16 (yes i know... 2.5i :( )

 

#2) Hell. Fargo, ND.

 

#3) Just normal driving, some auto-x, and some performance comparison against my friends e30.

 

#4) city 60% highway 25% gravel 15%:

 

#5) On this car: The RE92's (didn't think they were that bad till it snowed then i didn't really like them to much till spring) On other cars: Arizona silver editions (on a maxima, great tire, quiet and somewhat grippy), goodyear eagles(durango.... its an suv and yeah.... that explains it), toyo proxes 4's (some sets seem to wear out faster than others, but nonetheless you get what you pay for), random yokohama truck tires.

 

#6) we will use the rating scale!

Grip vs re92's - Very similar but did have to go down a speed rating to get these tires (i rarely drive higher than 75 for more than 5-10 minutes at a time) so i'm guessing thats what hurt the sidewalls a little bit, id say they have the same grip if not slightly more once the car gets settled.

Rain - don't notice it, these tires are absolutely superb in the rain and id say grip improves if i wasn't stupid.

Road noise - Compared to....... sitting still loud. Quiet enough that you can't hear them with the window down at 40 or with the window down or radio on 6-8 on the interstate.

Life: can't really give an accurate description of this, they still look new to me after ~10k miles which is supposidly 1/9th their life span.

hydroedge.jpg.97fc759ac5bdb6e41ace0f99854208dd.jpg

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#1. Yokohama Advan S.4 225/75/17. $760 at americas tire. 24K on original stockers. Couldnt stand the noise anymore.

#2. So Cal ( home of the concrete highway for extra noise)

#3. Normal spirited driving

#4. 25% city. 25% highway. 50 % well maintained country roads.

#5. RE 92 noisemakers.

#6. Grip as well as stockers

Noise is WAY down on the stockers. Makes the car really enjoyable.

Wet Grip. Live in So cal so no rain till fall but highly rated on Tirerack.

Snow. Dont care.

Life. If i get 25K i will be happy.

 

If you upgrade your steryo and Pay for Dynomat then you need these tires.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Howdy Folks, Here's my sad tire story;

 

Got tired of OE tires lousy wet weather (read hydroplaning on dewy mornings) performance and the ease of which their sidewalls will shred when faced with New Jersey potholes. So, I upgraded to Dunlop SP Sport Maxx tires after 35K miles and three sidewall failures, and several other punctures. I've never used a donut so many times or for so many accumulated miles on any car, or lifetime before this car. Sooooo......

 

1.) Dunlop Sport Maxx 215x45x17 XL load rating from the Gods that are the Tire Rack for $125 each and a $50 rebate if you buy a set of four. So far only 200 miles, but the lateral grip in the dry is much better and I think the braking is better too. I have the braided stainless brake lines and I feel, without objective measures, that I can lean on the brakes harder without ABS intervention.

 

2.) Central Jersey Coastal area.

 

3.) So far just everyday suburban New Jersey combat driving. (If you live here you know what I mean.)

 

4.) 90% highway/local, 5% city.

 

5.) OE's that came on the 06 LGT. Bridgestone RE92's. Uggggh, what bleeping bleep. They were tolerable on my 98 LGT in 16 inch size, even in the rain, but on this car ohmyf*&%*#god they just s$%^!

 

6.) Please see comments #1 and #5.

 

Thanks for letting me vent and have a nice day.

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Follow-up to my review of my winter combo:

 

Dunlop SP WinterSport 3Ds in 225/45/17 sizing, on 17x7.5 Sport Edition A7s (one of TireRack's many '04 WRX-STi fitment winter packages).

 

Current set pressures are 39F/37R, cold (increase of 2PSI, all-around, see below).

 

----

 

Written on my TireRack Review of these tires, dated March 21, 2008:

 

Bumped tires up to 39/37, cold (F/R). Feels more stable on dry /wet roads, as well as seeing noticeably better stability through standing water. Snow tracking is also more sure-footed, with what feels like much better slush evacuation.

 

I recently tested these tires, on my car, at significantly lower pressures than initial fill - 34/32 - and traction was noticeably and significantly worse in snowy/slushy conditions than at initial fill (37/35). Even with pressures so far beyond optimal, though, their performance under such wintry conditions were still significantly better than any "All Season" tire I have ever driven.

 

----

 

Current update -

 

With projected temperatures for the next 10 days of the month being well above 50 degrees, during any part of the day when I'm likely to drive, and with no wintry precip. in the forecast, I've decided to dismount my winters in favor of my summer setup.

 

As such, this will be my last update on these tires until next season.

 

Recent temperatures have ranged in the 50s to high-60s/low-70s during the day, and I've had some chances to get a feel for how the 3Ds perform under such conditions (dry only, unfortunately).

 

They're quite a bit more squirmy than the typical "High" or "Ultra-High Performance All Season," when pushed. However, even so, they still performed admirably, and I never felt, for even one bit, "unsafe." Lateral grip, under these warmer conditions, it felt to me, is decreased not-insignificantly when compared to a similar "Ultra-High Performance All Season" setup. Straight-line, though, I'm hard-pressed to notice much difference.

 

Driven in a more conservative manner (i.e. anything typical of what I would imagine 90% of the motoring public would consider to be within safe bounds), I have no doubt that none of said bad behavior would manifest. Therefore (treadlife notwithstanding, as I am currently ill-equipped to make this judgment), I believe that these tires can very safely be run for 6 months (between, say, November to May) as a true "everyday driver."

 

Total mileage so far is just over 3K.

 

Looking at treadwear, I have at least 3, if not 4 more seasons worth left in them. By that time, dry-rot will have done their job! :lol:

 

---------------------------------------------

 

Summer setup revisited:

 

Hankook RS-2 Z212, sized 225/40/18. On Prodrive PFF-7, 18x8 +51.

 

Fill pressures 40/38, F/R, hot.

 

No true update, yet -> just wanted to say I forgot how much fun summer tires could be. :lol::eek::wub:

<-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges

'16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family

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  • 1 month later...

#1) falken fk-452 max performance summer...225/45/17...$655CAD @ discount tire city (richmond hill)...~1500kms since install.

(http://www.falkentire.com/xhtml/tires.php?category=3&tire=1)

 

#2) 905

 

#3) no driving events. spirited daily driver.

 

#4) 70/30 city/hwy

 

#5) Michelin Pilot HX MXM4 (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+HX+MXM4)

oem tires for the 05 acura tsx.

 

#6)

100% upgrade in all variables.

sticky as hell in dry.

sticky in wet.

stiff sidewalls.

non-issue for winters, as i have dedicated winter tires.

been watching tread wear, and it has been a non-issue, as i do have suspension mods. best "bang for you buck" upgrade for a stock tsx by far.

to date, i have yet to chirp these tires, in either dry or wet conditions. this was the opposite experience with the oem michelins.

i love these tires.

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