help adjusting rear camber

The Whiteline Kits are definitely worth looking into. They both can get you more camber. The KCA399 is a bushing replacement so remember that the install is not a straight forward. The control arms is more plug and play but do take into account the arms are prone to rust and should be anti-seized properly. Both M Sprank and we can get you those parts. Mike is a great guy to deal with and do highly recommend.

As other people have asked, why are you looking for the camber? The stock Spec B wheels fit fine.

-Jake

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg

AIM: AZP Installs | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Dealer

"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

I wouldn't go more than -1 degree in the rear. More than that will induce understeer that will require possibly excessive neg camber in the front to compensate.

Street cars should understeer.

Street cars driven by old ladies should understeer:)

I disagree.

If you are going fast enough to worry about understeer on the street, you are being reckless.

I couldn't agree less.

Street cars should be neutral and understeer at the limit. No matter how good a driver you think you are, you aren't. If you are going off the road, go straight and let the car impact as designed.

If you are going fast enough to understeer through a corner, you are driving far too recklessly.

The $45 bushes will get you "a bit more negative camber." Figure on $250 total, installed with an alignment. Going with the arms will save you maybe $50 on the install, so probably $600 final cost. If you're not racing, or not trying to correct something outside of OEM tolerances, then don't bother with the arms.

If you already have around -.5 in the rear, save your money (again, unless you're racing).

I couldn't agree less.

 

Street cars should be neutral and understeer at the limit. No matter how good a driver you think you are, you aren't. If you are going off the road, go straight and let the car impact as designed.

 

If you are going fast enough to understeer through a corner, you are driving far too recklessly.

So, your advice is to just run straight off the road and hope the air bag doesn't mess up your perm? No offense, but this reminds me of something Dale Earnhart once said. "Why don't you just tie kerosine soaked rags around your ankles so that the ants can't crawl up your legs and bite your candy ass."

What Bac is saying is something that goes back to track driving. When you over cook a turn and are about to go off, the safest thing to do is go straight off with the brake and clutch despressed. If you attempt to correct and go off sideways you run the risk of hitting something in a less the optimal area, and could cause more injury to yourself or passengers. If you go from tarmac to dirt while sliding sideways off you could flip the car and again be in a worse situation. But if you are going that fast on a road then you are already in over your head.

Back on topic though. If you are going to do the arms, get a good metal saw. The arm's bolts will be rusted, and we normally have to cut them out. Is it hard, no. Is it fun, hell no. If you are only looking for that little bit extra the bushing should be all you need and you are only looking into fighting 1 set of bolts, not 2.

-Jake

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg

AIM: AZP Installs | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Dealer

"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

I am running -2 degrees right now with the KCA399. When I do my next round of bushings up front, I'll have a little more time and pull some camber out of the rear. I'd rather run -1.2 degree out back and -1 up front.

With respect to crashing, Jake said exactly what I was talking about. Knowing how to crash is almost as important as knowing how to drive. Always hit with the front of the vehicle, and as squarely as possible. That's how you stand the highest chance of survival without injury. Overconfidence in your ability to drive, is a sure-fire way to wind up wrong-ways off the road and in a bad spot.

What Bac is saying is something that goes back to track driving. When you over cook a turn and are about to go off, the safest thing to do is go straight off with the brake and clutch despressed. If you attempt to correct and go off sideways you run the risk of hitting something in a less the optimal area, and could cause more injury to yourself or passengers. If you go from tarmac to dirt while sliding sideways off you could flip the car and again be in a worse situation. But if you are going that fast on a road then you are already in over your head.

 

Jake...I don't know how much track experience you have, but you appear to have a misunderstanding about the reason for going "both feet in" (locking it up) at the moment control is lost. The reason for locking the brakes is to make the subsequent path of the car more predictable - not to influence which part of the car hits first. With the brakes locked, the car will continue in more or less a straight line. With the wheels free to turn, the car can dart off to one side or another. The usefullness of being able to lock the wheels is why many disconnect the ABS for track use. A few years ago, the president of my racing club was killed at Pocono essentially because the ABS prevented him from locking the brakes. He lost it in the tunnel turn at 160 and tried to lock it up so that the car would continue down the track and stay off the outer wall and the inner grass. However, his ABS prevented lockup, and the car shot down the baking and into a Jersey barrier in front of a flag station. It would have made no difference which part of the car hit first.

 

I agree, however, that needing to go both feet in on the public roads is clearly an indication of excessive enthusiasm.

 

 

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg

AIM: AZP Installs | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Dealer

"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

The reason to do both feet in and not attempt to save it is several fold.

First as Jake said if you go off sideways, you can grip roll your car when you hit the soft off pavement area. Second, you want the car to go off with 2 in then you will likely go in a straight and predictable path, and won't be likely to dart back on track and get slammed by someone else.

As for ABS on track, there are lots of schools of thought. Most currently, will not disable abs because it is more of a benefit than a hindrance except in snowy conditions.

And anyone who is on a public road and drives where they need to put 2 in are driving way over what they should be on the street.

Mike

The reason to do both feet in and not attempt to save it is several fold.

 

 

First as Jake said if you go off sideways, you can grip roll your car when you hit the soft off pavement area. Second, you want the car to go off with 2 in then you will likely go in a straight and predictable path, and won't be likely to dart back on track and get slammed by someone else.

 

As for ABS on track, there are lots of schools of thought. Most currently, will not disable abs because it is more of a benefit than a hindrance except in snowy conditions.

 

And anyone who is on a public road and drives where they need to put 2 in are driving way over what they should be on the street.

Mike

No biggie, but here is my last response on this issue:

1. Locking the brakes has nothing to do with whether you go off nose first or sideways. Watch a NASCAR race and you'll see - cars sliding sideways, backwards, or whatever with all four wheels locked up. As I said, the point of locking it up is to avoid radical and unpredictable changes in direction.
   
2. Retaining ABS on the track is only usefull to lazy drivers as a substitute for threshold braking.
   
3. Concerning what you just said about driving on public roads...there's an echo in here:lol:
   

Im dumped. Im sitting on bump stops in the rear. I was just hoping that the whiteline kit would help me lose some of that camber and get closer to 0 degrees.

Depends how low you are. Lower you go, the more camber gained. The bushings only give 1* camber adjustment.