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GrimmSpeed 08+ WRX/LGT Top Mount Intercooler - Any Interest?


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Well, immediately following the successful release of our 02-07/08+ STI TMIC (top mount intercooler), we heard an overwhelming demand for a GrimmSpeed 08+ WRX/LGT style TMIC. Instead of simply slapping something together (not our style) and making it available to you guys, we thought it would be best to slow things down just a bit and get some real input from you, the end users. We have an intimate understanding of what makes a great intercooler, but there are many decisions to be made and we’d really love to incorporate your input/knowledge as we move forward. Maybe we can all learn a thing or two! Take a minute to watch our product release video for the 02-07 TMIC. You can expect the same performance, quality and attention to detail with the project!

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtGfs6k9BzM]GrimmSpeed Top Mount Intercooler Product Release - YouTube[/ame]

 

The first thing that we need to do is establish a set of primary design requirements. Here’s what we came up with. Of course, we have many other requirements as part of every product that we develop, but here are the heavy hitters on this particular project.

  1. The GrimmSpeed TMIC must fit 08+ WRX fitments without substantial/permanent modification.
  2. The GrimmSpeed TMIC must accomodate the use of upgraded ‘STI style’ turbos.
  3. The GrimmSpeed TMIC must be properly sized to support 550+whp.
  4. The GrimmSpeed TMIC must be innovative, providing features and capability that aren't already available.
  5. The GrimmSpeed TMIC must be an affordable solution.

Other requirements that are typical of any GrimmSpeed product involve material selection and sourcing (locally, when possible), quality, visual appeal, innovation, etc.

 

Here’s where you guys come in. We have a great deal of experience working with many different TMICs but we know that you do too. What are some design features that you’d like to see incorporated? IAT bungs? Water meth bungs? Splitter? What are some concerns you have with your current TMIC? Installation issues? Fitment issues? I’ve already got a long wish list, but I’d like to hear your thoughts before posting!

 

What we’ve done so far is create a 3D working envelope in CAD using out FARO Arm, as well as 3D scans of a handful of OEM and aftermarket options to use for size/placement comparison. We already have a couple basic designs pretty well sorted out, but there is still a lot of room for change and revision. As we firm things up, I’ll share my calculations and design methodology, but I think it’ll be best to start with the basics and expand from there. After crunching the numbers, I have some concerns regarding the efficiency and cooling/flow capacity of every single 08+ WRX TMIC that I’ve seen and I’d like to get to the bottom of those before moving forward. Perhaps some of you experts will have some insight here.

 

The intent of this thread is to gauge interest in the product, but more importantly, to better understand what your needs are. We know that there are already some great options out there, but we also think that they all fall quite short in one way or another. Now’s your chance to influence the design and development of what will become the new standard in 08+ WRX top mounts intercoolers! In the next post that I make, I’ll compile the suggestions that we’ve had so far as well as share some of the ‘hall of shame’ photos that I’ve collected and received over the last year or so. With that framework in place, we’ll nail this design and get parts in your hands! Being that we're in a technical subforum, let's keep this clean, civil, informational and educational. Sales or customer service questions/issues can be directed to sales@grimmspeed.com. We'll talk a bit about cost, but only as a design requirement/limitation, not in a sales/marketing context.

 

Below are a just a few teaser photos that I've snapped while exploring a few ideas/options with this project. I'll post many more along the way!

 

Matt Beenen

Engineering

 

http://www.grimmspeed.com/images/product_images/tmic_subaru_08_teaser1.jpg

 

http://www.grimmspeed.com/images/product_images/tmic_subaru_08_teaser2.jpg

 

http://www.grimmspeed.com/images/product_images/tmic_subaru_08_teaser3.jpg

 

http://www.grimmspeed.com/images/product_images/tmic_subaru_08_teaser4.jpg

Edited by GrimmSpeed
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Already made my comment in the NASIOC thread, but i'll copy pasta quick..

 

Definitely needs to clear aftermarket strut tower braces.

 

Make sure the BPV flange doesn't interfere with the hood lining or hood in general.

 

Make sure it fits with turbos that are direct bolt on but have a slightly bigger compressor housing like my Kinugawa does. For example, I couldn't fit an AVO inlet on my Kinugawa because the inlet was actually sitting higher than my stock VF40's inlet. I'd be glad to test for this reason

 

That's what I can think of for now! Best of luck guys. Will buy, will buy.

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BPV fitment always seems to be a bit of an issue when aftermarket TMICs are properly fitted "high enough" in the bay so as not to have clutch master cylinder inference issues.

 

Metal endtanks that hang over the turbo are especially prone to heat soak issues, any new ideas to address / prevent this as much as reasonably possible?

 

If you make the unit for both the Impreza and the Legacy platform, you might need to think about different splitters for one / both platforms since they are different, AFAIK.

 

Good luck, and I hope you guys are able to put together another awesome product.

"Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>>

 

Not currently in stock :(

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Already made my comment in the NASIOC thread, but i'll copy pasta quick..

 

Definitely needs to clear aftermarket strut tower braces.

 

Make sure the BPV flange doesn't interfere with the hood lining or hood in general.

 

Make sure it fits with turbos that are direct bolt on but have a slightly bigger compressor housing like my Kinugawa does. For example, I couldn't fit an AVO inlet on my Kinugawa because the inlet was actually sitting higher than my stock VF40's inlet. I'd be glad to test for this reason

 

That's what I can think of for now! Best of luck guys. Will buy, will buy.

How about I copy/paste my response to you for the good folks here? :lol:

 

Thanks for the great feedback/input! We will definitely do our best on the strut tower bars, BPV fitments and aftermarket turbos. What strut tower bars are most important to you guys? We'll track a few down and keep them on hand for testing!

BPV fitment always seems to be a bit of an issue when aftermarket TMICs are properly fitted "high enough" in the bay so as not to have clutch master cylinder inference issues.

 

Metal endtanks that hang over the turbo are especially prone to heat soak issues, any new ideas to address / prevent this as much as reasonably possible?

 

If you make the unit for both the Impreza and the Legacy platform, you might need to think about different splitters for one / both platforms since they are different, AFAIK.

 

Good luck, and I hope you guys are able to put together another awesome product.

Good stuff. We will definitely address heat soak as well as we can. At a certain point, though, there's only so much you can do. When your car isn't moving, your TMIC becomes nothing more than a chunk of aluminum in your engine bay!

 

Matt Beenen

Engineering

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Slightly OT, but how about an LGT IC splitter?

 

Edit: While I'm sure you guys would have an awesome IC solution, to those of us who already have an aftermarket IC, an affordable splitter upgrade would be a great benefit to the community

Edited by Adam393
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How about I copy/paste my response to you for the good folks here? :lol:

 

Thanks for the great feedback/input! We will definitely do our best on the strut tower bars, BPV fitments and aftermarket turbos. What strut tower bars are most important to you guys? We'll track a few down and keep them on hand for testing!

 

Matt Beenen

Engineering

 

Strong copy and pasta in this thread :lol:

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I am very excited to see this thread. I was one of the many who sent an email to GS requesting an 08+ LGT intercooler.

I have been waiting for the ProcessWest IC to become available as a group buy in another thread; however, the concern for many is if the fitment issues it had were addressed. I have doubts and I hate when I have doubts about an aftermarket product.

If any company can produce a product with A+ quality, affordability, and a range of versatile fitment it's GrimmSpeed. I swear this is their motto.

"I will be first to buy the finished product."

 

Adam

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Great to see your outstanding company bringing more products out for our platform, (thankfully we share many things with the 08+WRX). I still want my GS Downpipe in our fitment!!!

 

I have the Process West TMIC currently and would consider making the switch if the GS piece:

 

- Is designed either to mate perfectly with OEM splitter, or has a custom splitter that mates with the new core.

- Allows enough room for BPV fitment. This is a tough fit with my current PW TMIC, and the one I have is actually slightly shorter than OEM BPV.

- Clutch Master Cyllinder clearance.

- STi style turbo fitment option is nice (and from seeing your recent TMIC release, silicone couplers tend to be in the plan so this may be an option).

- IAT sensor bungs would be icing on the cake.

 

I'm much less concerned about strut tower bar accommodation. They are pointless on our cars anyways, due to our strut towers being integrated with the firewall. Silly bling with no performance gains. They vary so much from vendor to vendor this seems like a request that isn't necessary.

 

I'm also not concerned about metal end tanks over the turbo. Now that I've had my PW for close to a year utilizing my Grimmspeed turbo heat shield, lined with DEI Reflect-a-Gold and a PTP turbo blanket I feel heatsoak issues are overstated (clearly it will if sitting in traffic). I don't want to sacrifice core size just to keep it from being over the turbo which is really the only void that there's more space to add to the size of it.

Edited by .:Catalyst:.
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A few more suggestions for changes where I feel others have not met par.

 

-Where the BPV bolts on, the holes for the bolts should not extend into the pressure chamber of the IC. The bolts then become a leak path and require gobs of sillycone to seal them properly.

-Offer a hose kit to fit your IC to the stock TB. Trying to turn the Subaru one to the correct 1/4 degree to make it fit properly makes it impossible to fit properly.

-Make it look pretty. Even some of the higher end ones look like a 5 year old Chinese boy welded it in their dad's shop.

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All about a new intercooler that will fit my "05 Legacy GT! If it puts down better numbers than my Perrin, has the ability to fit various BPV's without clearance issues, and and uses a specific integrated splitter, I'll be the first to make the switch!!
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I have a Process West and would be interested in switching. My complain with the ProcessWest is it's small size (compared to spearco), BPV Always rubbing on splitter and hood lining (BPV/BOV Options). Would not mind a 550hp capable TMIC and cheaper cost, plus made right here in the great old US of A.... Edited by gordata
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Slightly OT, but how about an LGT IC splitter?

 

Edit: While I'm sure you guys would have an awesome IC solution, to those of us who already have an aftermarket IC, an affordable splitter upgrade would be a great benefit to the community

If a splitter will aid in the effectiveness of whatever we design, then a splitter there shall be! As for fitting other aftermarket TMICs, I can't comment yet. There are a few unique designs and it would be quite difficult to accommodate them all. We will see though!

Strong copy and pasta in this thread :lol:

:cool:

I am very excited to see this thread. I was one of the many who sent an email to GS requesting an 08+ LGT intercooler.

I have been waiting for the ProcessWest IC to become available as a group buy in another thread; however, the concern for many is if the fitment issues it had were addressed. I have doubts and I hate when I have doubts about an aftermarket product.

If any company can produce a product with A+ quality, affordability, and a range of versatile fitment it's GrimmSpeed. I swear this is their motto.

"I will be first to buy the finished product."

 

Adam

Thanks for the support! We always do our best to provide unmatched quality and fitment in an affordable package. Anybody that's seen our 02-07 TMIC can attest to the quality and craftsmanship that go into them.

Great to see your outstanding company bringing more products out for our platform, (thankfully we share many things with the 08+WRX). I still want my GS Downpipe in our fitment!!!

 

I have the Process West TMIC currently and would consider making the switch if the GS piece:

 

- Is designed either to mate perfectly with OEM splitter, or has a custom splitter that mates with the new core.

- Allows enough room for BPV fitment. This is a tough fit with my current PW TMIC, and the one I have is actually slightly shorter than OEM BPV.

- Clutch Master Cyllinder clearance.

- STi style turbo fitment option is nice (and from seeing your recent TMIC release, silicone couplers tend to be in the plan so this may be an option).

- IAT sensor bungs would be icing on the cake.

 

I'm much less concerned about strut tower bar accommodation. They are pointless on our cars anyways, due to our strut towers being integrated with the firewall. Silly bling with no performance gains. They vary so much from vendor to vendor this seems like a request that isn't necessary.

 

I'm also not concerned about metal end tanks over the turbo. Now that I've had my PW for close to a year utilizing my Grimmspeed turbo heat shield, lined with DEI Reflect-a-Gold and a PTP turbo blanket I feel heatsoak issues are overstated (clearly it will if sitting in traffic). I don't want to sacrifice core size just to keep it from being over the turbo which is really the only void that there's more space to add to the size of it.

THANK YOU very, very much for the valuable input. This is the reason I came to you guys before firming anything up! You and I think alike. I agree with you on the heat soak issues. I can't comment on the strut tower bar, as I haven't done any testing myself. That said, I'm going to do my best to leave some room for a few of the more popular STB options. Please follow along in this thread and continue giving your thoughts and feedback!

A few more suggestions for changes where I feel others have not met par.

 

-Where the BPV bolts on, the holes for the bolts should not extend into the pressure chamber of the IC. The bolts then become a leak path and require gobs of sillycone to seal them properly.

-Offer a hose kit to fit your IC to the stock TB. Trying to turn the Subaru one to the correct 1/4 degree to make it fit properly makes it impossible to fit properly.

-Make it look pretty. Even some of the higher end ones look like a 5 year old Chinese boy welded it in their dad's shop.

Awesome! I 100% agree on the BPV bolts. Do people really do that and rely on the threads to seal? Talk about a terrible design! Hose kits are a must!

 

As for making it look pretty, I've found that prettiness tends to follow careful design and top-notch craftsmanship around. You WILL NOT be disappointed. Hell, Justin Grimm himself has one of our 02-07 TMICs displayed on a shelf in his living room! As for the 5 year old boy, let's give him a little bit more credit than that. I'd say 12, at least. :lol:

All about a new intercooler that will fit my "05 Legacy GT! If it puts down better numbers than my Perrin, has the ability to fit various BPV's without clearance issues, and and uses a specific integrated splitter, I'll be the first to make the switch!!

Perfect!

Subscribed

:cool:

I have a Process West and would be interested in switching. My complain with the ProcessWest is it's small size (compared to spearco), BPV Always rubbing on splitter and hood lining (BPV/BOV Options). Would not mind a 550hp capable TMIC and cheaper cost, plus made right here in the great old US of A....

Great feedback! I'm hearing a common theme regarding the concern for BPV/BOV fitment on the PW units. Is that a big problem for them? I've only fitting one with a stock BPV.

 

Stay tuned for updates! I'm hoping to post some sizing calculations and information today or tomorrow to see how you guys feel about it! You engineering/thermodynamics freaks, please pay extra attention; I'd love to have someone else checking our math/theory. That said, did you guys see Justin North's STI swapped RS on our facebook page yesterday!? He's making 600whp on our 02-07 TMIC, so we must be doing something right!

 

Matt Beenen

Engineering

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Aren't there already 4 or 5 TMIC options for the 4th gen LGT? How about something for the 5th gen guys? Our options are RacerX, pay $$$ to import from Japan or pay $$$$$ to fabricate your own. Needless to say RacerX is making a killing (and we appreciate his support for our platform) but some competition/options would be nice.
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My input, from a guy who's running stage 3 (or something) - bnr16g + injectors + pump, gutted OEM pipes (for smog), bulletproof TMIC:

I would switch for a solution that is

1) better than OEM

2) solid and fits 100% dead on, no massaging required

3) affordable

 

FOR ME, $700+ is NOT a workable price because I have a working solution and wouldn't expect more than 5-10 hp max from switching. I've passed on used Perrins at $400-450 because of the fitment issues.

 

For me, $399 is about the highest I'd go. At this point, the car isn't my "hobby" (I have the house for that - currently doing a major remodel :eek:), so I just need it to be reliable, and a "set it and forget it" type of thing. I realize I'm in the minority.

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  • I Donated Too
I'd like to see testing with all stock size turbos in this fitment (VF40/VF46/VF52) as well as the largest OEM fitment (flanged) turbos like the BNR 20G or Kinugawa 20G, then go nuts with an STI fitment FP Red or stock location 35R. It seems like aftermarket options either cater to the VF40-18G range, or the big aftermarket range (20g+), with only the PW showing gains on all. The spearco was even shown to hurt performance on small turbos like the VF40/46.
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I'd like to see a TMIC to TB hose that is easy to install and stays put while you muscle the IC over the turbo.

 

 

Why can't that TB hose be a 1/4 to 3/8 longer on each end and a little more flexable.

 

Why can't the bead in the TMIC be designed to hold the hose on better.

 

I assume your product will come with T bolt style clamps ?

305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD).  CHECK your oil, these cars use it.

 

Engine Build - Click Here

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My input, from a guy who's running stage 3 (or something) - bnr16g + injectors + pump, gutted OEM pipes (for smog), bulletproof TMIC:

I would switch for a solution that is

1) better than OEM

2) solid and fits 100% dead on, no massaging required

3) affordable

 

FOR ME, $700+ is NOT a workable price because I have a working solution and wouldn't expect more than 5-10 hp max from switching. I've passed on used Perrins at $400-450 because of the fitment issues.

 

For me, $399 is about the highest I'd go. At this point, the car isn't my "hobby" (I have the house for that - currently doing a major remodel :eek:), so I just need it to be reliable, and a "set it and forget it" type of thing. I realize I'm in the minority.

Show me a quality product for this application (TMIC) that isn't a Chinese knockoff in that price range...

 

What you are asking for isn't feasible price wise. With the R&D and fabrication costs for a performance TMIC that is applied to a niche aftermarket demographic like the LGT owned by enthusiasts is not going to produce a high volume of sales. To even justify this I'm sure GS has to account for two platforms to use the same product (08+WRX is a much larger market). Due to this, pricing is going to be more than $400 to justify producing it I'm certain.

 

Also, it's rare that a truly custom aftermarket part does not require some sort of "massaging" as you stated. You want better than OEM, which will require a different core design. Fitting something bigger to the same engine takes modification (notice mod is short for this?).

 

If the car isn't your "hobby" I have no idea why you have a Stage 3 modded LGT, and even if what has been done already is a sunk cost at this point; moving forward, why bother changing your working solution if you can't afford a true upgrade like what GS will bring to the table?

 

I fail to see the relevance of what you posted. Stick with your bullet proofed OEM TMIC that seems to suit you well. I think you missed something that's been posted here often... "stay stock, stay happy". Later "stage" modifications require the right budget and mindset, neither of which you seem to possess based on your post.

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I'd like to see a TMIC to TB hose that is easy to install and stays put while you muscle the IC over the turbo.

 

 

Why can't that TB hose be a 1/4 to 3/8 longer on each end and a little more flexable.

 

Why can't the bead in the TMIC be designed to hold the hose on better.

 

I assume your product will come with T bolt style clamps ?

The Process West nailed this aspect (TMIC to TB hose). They missed the boat on the quality of the hardware (clamps) though. I agree, for the price these high end TMICs are getting, we shouldn't have to go out and buy new T-bolt clamps or constant tension clamps right out of the gate to ensure a leak free installation.
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Aren't there already 4 or 5 TMIC options for the 4th gen LGT? How about something for the 5th gen guys? Our options are RacerX, pay $$$ to import from Japan or pay $$$$$ to fabricate your own. Needless to say RacerX is making a killing (and we appreciate his support for our platform) but some competition/options would be nice.

 

I don't think that there is enough potential sales to justify that. Sell a couple dozen(maybe!) 5th gens or target 4th gens and all 08+ wrx.

"Striving to better, oft we mar what's well." - Bill Shakespeare - car modder
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