A different Horse Power Approach for N/A rides !

So this is not a new concept... but I would like to create a brainstorm session with many of us N/A owners on how to Make the Most of our horse Power:lol:

 

So my buddy and I were chatting it up the other day about how his Scion TC when it was bone stock (of course it is modded now) would have totally slain my N/A legacy stock and how there is not a huge gap in horse power between the two cars stock (170ish vs 180ish) but that the weight difference was the biggest contributing factor. for example the more weight you can cut will contribute to an efficiency boost or better usage of the horse power you already posses.

 

So in my original attempts to make my non-turbo fast with performance parts I realized(through research on this site and others) that the options are very limited. Now having purchased an AVO panel filter, new sway bar,end links,reinforcement brackets, A throttle controller. and now a Cobb lightweight Crank pulley, I have begun to ponder long and hard on how I can cut more weight while still being practical (example I do not want to strip the interior of my car)

 

So what are some parts or even pieces we N/A owners can swap out for new or even ditch all together to lighten up our rides for more efficient use of our limited horsepower ?

throw out all the seats and sound dampening. throw out the sunroof if you have it.

 

get 16" enkei RPF1s, lightweight racing coilovers, polycarbonate windows

 

throw out all the seats and sound dampening. throw out the sunroof if you have it.

 

get 16" enkei RPF1s, lightweight racing coilovers, polycarbonate windows

 

 

The lighter rims suggestion is not a bad one and the coil overs are good too

 

But as mentioned ripping out the interior is not practical for an everyday driver:lol:

 

Now I have heard that for every pound dropped you can factor that that has freed up 2-3 horse power which now can be used... So if this stands true... theoretically speaking if we could drop a few hundred pounds or even just 100 pounds we should not have a problem keeping up with other vehicles that have more horses at the wheel right ? or is this just circular reasoning that will not end at a real solution ?

 

I mean I do not know necessarily that large amounts of HP are being used up by added weight within the stock design or what the actual HP to wheel vs actual HP ratio is... but if we could drop 100 pounds than that could potentially free up 50hp

Try more like 10 lbs/hp

 

 

So it is a 10 to 1 ratio?

 

That still is not horrible...

 

 

100 lbs =10 Hp free for the wheels to use

 

The stock mufflers alone together weigh 50lbs(only an estimate) so if you replace those with an option that is 15-20 lbs lighter you could see 1-2 Hp free up...

 

Any idea on weight difference between stock struts and springs vs coilovers ?

Any Idea on what the stock n/a legacy is putting out at the wheels ? I know the specs say around 170 ish but how much of that 170 is actually making it to the wheels across all gears ?

Use search function for dyno results and you will find a few.

Not many na users dyno their cars, for, to what end?

IIRC about 112-120.

 

O.

ok so 120... now I understand you can only free up so much horse power by loosing weight but 50 horses is a lot to work with...

 

So far these mods will cut weight

 

Exhaust (lightweight axel back or catback option or even a single catback pipe)

Rims Depends on choice

coilovers Around 20-30lbs

light weight battery 10-20lbs

Lightened crank pulley Aroung 5lbs

aftermarket front seats Not sure yet!

Aftermarket brakes (harder to find for our rides i am told) 5-10lbs per calliper a possible total of 40lbs

swapping usdm bumper beam for JDM bumper beam will cut quite a bit of weight and not sacrifice safetey 10-15lbs

 

these numbers are from the thread below... with these changes you could shave up to 110 pounds off your ride this is not factoring in the loss of weight from light weight rims, exhaust, and seats. (that could very well be another 75 to 100 pounds for all I know)

 

All those mods will still be less than slapping a low psi turbo on the car and that would free up over 10hp

 

so rather than putting 120 to the wheels you now are putting more like 130 plus

 

I figure this is something for us N/A guys to ponder upon before we throw 3500 bucks into a turbo. Besides these things done first followed by the installing of say the AVO low psi offering might yield higher gains when put to the test...

 

Found some interesting stuff from the lgt guys on here

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/removing-weight-better-handling-and-performance-99489.html

I hope you realize that weight reduction is not cheap:

 

Exhaust - for a pair of quality mufflers like Magnaflow, around $450

Wheels - a cheap set of lightweight wheels, like the Kosei K1 TS (14.6lbs) in 17x7, $800

Coilovers - cheap coilovers like BC Racing or Tein Basic, around $900

light weight battery - Around $100

Lightened crank pulley - Around $120

aftermarket front seats - a cheap seat from Corbeau starts at $400 each

Aftermarket brakes - Wilwood calipers are 5 lbs each (fronts only). They're about $1,300 with rotors

 

That's a total of about $4,000. That's a little more than the AVO turbo kit and the gain isn't as great.

 

Dont mean to bust your balls, but dont get your head wrapped around weight reduction so much. Again, it's not cheap and the gains arent huge.

Use search function for dyno results and you will find a few.

Not many na users dyno their cars, for, to what end?

IIRC about 112-120.

 

O.

 

 

^ that's about right, i would have said 110ish at the wheels based off of dynolicious runs i've made but i have an automatic transmission so my car is pretty slow.

 

hmm stock struts.......i knew that value at one point, but i can't remember now i do know the more advanced coilovers to offer some weight savings. i have tein basics and can only say they are maybe 10-15lbs lighter in total (all 4 corners combined)

 

my weight reduction mod is using a small framed, lightweight driver = myself

you cant look at it as just weight. you have to look at it from the bigger picture of HP/ton. For example, the stock LGT is 250chp and around 3300lbs making it about 150 hp per ton. the 2.5i is 100 hp per ton. (numbers are ballpark, not exact) in order to make the accelerative capability of the 2.5i equal to the LGT, you would have to loose 1000lbs. you would have to loose 500lbs to have the equivalent of 200chp in the 2.5i

 

the 110lbs stated above would do nearly nothing. it just doesn't make sense and is a waste of money. again, the sale of the 2.5i + the amount of money you would spend on it for these mods would buy a used LGT.

well the goal here is not to make the 2.5i equivalent to the lgt... its is only to free up the power at the wheel and make it more competitive when put up against other n/a in its class...

 

Also you must take into consideration that most of these mods will already be done by many 2.5i owners in pursuit of personalizing/ improving the ride.

 

I would have to say all that has been suggested save the aftermarket seats and battery... will already or eventually be done so in reality if each thing is added one at a time like many of us do... relatively speaking it will be cheaper than buying a turbo 3500 dollar turbo all at once.

 

One must also consider many of these mods can be installed DIY by someone with a limited amount of vehicle knowledge meaning no install costs whereas many of us would need a professional install on a turbo

 

this is simply to help newer owners save time rather than waste time looking for bolt on parts they can start increasing performance immediately one at a time.

 

It is all relative. I chose not to buy a gt simply because N/A is more reliable, and for many of us 2.5 owners why not know what mods to do first especially if they are going to drop our weight and while you say 110 pounds will not do anything.... All I have to say is every little bit helps right?

 

Its like this... Guys put lightweight crank pulleys in their legacy and claim that they do not feel a power increase yet they say the throttle seems more responsive... I mean come on... that very perception or notice in difference is the increase in power manifesting itself to the driver... and that is just a 5lbs decrease in the rotational mass of your vehicle. So why wouldn't a 110 pound decrease be worth it ?

well the goal here is not to make the 2.5i equivalent to the lgt... its is only to free up the power at the wheel and make it more competitive when put up against other n/a in its class...

 

If you mean competitive in a race or something, then :lol: you bought the wrong car.

 

Also you must take into consideration that most of these mods will already be done by many 2.5i owners in pursuit of personalizing/ improving the ride.

nothing wrong with this. my suggestions only address the "bang for buck" point in that it would be alot of money for very little gain to go the weight reduction route.

 

I would have to say all that has been suggested save the aftermarket seats and battery... will already or eventually be done so in reality if each thing is added one at a time like many of us do... relatively speaking it will be cheaper than buying a turbo 3500 dollar turbo all at once.

 

One must also consider many of these mods can be installed DIY by someone with a limited amount of vehicle knowledge meaning no install costs whereas many of us would need a professional install on a turbo

 

this is simply to help newer owners save time rather than waste time looking for bolt on parts they can start increasing performance immediately one at a time.

Again, bang for buck. 4K for 110lbs of weight loss as stated above. you are better off doing a N/A build.

 

It is all relative. I chose not to buy a gt simply because N/A is more reliable, and for many of us 2.5 owners why not know what mods to do first especially if they are going to drop our weight and while you say 110 pounds will not do anything.... All I have to say is every little bit helps right?

:lol: to say that N/a is more reliable than turbo is silly. there are plenty of turbo cars over 100K miles with no issues. and i promise you a modded n/a car will be less reliable than a stock turbo car. and it is desperation to struggle to take 110lbs out of a car for so much money. no one would do it on a DD car.

 

 

 

Its like this... Guys put lightweight crank pulleys in their legacy and claim that they do not feel a power increase yet they say the throttle seems more responsive... I mean come on... that very perception or notice in difference is the increase in power manifesting itself to the driver... and that is just a 5lbs decrease in the rotational mass of your vehicle. So why wouldn't a 110 pound decrease be worth it ?

again, its not worth it for $4k. like i said above, sell the 2.5i, take the 4k you would spend to do this ridiculous weight reduction on a daily driving car and use that to buy a used LGT. we gone over this countless times on the board. of course, that's certainly not gonna stop people from trying, as it is their right. but my opinion is born from my on experiences in trying to power mod a low power n/a 4cyl car (2000 mistu eclipse rs). so i just dont want to see people disappointed when they spend thousands and get next to nothing in return.

It's threads like these that make me long for an LGT

 

I think of my 2.5i as a cap, if you will. My modifications are strictly limited to tweaking/upgrading the suspension (and very few engine mods) you know, small fry, which I have come to terms with long ago. No need to worry about the big fish like tuning, upgrading to a bigger snail, intakes and intercoolers etc. That'll all come after I graduate and hunt down a 5EAT LGT wagon.

Why don't you just fill your car with helium?

haha that made me thought of the movie 'up'

 

but let's try to have a constructive discussion for the OP

well I guess it was just circular thinking then!

 

I honestly don't know what I was thinking posting in the N/A section about possible efforts to harness the 2.5i's fullest potential... (if you cannot tell that was sarcasm)

instead of getting another exhaust/catback

just ditch the whole thing!

Just to get the terminology correct...

 

You can only free up horsepower by lightening parts on the engine, such as the crank pulley.

 

By significantly making the chassis weigh less, it will only FEEL like you've added 5-10hp, it won't ADD any power. Saying lighter calipers or lighter seats add power is not correct.

Get the 3.0r and smoke your friend.

well I guess it was just circular thinking then!

 

I honestly don't know what I was thinking posting in the N/A section about possible efforts to harness the 2.5i's fullest potential... (if you cannot tell that was sarcasm)

 

 

the fullest potential of the 2.5i is to be a fantastic daily driving car that gets good gas mileage, has a comfortable ride and is good in bad weather scenarios. i wouldn't expect anything more from it. you should just appreciate the car for what it is.

You cant thrown out enough weight to beat stock TC let alone a modded one. The EJ253 is people mover not a performance people mover

The best and fastest way to make your 2.5i's lighter? Sell it and buy a lighter car.

Just to get the terminology correct...

 

You can only free up horsepower by lightening parts on the engine, such as the crank pulley.

 

By significantly making the chassis weigh less, it will only FEEL like you've added 5-10hp, it won't ADD any power. Saying lighter calipers or lighter seats add power is not correct.

 

Why would it not free up power... The power used moving its heavy a$$ around would become free to be used elsewhere within the vehicle. (better handling, quicker in turns and accelerating because of the weight reduction)

 

As mentioned I understand you can only lighten a vehicle so much, but every little bit helps.

 

As mentioned this is about making the car perform better and making it a little more fun that is all.

 

I know the 2.5i will never be a beast and will never beat certain other vehicles and while many of us believe a couple hundred pounds lost on mods that will already be done wont make a big difference.... the reality is it will make some difference in the drivers enjoyment

 

For example not only will my car ditch 20-30 pounds when I install coil overs... I will also be able to Adjust height and have better suspension performance...

 

So really there are multiple benefits to dropping weight by replacing the parts

 

And just to clarify these ideas are not to help a 2.5i beat anything simply to make it more fun to drive.

 

By the way Brand new universal racing seats by Sparco can be had for 230 per seat so the estimate of 400 per seat is a bit high

 

also a lot of these mods can be found on the used market therefore making it a lot less than the speculated 4k it would take. I would go as far as saying if all of this was had on the used market (which would take much patience) you could do it all for a little over 2k