Subaru no longer going to be Boxer and AWD only???!!!

Discuss away!

 

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/F037D8A4E519D278CA257392007F4058

 

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The green movement places Subaru Australia’s core brand message under threat

 

By JAMES STANFORD and TERRY MARTIN 16 November 2007

 

SUBARU Australia’s two central brand pillars – the boxer engine and all-wheel drive – are under threat.

 

The aspiring prestige marque has promoted the core technologies as fundamental elements for all models sold in Australia, refusing to take smaller inline engines and front-drive models available overseas.

 

This policy has seen the image of Subaru rescued from a rudimentary budget outfit in the 1980s to a unique Japanese premium brand. Australian Subaru dealership signs even incorporate ‘all-wheel drive’ under the logo to make the point.

 

Now, Subaru Australia managing director Nick Senior has revealed to GoAuto that ever-tightening emission standards and a desire to cut fuel consumption could force it to reconsider its position on AWD and boxer engines.

 

“Those core technologies are a key part of the brand,” Mr Senior told GoAuto. “That is not likely to change in the foreseeable future.

 

“Where there will need to be discussion and debate internally is if we develop environmentally friendly technology like an electric car or hybrid car or whatever, that may not be true to our core technology.

 

“We would have to sit down one day and discuss whether that fits into that strategy. If not, do we look at changing that?”

 

Mr Senior was quick to emphasise that Subaru Australia was committed to AWD and boxer engines for now.

 

“As we sit here today, there is nothing in our product portfolio or pipeline that is not all-wheel drive or has a non-boxer engine – (but) that may not be the case forever and a day,” he said.

 

A switch to non-boxer and 2WD would represent a seismic shift in the importer’s position.

 

Subaru Australia chairman Trevor Amery told GoAuto back in 2002, when he was managing director, that the company was fully committed to the AWD/boxer engine combination.

 

“Whilst I’m in charge of the company, we will not have front-wheel drive cars and we won’t have non-boxer engines either,” he said.

 

When asked whether the time would come when Subaru would have to move away from that format, Mr Amery said he was confident the formula would stay in place until at least 2010.

 

“One of the reasons we chose to become an all-wheel drive company only was so that we wouldn’t confuse people with our message – and these are some of the things that are going to stand us in good stead for some time,” he said.

 

“The fact is, for a long, long time – as far as I can see – we will be the only all all-wheel drive car company and we’re so proud of our technology and our system and the benefits to the customer with our all-wheel drive, that we put it in all our cars, not just one.”

 

Mr Senior pointed out that existing Subaru models would continue to run AWD and boxer engines, while a new smaller and more economical vehicle could be the one without one or both of the features.

 

Achieving certain fuel efficiency goals with both AWD and boxer engines could be problematic for Subaru.

 

The issue regarding AWD is simply to do with the weight of the extra driveline components, which can have a big impact on fuel consumption. The issue with flat boxer engines is that Subaru does not produce any smaller than 1.5 litres.

 

In Japan, small and economical Subaru cars use a regular inline 660cc four-cylinder engine, which could be used as part of a future hybrid model instead of a boxer unit.

 

Indeed, one non-boxer powerplant the manufacturer is working on has no cylinders at all.

 

Subaru presented the G4e concept at last month’s Tokyo motor show, an all-electric vehicle that pointed to the future direction of the car-maker.

 

The company told journalists that it aimed to produce an all-electric vehicle for the Japanese market by 2010 and wanted to lead the industry with electric technology.

 

It is unlikely that an electric vehicle would make it to Australia in the short-term, but the move reveals Subaru is prepared to push forward with non-boxer powerplants.

 

When it came to developing a diesel engine that will be available in Europe from early next year, the company went to great lengths to stick with a boxer.

 

It also incorporated its AWD and a boxer engine with its experimental work on hybrids, as shown with the 2005 B5-TPH (turbo parallel hybrid) concept car.

 

However, Subaru has now frozen its independent petrol-electric hybrid program and has agreed to utilise Toyota’s system in developing its own hybrid cars. (Toyota bought an 8.7 per cent stake in Subaru in 2005.)

 

The company’s first hybrid is not expected to reach production until well after the first diesel engine arrives – now likely to be 2009 in Australia.

 

Mr Senior said Subaru Australia, which is the third-largest Subaru market in the world behind Japan and the US, was keen on getting the oil-burner next year in its all-new Forester, but advised against betting on it.

 

“That is a wish, in terms of odds it is probably less than 50:50,” he said.

 

Mr Senior said the company would definitely have an Outback with a diesel in 2009 and maybe a diesel-powered Liberty if it felt there was sufficient demand.

you are gonna get pwn3d by Jon [in-I-don't-care-where]

you are gonna get pwn3d by Jon [in-I-don't-care-where]

 

why?

just watch...

just watch...

 

tee hee.

Can't wait...

meh.

Again, I already commented on this on Autoblog... but I'll post it here, as well, just in case Subaru is reading...

 

This is scary. If you want something without AWD. BUY SOMETHING ELSE.

 

Subaru of America notes that it doesn't make enough revenue in this country to offer configurable options on their models, especially the Legacy.

 

They dropped the manual transmission from the Legacy Wagon, they dropped color choice options from the whole Legacy lineup, and then dropped the wagon all together, due to "lack of profitability."

 

If they can't afford to build Legacy wagons to sell in the US, how can they afford to offer cars both with and without AWD.

(BTW, the factory in Indiana is still building wagons, with manual transmissions, just fine, for sale in Canada, via a different management and sales organization for that country. Japan and the rest of the world, also. So it hardly seems like a manufacturing problem.)

 

non-boxer engines... how about just updating the boxers? direct injection would be just fine. other than that, the Subaru boxers are pretty powerful, and bulletproof, pound for pound. If I wanted an inline, or a V-engine I would have bought an A4 or a G35.

 

The Subaru R2 is a non-AWD, non boxer car, and an ultracompact. They haven't imported that. Maybe they will, but I don't know how it would differentiate itself from a Yaris, or even a Smart. Big whoop.

 

Subaru's DCCD technology, and variable torque distribution make their AWD systems some of the most advanced and adaptable on the market. What is wrong with that.

 

For people in the "sunbelt" who don't think they need AWD, as I said, buy something else. there are plenty of other cars on the market. AWD hardly hurts on dry pavement, WRC tarmac stages show that. Honestly, if you drive so well, and think that there is no possible way you could use more traction than 1 or 2 wheel drive (depending on if your car has LSD or not), then by all means, buy a 2-wheel drive car. The market is full of them.

 

I drive my 05 Legacy GT Turbo 5-speed sedan with AWD EVERY day, dry tarmac, rain, snow, ice, whatever. It is hard to beat. I have 300 peak engine hp available, and I don't mind spending a bit of it on drivetrain losses to be able to put the rest of it to the ground without clouds of tire smoke. I get ~20mpg in town, if I behave, and regularly cruise at 24.5-26.5mpg on long highway trips, depending on highway/engine speed.

 

It doesn't have problems with binding on turns, or some of the drawbacks of truck-like 4WD... so what is the downside to more traction?

 

And it isn't even a weight penalty, really, when my Legacy is about 3400lbs, and other RWD and FWD sedans are pushing 3700lbs, and most nearing or passing 2 tons, like the G8, the Chrysler sedans, and others.

 

Subaru needs to push forward with AWD, and boxer technology. It is already very good, and can be even better. If I wanted something else, I would have bought the myriad of something elses on the market.

 

To Subaru of America:

 

Hire some designers, or work with Subaru in japan to improve the future designs. Design some cars that people WANT, not just that they'll tolerate in order to have the good drivetrain.

 

Restyle the impreza to look better, it should never have gotten uglier, it should have gotten better looking for 08.

Give us a nice 3-door coupe bodystyle on the impreza chassis.

 

Support the Legacy, for pete's sake. Give us back some color combination options, and interior amenities that other cars in it's class have. Give us a fully kitted STI version of the Legacy, with the same drivetrain and features as the WRX STI.

 

Bring back a GT Coupe successor to the SVX. Not on a unique (expensive) chassis, but a new body, based on the shared Legacy chassis, with 2 doors and shorter rear overhang, a sculpted front end, and a sleek fastback hatch, with Legacy's wheelbase, and the Tribeca's wider track, and standard-size wheel hubs.

 

Be very careful with the Legacy/Outback, and following Tribeca re-design. DO NOT REPEAT HISTORY. Design something that is *attractive*, and underpinned by Subaru boxer power, and advanced AWD.

 

An attractive looking, well equipped Subaru vehicle will nearly sell itself, IF people know about it. So get your marketing in line. "Ricky" is not a commercial.

 

The Legacy (separate from the Outback) is the lowest selling Subaru nameplate, and has been for some time. Yet I have only every seen maybe 2 commercials that even show a Legacy, and none of them talked about the performance that the GT model is capable of.

 

Most people think I drive some sort of unforseen Audi or BMW. People are SHOCKED, in a very impressed way, to hear that it is a Subaru, especially when they are pinned back to the passenger seat in my car.

 

Don't repeat your past mistakes. If something isn't working, don't just scrap it. fix it. The bones of great products are there, the potential is there, it just needs to be supported and facilitated. Don't just abandon it, find out how to make it work, and take the obstacles out of the way. It isn't nearly as hard as re-inventing your brand needlessly, and losing the identity you already have, and simply need to broadcast.

/\ /\ /\ +1

Subaru has been selling other maker's vehicles in some markets, vehicles branded as a Subaru, but without AWD and without a boxer engine. Perhaps this possible step is the result of Toyota's taking over Subaru.

 

SOA: Hire this guy!!!

 

BOXER + AWD = FTW!

If someone at Subaru wants to hire me, I'll gladly reveal my real contact info to that person.

No offense, but there is NO way that's going to happen

Which: IWSS getting a job with Subaru? or Subaru ditching the Boxer and AWD?

:)IWSS for president!

No longer? In college I drove a 360 microvan. The Justy had three cylinders.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/92/2005_Subaru_R1.jpg/800px-2005_Subaru_R1.jpg

VVG you are my hero. I just want to SEE a 360 :-)

VVG you are my hero. I just want to SEE a 360 :-)

They were owned by the University, and as SOA is in NJ they may have made a deal. This was in the 70's.

 

It looked like this: a guy in VT owns it. Top speed seemed to be 40-45 mph. 25hp air cooled 2 cyl 2-stroke. Total length is under 10'.

 

They're an emissions and safety no-go: for sure you wouldn't want to get hit by anything bigger than a sea gull in one. Note the front "suicide" doors.

 

But I think a more modern version would sell: you see small work vans all over Europe, Caribbean Islands, etc.The Suzuki Every microvan is 11' long.

http://www.stovebolt.com/gallery/alternate/images/Lupton_Si_1969Subaru.jpg

 

http://www.globalautoindex.com/images/cars/4389/5210/norm_39_Every_Wagon_2005_Jp.jpg

It seems to me like Subaru is beginning to think like all other big car manufacturer out there.

All about business and profits.

That's one of the reason why you don't see any fun cars from Toyota and Honda anymore.

Yup, Nissan came out with the new GT-R and I give a lot of credit for CARLOS GHOSN for making a car like that in a time where people are only asking for cheaper gas milage cars.

 

I want Subaru to be able to support what they are proud of like the Boxer engine and 4WD.

 

I'm just blabbering away...LOL:lol:

Legacy - AWD - Boxer = crappy Camry.

 

Subaru went to AWD only Legacy back in the 80's because the FWD Legacy could not compete against the Camry and Accord.

It seems to me like Subaru is beginning to think like all other big car manufacturer out there.

All about business and profits.

That's one of the reason why you don't see any fun cars from Toyota and Honda anymore.

Yup, Nissan came out with the new GT-R and I give a lot of credit for CARLOS GHOSN for making a car like that in a time where people are only asking for cheaper gas milage cars.

 

I want Subaru to be able to support what they are proud of like the Boxer engine and 4WD.

 

I'm just blabbering away...LOL:lol:

 

Ghosn killed many fun cars Nissan had before his arrival (primarily outside the U.S.) Then he created the ugly hardly fun 350Z, and now gave us $70k+ GTR.

 

Well, GTR is great (arguable, given lack of MT), and perhaps bargain relatively, but how about sub-$30k fun car?

It seems to me like Subaru is beginning to think like all other big car manufacturer out there.

All about business and profits.//

How do you think losing market share helps Subaru?

 

Of course they need new strategies, now that the market is crowded with AWD crossovers.

Ghosn killed many fun cars Nissan had before his arrival (primarily outside the U.S.) Then he created the ugly hardly fun 350Z, and now gave us $70k+ GTR.

 

Well, GTR is great (arguable, given lack of MT), and perhaps bargain relatively, but how about sub-$30k fun car?

 

True and hopefully, he will continue to think this way and produce a $30,000 range Fun Cars out there (Highly doubt it for now).

It the GT-R proves itself to be the symbol for Nissan, maybe he might consider something Fun later on... But who knows, most of the cooperate heads are pretty much about money after all.

 

Let's just hope he is not 100% about Money

 

Have a good Turkey Day everyone!

It seems to me like Subaru is beginning to think like all other big car manufacturer out there.

All about business and profits.

That's one of the reason why you don't see any fun cars from Toyota and Honda anymore...

...I want Subaru to be able to support what they are proud of like the Boxer engine and 4WD...

 

First I want to agree with IWSS.

 

but I don't think they necessarily need to think like all the other bigs (not trying to put words in your mouth) out there where they need to have a car for every segment just to have it. I haven't tracked the profitability of all of them but it seems that some of the most successful are the ones that focus on a particular core competency, Honda, BMW, Porsche, even Toyota (by trying to be the quality leader), and bring cars/SUV's to market when they get it right.

 

I think that is what IWSS said very effectively. i.e. focus on boxers, AWD, and quality... and avoid the ugly styling of the B9 and current Impreza.

what IWSS said