Timing Belt Questions

Hello All,

 

I own a 2002 Subaru Legacy GT with a 2.5 engine (non-turbo’d). The car currently has 139K miles on it, and I know I am way past getting the timing belt replaced. I have called around to 4 different shops, two of them being dealerships, and two being independent Subaru shops. The only experience I’ve had in the past with replacing timing belts is with a ’98 Honda Accord. I called around to 4-5 different shops while looking to get the Honda timing belt serviced, and they ALL highly recommended me getting the water pump replaced as well. One place wouldn’t even do the work unless I agreed to have the water pump replaced too.

 

So back to my Subaru. The first two shops I called were local dealerships in the area. The first dealership quoted me at $500 + tax, and that was just for the timing belt. I asked him about replacing the water pump, and he said that is not something they normally do when replacing the timing belt in Subaru’s, but they will inspect it when their doing the work to make sure it is in good working order. The second dealership I called quoted me at $400 + tax, and said pretty much the exact same thing, that they don’t normally replace the water pump while replacing the timing belt, but will examine it. The third shop I called was a highly reputable Japanese only shop, and they quoted me at a little over $1,000. He said that quote includes a new timing belt, new water pump, new thermostat, new hydraulic tensioner, and all 3 new idler pulleys. The fourth shop I called was an AWD independent Subaru only shop, and their quote was right around $1000 as well, with all the new replacement parts as shop #3 quoted. I tell the guy a quick experience with the Honda, how they all highly recommended replacing the water pump, and that the two dealerships I called about my Subaru didn’t even recommend it. The guy on the phone from shop #4 said that dealerships make their money off of service and labor, and by them not replacing the water pump, they hope it will eventually break, and I will have to bring my car back into them for the service on the water pump. He said their method is to replace ANYTHING that the timing belt is attached to, so there will be little to no chance of any of the other components attached to the timing belt to fail. Either he was bring brutally honest with me, or blowing smoke up my ass. I tend to believe he was being truthful and honest.

 

The reason I am here is to ask a simple question: Pay ~$500 and just have my timing belt replaced, or double the payment to around ~$1000 and have everything replaced? In my experience, dealerships usually cost an arm and a leg, but that is because their work is performed by certified Subaru mechanics (or that’s my understanding at least), and you can almost guarantee the work will be done correct, with OEM parts. But in this case, the dealerships want half compared to the two independent Subaru shops. Should I fork up the extra $500 and have an independent shop replace the belt, water pump, and all the other bells and whistles attached to the timing belt, or am I wasting my money? Thanks in advance!!

 

Also, to anyone in the PNW or Puget Sound area, do you have any recommendations on where to take my car to be serviced? I have found one shop that I particularly like. I found this page when searching for timing belt questions, and found a blog posted by a local Subaru shop. After reading the blog (http://allwheeldriveauto.com/seattle-subaru-timing-belt-done-right/) and watching their video, I found it to be truthful and honest, and I am leaning toward having my timing belt serviced there, depending on what kind of replies I get from this post. Anyways, thanks again!!

I think it all depends on what your future plans are with the car and how much you like to gamble. Do you plan to sell the car in the next year or two, or drive it for another 100k? If you suspect the car is nearing the end of its life and you're just trying to squeeze out the last 30K or so miles, I could see gambling and just going with the belt.

 

The better shops will do the pulleys/tensioner and the water pump, that's the proper way to do the job. In my mind the pulleys/tensioner are a must. If any of them go bad, they could sieze, trash the belt in a matter of seconds, and might even cause damage to the motor. At that point you would have been just as good with the old belt.

 

When water pumps go bad they usually just weep coolant, which is generally more annoying rather than catastrophic as long as you know it's happening. If you do have to take the car back to have the water pump replaced, expect another $500-600 bill.

 

Also, I wouldn't put too much stock in the dealer mechanics being better than independent shops. Being "Subaru Certified" might be important for new cars, but for a car that is 10+ years old it doesn't mean much. In fact the least experienced guy in the shop may end up working on your car since it doesn't require a lot of special training.

 

HTH

I pretty much can agree with everything Charged said. Especially getting the tensioner/idlers replaced with the belt. I have seen/helped 3 people with "failed timing belts" in their subaru that turned out to not be the belt, but a failed idler that "the last guy" didn't replace in order to save a buck. In one case the idler pulley seized and literally spun on the bolt until it ground the bolt off flush with the block (vibration destroyed the soft aluminum threads and we had to drill, tap and heli-coil it). Another, the bearings burned up and were gone and just left the pulley bouncing around on the center hub till the belt jumped a few teeth and the car stopped. These were both older subarus and non-interference heads... so there was no damage inside. Newer subarus (DOHC and I think some SOHC) will not be so lucky and get expensive fast (think "new engine").

 

My long winded point is the flat 4 design has a rather big timing belt with 4 pullies (3 idlers and 1 tensioner), they are under more load than those of most engines and NEED to be replaced the same time as the belt. The water pump is a toss up depending on your budget more than anything. I've done them at the same time for the added piece of mind and I've also skipped it and been fine.

 

You might want to keep looking for better price on a pump... 500 to add a pump to the belt job seems a bit much to me. To give you an idea... I think I paid around $128 for my last belt/pulley kit and a little more than that for the water pump. I can understand a few hundred in labor to take the front of the engine apart and put it all back together... but to charge that much more in labor when it is already all apart seems wrong to me. But then again I've never in my life paid for vehicle work so I could be out of line.

 

GL

edit:zomgwtf spellcheck!

When I had the TB don't on my 92 Civic Si at 120K they left the water pump in there because it had zero shaft play. I changed the coolant out every 2 years.

 

My 05 wagon is the first Subaru that I had long enough to replace the TB. I changed all the parts including the 2 drive belts.

 

The parts & fluids alone were $500. Using all parts from Advance Auto Parts. I did the labor.

 

What are your plans for this 13 y/o car ?

Thank all to the replies. While the car is 13 years old, I have no plans in the near future to get rid of it, and plan to drive it for a few more years. While I try to do as much auto maintenance as my knowledge will let me, I feel like replacing the timing belt is a bit over my head, and would prefer to pay to have it done the correct way.

 

I think I am going to fork up the extra $500, and just have everything replaced, including the water pump. After reading your responses, I think I would rather pay the extra money have have the added insurance that everything is replaced, rather than gamble and hope that nothing goes wrong after the TB replacement.

 

Thank you all for your responses, I really appreciate it!

Good choice ... personally, I would have gone the 'replace all' route also given your plans.

The belts themselves rarely ever fail. It is the tensioner that usually fails.

 

Anyway we charge about $725 for the complete timing belt service (Belt, tensioner, idlers, water pump, t-stat, fluid, etc)

 

-Mike Paisan

 

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The belts themselves rarely ever fail. It is the tensioner that usually fails.

 

Anyway we charge about $725 for the complete timing belt service (Belt, tensioner, idlers, water pump, t-stat, fluid, etc)

 

-Mike Paisan

 

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg

11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.

Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.

Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs

"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

 

 

Not a bad price, if you've ever done this job yourself, you understand why it cost so much.

The belts themselves rarely ever fail. It is the tensioner that usually fails.

 

Anyway we charge about $725 for the complete timing belt service (Belt, tensioner, idlers, water pump, t-stat, fluid, etc)

 

-Mike Paisan

 

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg

11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.

Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.

Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs

"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

 

ooh, i might be bringing my car to you guys within the next 10k miles.

ooh, i might be bringing my car to you guys within the next 10k miles.

 

Anytime, just give us an e-mail or call and we'll get you on the calendar!

 

-Mike Paisan

 

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11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.

Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.

Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs

"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

it'll be about 6 months, but i can guarantee a visit

The belts themselves rarely ever fail. It is the tensioner that usually fails.

 

Anyway we charge about $725 for the complete timing belt service (Belt, tensioner, idlers, water pump, t-stat, fluid, etc)

 

-Mike Paisan

 

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/145749898/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg

11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.

Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.

Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs

"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

 

Not a bad price at all. For the pain in the ass it is, if I lived in NJ, you would have the business when it comes due.