Mild drop - Do I need front camber bolts? Plus a tire shimmy question.

Hi folks,

Got a couple questions after my ordeal the last couple days. My car specs:

• 05 LGT Sedan (90k)
  
• MSI Springs on Koni's
  
• AVO front bushings
  
• Rallitek front endlinks
  
• 17x7.5 Drag DR-34's
  
• 225/45/17 Falken Ziex 912's
  

My wife had my car for a couple days & I was driving her SUV. She said she heard something flapping on the driver's side front. Had a chance to look at it & turns out the tires were shredding on the inside lip. Reached my hand back there & just felt the steel wires sticking out.

These were 225/45/17 Yoko Avid EnVigors, which, I have to say were some of the worst tires I've ever owned. They get some decent reviews, but maybe I got a bad batch or something...they were terrible for me. Had just over 30k on them & rotated them regularly. Just glad I found the problem before something bad happened.

Anyway, I was able to get the car to the shop that evening after realizing how bad the tires were & the shop replaced them the next day with the Falken's. They suggested I install front camber bolts to avoid this happening again, so I gave them the go ahead. But whatever bolts they sourced apparently did not fit, so they were not installed. So they just aligned the front end & I picked it up last night. I was told they'd call on Monday to discuss installing them next week. Little leary about it now tho since I dont know what they tried or will try to install. Would rather just source the parts myself. I did the Koni's/springs myself, but figured since it was there I'd just pay them instead of doing it in the cold in my driveway.

So...leads me to a couple questions...

First, would you suggest new camber bolts with the suspension set up I have? It's a mild drop & it was my understanding you could get enough adjustment out of the stock set up. The car is not auto-x'd or anything...just a daily driver.

Even after the brand new tires, alignment & balancing the car pulls to the right & I still have shimmy in the wheel from 60 & up. The shimmy is something I've been dealing with on this car for probably 3 years. Numerous balances/alignments & even road force balancing...and still, shimmy. Almost everything has been replaced...suspension, rims, tires, rotors, pads...you name it.

Is this just a driving characteristic of lowered cars? (I came from a lifted Jeep to this car...so excuse my ignorance). Just cant get a dead smooth wheel in this car no matter what I do...any thoughts? I was hoping the new tires would have cleared this up...

Any help/suggestions is greatly appreciated!

This is not normal. You should not have any issues. Something is wrong.

Yeah, figured as much... I've pretty much just resigned myself to living with it till I can trade it in. I've had a bunch of shops look at it & I'm still :confused:

it's impossible to have too much camber on the stock struts, tophats, and adjustment bolts.

How do the LCA bushings look and do you have a printout of the alignment numbers?

Just to clarify, jamal is asking about the rear LCA bushing. The round one at the rear of the lower arm that runs perpendicular to the ground. They are notorious for wearing out and tearing. When they go bad it causes a shimmy at freeway speeds.

Are the Konis installed correctly?

With Konis and MSI springs you should be able to achieve OEM alignment settings.

it's impossible to have too much camber on the stock struts, tophats, and adjustment bolts.

 

How do the LCA bushings look and do you have a printout of the alignment numbers?

Just to clarify, jamal is asking about the rear LCA bushing. The round one at the rear of the lower arm that runs perpendicular to the ground. They are notorious for wearing out and tearing. When they go bad it causes a shimmy at freeway speeds.

 

Are the Konis installed correctly?

 

With Konis and MSI springs you should be able to achieve OEM alignment settings.

Thanks for the replies guys...

LCA bushings have been replaced with AVOs when the stocks were torn. But I have not checked on them lately to see how they've held up.

Unfortunately I did not receive an alignment printout this time. I dont know if they can provide one after the fact, but I'll ask on Monday to see if they were able to get within spec.

The Konis to the best of my knowledge are installed correctly. I had my car to AZP Installs last year for some work & they looked them over for me when they did the AVO bushings & endlinks & gave them the OK.

Check your wheels for trueness. My DR-33s were bent and caused uneven tire wear (I still need to swap my LCA with my whiteline kit, which I think is the other part of my issue).

I've had bad alignments before. They may have also put the bolts in the strut wrong.

Hmmm. If AZP has checked out the car and not been able to diagnose you have some gremlins.

Yeah, I don't doubt it. I bought this car at a dealer auction (went in as a 'driver'). Got a great deal on it...but you take the chance in not knowing the history of the car.

Check your wheels for trueness. My DR-33s were bent and caused uneven tire wear (I still need to swap my LCA with my whiteline kit, which I think is the other part of my issue).

 

I've had bad alignments before. They may have also put the bolts in the strut wrong.

Good point! I would think the balance wouldve showed something tho. I didn't have them roadforce balanced this time, but have in the past & they didnt show anything. Reason I bought these is that my other rims (WRX rims) had gotten bent from hitting a nasty pothole. Maybe that pothole did some more damage?

Anyway...I think I'm just gonna drive this another 6 months as I take it back to stock & just trade it in. I love the car...but this sucks.

Over time the bent wheels take their toll on the tires, so the tires wear unevenly and it becomes more noticeable. If it was a hard hit, it is possible to have bent something if the car bottomed out. I guess the best thing to do is put the car on stands or lift and drive it at 60mph to see if there is indeed any shimmy.

I also recollect someone - might have been AZP - that had a car / customer with a bent hub or brake disc that caused the vibration. They had to take the wheel off and drive the vehicle to notice the brake disc was severly bent.

Hey just saw this thread. Best thing to do is get the alignment checked. Even a little toe can destroy a tire. Also one thing that has popped up recently that we have seen are bent LCA studs (the ones coming off the car). A customer had 2 Whiteline LCA kits get eaten up and after lots of looking over the car we saw the studs were bent in toward the middle of the car. He had hit something hard to do that.

We've had a few cars come through with something bent like that. Wheels, and the steel control arms can only take so much before they bend. I normally get my car checked after the winter to be ready for the track season just to be safe.

-Jake

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Over time the bent wheels take their toll on the tires, so the tires wear unevenly and it becomes more noticeable. If it was a hard hit, it is possible to have bent something if the car bottomed out. I guess the best thing to do is put the car on stands or lift and drive it at 60mph to see if there is indeed any shimmy.

 

I also recollect someone - might have been AZP - that had a car / customer with a bent hub or brake disc that caused the vibration. They had to take the wheel off and drive the vehicle to notice the brake disc was severly bent.

Hey just saw this thread. Best thing to do is get the alignment checked. Even a little toe can destroy a tire. Also one thing that has popped up recently that we have seen are bent LCA studs (the ones coming off the car). A customer had 2 Whiteline LCA kits get eaten up and after lots of looking over the car we saw the studs were bent in toward the middle of the car. He had hit something hard to do that.

 

We've had a few cars come through with something bent like that. Wheels, and the steel control arms can only take so much before they bend. I normally get my car checked after the winter to be ready for the track season just to be safe.

 

-Jake

Thanks guys! A bent hub/disc is something that I've been wondering about. Those are like the only things I HAVENT replaced on this car. Would you trust the stealership to look at something like this? Not too many places around I know of that are all that good. I'd go up to AZP, but they're almost 2 hours away & I'd have to take off work to go up there.

I actually took my car to the dealer for a balance since I could get it in same day. They told me my center diff was grinding and my wheels were bent. They didn't charge me anything. I was happy to not have to pay .

Thanks again man. I need an oil change, so I may just swing by the dealer & see if they can take a look. I'm hoping the rims arent bent...I bought them to replace the rims I did bend. Hopefully it's the hub or something easily replaced.

Snapped a pic at lunch time (lousy cell phone pic) of how she sits right now...as you can see, not a big drop at all:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/kramonut/05%20Legacy%20GT/Legacy12511.jpg

Might as well fix it. Don't let some punk trash it in 6 months Clean whip, yo.

FYI: I took it to Matt Slap in Newark, DE. (I just googled where Swedesboro is).

A GOOD dealership is only dealership I would take it to. The shimmy could be a wheel threw a weight, bent wheel, badly balanced wheel. Anyone with a brain should be able to balance the wheel properly. But you said that you've changed numerous parts to no avail.

Also check the tie rods and ball joints on the car. They do wear out and replacing them can change the car drastically. You may not have a ripped boot or anything but the joint is just soft.

A warped rotor is possibly but I don't think you would feel it just cruising at highway speed. A "warp" in a rotor can define many things. 1) Rotor over heated and changed shape (hard to do under normal driving) 2) Pad material has left a deposit on the rotor and creates a high spot. Hence the vibration when you brake.

Another possibility, wheel bearings. Most of the time bearing make lots of noise before they go, but if the bearing has destroyed itself in the hub the wheel can move dynamically. We had an 05 OBXT, whose wheel was flopping around, no odd noises until he got into 5th gear.

Just trying to give you things to look at. For the wheel bearing and tie rod check, get the front of the car on jack stands and shake the wheel. You shouldnt hear any clunking or have any drastic movement. You can do the same for the rear but be cautious.

-Jake

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://upload.pbase.com/image/137566671.jpg Call directly for your best Whiteline Price! | We also carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.

AIM: AZP Installs | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber

"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

Thanks again all!!

Car is at the dealer right now...so I'll report back with what they come up with.

I would be surprised if the rotors are the culprit...as they were installed by you guys (AZP ) less than a year ago IIRC. But, who knows?

btw - Is there some kind of law or is it just a liability issue that shops/dealers won't road test a car beyond a certain speed? I told them there's shimmy at 60+ & this is the second or third place that has told me they dont road test cars that fast... How they gonna feel what I feel if they dont test it themselves?

Also check the tie rods and ball joints on the car. They do wear out and replacing them can change the car drastically. You may not have a ripped boot or anything but the joint is just soft.

DING DING DING DING! We have a winner!

Dealership said I have a bad tie-rod end, boot is torn, bent rim...

Glad to hear you found the issue. As far as shop testing shimmies at speed, they won't test over a speed limit. So in NJ 65 is the fastest they will go. The tie rod isnt a horrible fix but the bent rim is annoying. Make sure to replace it or have a good shop fix it.

-Jake

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://upload.pbase.com/image/137566671.jpg Call directly for your best Whiteline Price! | We also carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.

AIM: AZP Installs | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber

"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

Glad to hear you found the issue. As far as shop testing shimmies at speed, they won't test over a speed limit. So in NJ 65 is the fastest they will go. The tie rod isnt a horrible fix but the bent rim is annoying. Make sure to replace it or have a good shop fix it.

 

-Jake

Well...got the tie rod done today at the dealer, moved the bent rim to the back, re-aligned & it made no difference. Still shimmys terribly...now my butt shimmys too from the bent rim in the back. Maybe the hub is fubar'd? This sucks...dumping money into this thing & cant figure this out.

My best recommendation is bring it back to AZP and let Mike and his guys give it another shot.

Car was never in an accident? Sorry, have to ask.

I'm on a set of stockers off my brother's car and I still have a shimmy I was attributing it to his uneven tire wear (noticeable) from S-techs and piss poor alignment / bad FR wheel bearing.

If you drove on the tires you have now, it could be that they are unevenly worn. In my case, the shimmy is not as bad as it was with the supposedly bent wheels, but it is still noticeable.

My best recommendation is bring it back to AZP and let Mike and his guys give it another shot.

 

Car was never in an accident? Sorry, have to ask.

I bought the car at a dealer auction & post-auction report said it was in an accident, but no frame damage...unless they lied to me. My brother is a body shop manager & looked it over & saw that it was hit in the back but repaired pretty well. I'll have to talk to him & see if he thinks its worth putting on the frame machine.

I agree about going back to AZP... Just gonna have to buckle down & drive up there.

I'm on a set of stockers off my brother's car and I still have a shimmy I was attributing it to his uneven tire wear (noticeable) from S-techs and piss poor alignment / bad FR wheel bearing.

 

If you drove on the tires you have now, it could be that they are unevenly worn. In my case, the shimmy is not as bad as it was with the supposedly bent wheels, but it is still noticeable.

Sorry to hear youre still dealing with shimmy... My tires are only a week old. I found a thread I started last october about this issue & I'm still trying to figure it out. Didnt realize how much time passed & I had just been living with it.