Timing belt replacement, Cams out of alignment

It's getting late and I dont have time to search anymore... Sorry if there is a thread besides this one:

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/timing-belt-replacement-2-5t-106809.html?t=106809&highlight=timing+cams

 

While working on my 05 Legacy GT, my driver side cams jumped out of place after releasing my auto tensioner. I was expecting this, however I wasn't expecting to not be able to get them lined up again...

 

As per the thread listed above, I have tried turning the cams one by one (both clockwise and Counter clockwise). I have also tried turning them simultaneously. I am STUCK. What am I doing wrong?

 

I am by no means a mechanic, but I do my best. I don't fully understand how this all works. Do I need to be turning the crank with the cams? I haven't tried this because my passenger side cams are lined up and I sure as hell don't want to mess with that side as well.

 

I am regretting not buying overpriced cam locks now. Any help would be very appreciated!

This was a headache, but this is how I did it. I ligned up the ones on the right, put the belt on them, and then I clamped the timing belt so the tension of one cam kept the other in place. Little by little I put the belt where it needs to be ensuring I kept some tension on it. I think I removed all the rollers so I had enough slack to get it on the left cams. Once it was on both sets of cams I installed the rollers and released the tension on the hydraulic tensioner. manual tension, either by a clamp or pressure is the key to keeping the cams from moving. Hope that helps...

If you're trying to align the timing marks on the belt to the timing marks on the cams, it's going to be tough. The best method is to forget about the timing marks on the belt and just align the cams. Here is what I do when replacing the belt.

 

1. Align the crank gear and place the belt on the gear.

2. Align the Passenger side and wrap the belt from the top cam to the lower cam.

3. Make sure the tension pulley is decompressed and secured with a small allen wrench.

4. Align the top driver side cam and wrap the belt around, making sure there's no play in the belt. Keep a little tension on the belt so the cam doesn't spin back.

5. Align the lower driver side cam and tightly wrap the belt around.

6. While keeping the belt tight at the bottom, reinstall the lower pulley and secure.

7. Once everything looks good and align, release the tensioner allen wrench.

8. Turn the crank gear clockwise a few times until the 2 upper cam gears marks align back up. Check the 2 lower cam gear marks for alignment. Make sure all 5 marks (crank & 4 cam gears) align back up after rotating the motor, then you're good to go.

 

I usually repeat step 8 a few times just to make sure.

http://people.csail.mit.edu/ilh/vacation/

 

look it up in the 2005 service manual. The GT's start around page 1600 the back of the book has good info on how things work too.

Read over what F1inspiredLGT wrote and see the youtube video at the link below. The guy in the video does exactly as F1 describes and is what I did last year when I did this. Note that the top cam on the driver's side is rotated clockwise and the bottom cam is rotated counter clockwise.

 

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1PunROR3VU&sns=em]Subaru timing belt installation - YouTube[/ame]

After a whole bunch of curse words and pinched fingers I got that mother on. Really could've used an extra hand haha. I ended up making some curved wooden triangles to keep the cams in place while I matched up the top notch.

 

After putting everything back on and starting her up I noticed the cam shaft wobbling by just the slightest amount. I would assume all the torque I put on it would have straightened it pretty good but I'm gonna take off the serpentine belts today and try to re-adjust it. Has anyone else had a problem with that?

Is it the cam shaft or the sprocket that wobbles? It shouldn't wobble at all.

Or the crank shaft pulley ?

i am having trouble with this as well. i lined up all the marks on the cam sprockets and engine cover the best i could and when i torqued the crank pullet bolt back in and rotated the engine a couple times, i noticed that the marks were not comletely alinged and when i had set them..(the marks on the cam sprocket and engine, not the belt)

 

when i crank the engine manually it feels fine witout any binding or noises...am i good to go or should i tear it back down again and re-do?

Did you release the tensioner prior to turning the engine? When you release the tensioner the marks on the driver side intake cam move a little out of alignment as the belt is placed in tension.

hmm at first i was turning the engine with the pin still in the tensioner..i am trying to recall how much out of alignment the marks were after i pulled the pin..i dont remeber them being wayyy off and like i said manually cranking the engine didnt feel or sound wrong..

 

what would you recommend, that it is good as is, or that I open it up again and redo the positioning?

right now i still have to install the drive belts and radiator and fill up coolant. all i reinstalled so far are timing covers and a new grimmspeed light pulley torqued to 95 ft-lbs

For peace of mind i would take the covers off and rotate the engine until the crank timing mark and cam marks line up. I'm attaching a pic of my belt just prior to pulling the pin on tensioner. I believe only the drivers side intake cam will move a tiny bit.

yours marks are pretty squarely lined up. mine were like that before i pulled the pin from the tensioner but after a few manual cranks the double marks on the drivers side were off slightly, i dont remember the positioning after pulling the pin. i will take the covers off and check again

i have a feeling that when i applied to torque to loosen and tighten the crank pulley bolt that moved the positioning off a bit. i used the car 5th gear, brake pedal pressed method to remove and re tighten the crank bolt

ok so i took off the cam sprocket covers and took a close look turns out I am about 1 tooth off on the lower drivers side gear and same or even less off on the passenger side top gear. weird thing is the top drivers side gear looks perfectly aligned and so does the the bottom gear side mark, just the 6oclock double ticks read about a tooth off..is this within acceptable spec so that i can just leave it be or should i undo everything again?

Place everything according to marks when the belt is tensioned. The marks are somewhat approximate.

 

Also see here for alignment:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4487789&postcount=359

i was wrong about the misalignment, looks like i am half a tooth off on the top when the double ticks are perfectly aligned on the bottom as well as the pasenger side is perfect too...i still need to take off the crank pulley again to see where the crank marks are lining up

i was wrong about the misalignment, looks like i am half a tooth off on the top when the double ticks are perfectly aligned on the bottom as well as the pasenger side is perfect too...i still need to take off the crank pulley again to see where the crank marks are lining up

 

Half a tooth - that's "impossible".

 

B.t.w. - check the crank pulley if it's wobbling, it may separate. You may even want to get a lightweight crank pulley instead to make sure that you are safe from that problem: http://www.grimmspeed.com/lightweight-crank-pulley-subaru/

hah thats the exact same pulley i bought and swapped! got the red one to match the car

 

what i meant by half tooth is the "valley" of the tooth (sorry dont know how else to describe but ill try to get a pic asap)..maybe it is 1 tooth but the bottom and side ticks are in line on the drivers and passenger side, as well as the passenger top tick, only one not 100% aligned now is the drivers side top tick...

If I remember correctly there shall also be "double" ticks that shall meet between the intake and exhaust sprockets, and a single tick that shall meet the top mark on the intake sprocket. But I don't have the documentation at hand and am at a low bandwidth connection right now so I can't check.

 

B.t.w. if the lightweight pulley wobbles you may have a bad one - or didn't install it correctly.

http://people.csail.mit.edu/ilh/vacation/

 

look it up in the 2005 service manual. The GT's start around page 1600 the back of the book has good info on how things work too.

 

 

 

Did you read this ?

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/timing-belt-replacement-2-5t-106809.html

If I remember correctly there shall also be "double" ticks that shall meet between the intake and exhaust sprockets, and a single tick that shall meet the top mark on the intake sprocket. But I don't have the documentation at hand and am at a low bandwidth connection right now so I can't check.

 

B.t.w. if the lightweight pulley wobbles you may have a bad one - or didn't install it correctly.

no the pulley is fine, i have just decided to re-do everything to and try to get it spot on this time...ill report back when i am done with pics

 

thanks

Take a good look at the cam that was wobbling. The cam gear is made of plastic, you may have cracked them.

nothing is wobbling...im just having a hard time lining up the drivers side...everytime i stretch the belt over the teeth, the top or bottom cam slips slightly out of place causing the marks to get out of line....really frustrating the hell out of me now

You should not have tension on the belt at this time. Did you re-compress the tensioner ?

 

You place the belt over the gears and then lift it over the lower left side pulley last.

 

Took me a few hours to figure that one out. That is also in the manual.

 

 

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x40/92Si/Picture075.jpg

When timing marks are all aligned, the passenger side cams have no tension on them. The driver's side cams, both intake and exhaust do have valve spring tension and want to rotate.

If you do what the guy on the video (link I posted previously) does it should be straightforward. You use the belt itself to hold the cams in place when you rotate them into position.(you need to pull on the belt some to keep the intake cam from rotating as you position the exhaust cam to the proper marks)