Need help/advice on pulling EJ25D with auto tranny

Ok guys, need some advice or help. I'm new to this forum but not new to Subaru's. I have 3 of my own but do not have a Legacy Outback. My son and I are going to help a buddy out by helping him fix some oil leaks on his sons 1998 Legacy Outback wagon. Its has a EJ25D with an automatic transmission in it. I have read few posts that talk about night mare stories about how their transmission didn't work after they pulled engine. I have never pulled an engine with an automatic transmission only manuals. I'm pretty confident we can do it if I knew how to properly separate the two units. I have read some on a flex plate and that this is where I should separate them (4 bolts?) and leave TC alone. Some say the TC slips out of place and is a pain to get back in place. Does anyone have some pictures and a procedure on how to separate the engine from the automatic transmission in order to pull engine? Once engine is out I'm golden. I do not have a shop manual of this car, has hoping one of you guys might have something or know of a place that does. Thanks a ton fellas!

Step by Step of motor pull

 

Factory Service Manuals

Step by Step of motor pull

 

Factory Service Manuals

Thanks for the links. The step by step is good, would you happen to know of one that helps step you through a pull with an automatic transmission? Thanks again....

The DIY is pretty good. The main difference with pulling an engine from an auto are the four bolts that hold the flex plate to the torque converter. There is a small black plastic cover on top of the bell housing that you remove to access the bolts. Often the cover is missing. Rotate the engine with a breaker bar and a socket on the crank pulley until you see one of the bolts and remove it. Iirc they are 14 mm bolts, maybe 12 mm. It's easy to drop them so be careful. The intake manifold makes it a little cramped to get at them but its definitely doable.

 

I have the 90-94 FSM and it has a very detailed step by step procedure for removing the engine and that is what I used as a guide. I can email it to you if you'd like. Send me a pm with your email address.

 

Edit: I posted the parts of the FSM that details engine removal here: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/blown-head-gasketi-186097.html

The DIY is pretty good. The main difference with pulling an engine from an auto are the four bolts that hold the flex plate to the torque converter. There is a small black plastic cover on top of the bell housing that you remove to access the bolts. Often the cover is missing. Rotate the engine with a breaker bar and a socket on the crank pulley until you see one of the bolts and remove it. Iirc they are 14 mm bolts, maybe 12 mm. It's easy to drop them so be careful. The intake manifold makes it a little cramped to get at them but its definitely doable.

 

I have the 90-94 FSM and it has a very detailed step by step procedure for removing the engine and that is what I used as a guide. I can email it to you if you'd like. Send me a pm with your email address.

 

Edit: I posted the parts of the FSM that details engine removal here: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/blown-head-gasketi-186097.html

Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it. Do we need to do anything to keep TC in place? Some of the posts I have read talk about the TC moving and having a hard time getting TC back in place and some posts even talk about their transmission not working after putting engine back in. Does the TC stay in place while removing engine? Do I need to worry about it moving when pulling engine away from transmission? Does the flex plate bolt to crank? From what I understand the flex plate bolts to TC right? Sorry for all the questions, just want to do our best to pull it out correctly so we don't screw anything up. Thanks...

As long as you remove the bolts that hold the flex plate to the tc it should stay put. At least it did when I pulled my engine. I've also read threads where the tc moved and wouldn't go back on but sometimes that happened because they forgot to remove the bolts before pulling the engine.

 

The flex plate bolts to the crank and the flex plate bolts to the tc.

 

Just curious, why are you pulling the engine? Is the separator or rear main seal leaking? Have you thought about replacing the head gaskets and doing the timing belt, pulleys and water pump, etc. while you have the engine out?

Thanks for all the advice guys. Actually got engine out and back in with no issues

TC stayed in place, I have read stories with bad results but I think your right in they probably forgot to unbolt TC from flex plate. Anyway all went well and car is back on road. The reason engine was pulled was due to oil leaking from back part of engine along with valve covers. Actually once we dug into this car it's leaking from everywhere. So we read up on where oil normally leaks from rear part of engine and replaced oil separator plate, rear main seal and both valve cover gaskets. Once engine was back we the noticed there was still a oil leak and it appears to be coming from timing belt cover. We will probably do cam seals, cam shaft seal, oil pan and oil pump seal and o ring next on this car. Power steering pump is leaking too and I think this is fixable too with a new o-ring. Anyway thats next on the list. This poor car leaks from everywhere. We are hoping the timing belt isn't covered in oil as it was replaced not long ago. If it is we will probably get with owner and do it again since it will be already off. This car belongs to friends of ours and their high school son drives it. They wont let him park in the driveway until all leaks are fixed so the rear is done now we move to front of engine. Has anyone done the oil pan with engine in car? Looks doable and we should have done it while engine was out but didn't. It also looks like there is no gasket for the oil pan, only sealant. Thanks guys...

That's great news!

 

Use RTV sealant for the oil pan. Permatex Ultra Gray is sufficient. You can reseal the oil pan with the engine in the bay buti will be harder of course. I've only done it with the engine out but I've read that you can access the rearmost bolts with some ingenuity. Another option is to unbolt the motor mounts and jack the engine up a bit. You may also run into some trouble with the oil pickup getting in the way of removing the pan.

 

Make sure it is leaking before bothering with removal.

 

That's too bad you didn't replace the cam seals when the engine was out.

i think you have to lift the engine to reach all the bolts. but i would wait and do that one last. the factory seal usually does not leak.

 

on the front oil leaks, do the cam, & crank seals. also remove the oil pump, replace the o-ring, check the screws on the backing plate, and reseal it.

 

if there is ''oil'' on top of the block passenger side there are 2 possibilities. the power steering pump is the most common, oil pressure sensor is second (under the alt).

 

the power steering fluid (ATF) leak is usually the o-ring in between the reservoir and the pump. easy fix. one bolt for one of the lines, one clamp for the other line and one bolt inside the reservoir. easy-peasy.

 

again, i'd wait on the oil pan. it may look like it is leaking but they usually don't. i have owned 7, all used with at least 75k miles, driven them almost 300k miles and never had to redo the oil pan gasket.

 

good luck.

Hi all, yep I'm new however I think I can help with your question, yes lots of times the autos tend not to work after an engine re&re due to the solinoids and or wires in the valve body of the trans getting crushed or cut. As stated above all the bolts are accesabul to the bell housing, save yourself some work and remove the intake manifold. You do not have to uin wire the alt or discharge the AC as it just swings out of the way, same with the PS. Pull the Rad and fans as a unit, and once the intake is off the plug for the converter bolts is right there.

 

Now where the trans issue is. When you go to reinstall the engine you will need to Jack the trans up. If you Jack on the pan with just the Jack pad it will dent, crushing the solinoids on newer units and citing the wire on the older ones. Use a large peace of wood to distribute the load evenly.

 

I've seen it done wrong at the Subaru dealership I worked at.

Also before reinstalling the engine check the access cover on the back of the block, some were plastic and would warp thus creating a leak. If its plastic upgrade it with the newer aluminum cover.

 

Did heads on an impreza last week, dam thing had 8 bellhousing bolts. But some have as few as 4.

 

Hope this helps.

Thanks a ton guys! Ya it sucks that seals in front didn't get done, we didn't have the parts when engine was out and we wanted to get car done on sunday because this is his only car so he needed it today to go to school. It wont be as easy but probably doable. Will do on oil pan, we will be sure to wait until last on it. What about the cam cap o-rings? Read some stuff on them, should I change them out while in there? Planning on calling Subaru in the next few days to get all the parts for the next go around. Thanks fella's....pete

Johnegg would know this for sure, but the 25Ds don't have two cam cap o-rings like the earlier 22Es.

 

The crank seals and the oil pump are easy to remove and replace even with the engine in the car. Remove the radiator for more room to work of course. Since you will be draining the radiator again, it might be wise to check the thermostat and make sure it is a working OEM Subaru thermostat. Only $23 from the dealership. Anything else is a gamble and not worth the odds.

as mentioned, remove the radiator for more room, but fans only is doable especially if you do not need to drain the cooling system for any other reason. just be carful.

 

the t-stat does need to be a subaru part, but if it is not acting up there is not any reason to replace it, imho. they have a bad ''rap'' and cause folks a lot of head aches. but , imho, this is after they are replaced with cheap after market units. and this is usually done as a preventative measure.

 

i have replaced them myself, but i have never had one go bad. head gaskets yes, water pumps yes, t-stats no.

 

links below for parts display and numbers. no cam cap o-rings on the ej25d. also a good time to do ALL the timing idlers and tensioner. do them all now and do not go back in for 105k miles. timing parts = ''theimportexperts'' on ebay. good quality parts for a good price. there are cheaper parts but not better parts cheaper.

4 cam seals

1 crank seal

1 oil pump o-ring

1 tube sealant, RTV type

 

http://opposedforces.com/parts/legacy/us_b11/type_45/engine/camshaft_and_timing_belt/illustration_2/

 

http://opposedforces.com/parts/legacy/us_b11/type_45/lubrication_system/oil_pump_and_filter/

 

http://opposedforces.com/parts/legacy/us_b11/type_45/engine/camshaft_and_timing_belt/illustration_1/

 

i feel like i have forgotten something.

Thanks for all the input fella's! Johnegg, question for you. The timing belt was changed like 10,000 miles ago by a local shop. This was done before my buddy bought the car (he has a receipt that shows the work was done). My thought was that if the belt didn't have oil on it I was going to re-install it but if it was covered in oil from all the leaks I was going to recommend to my buddy to change it. What's your thoughts on that? I have heard you don't want these belt(s) to have oil on them at all as it degrades them....

oil soaked is bad, replace it.

 

but usually it is not the belt that fails, but an idler.

on the two i have seen, both with less than 200k, the toothed idler failed and seized which caused one of the cam sprockets to fail. the belt is damaged by the seized idler.

 

the water pump is driven by the smooth side of the belt. if it seizes, the belt will continue to run, turning the cams for a bit until it heats up enough to bust it. but usually the engine over heats first.

 

if the belt is in good condition no need to replace it.but i would review the receipt for the timing belt carefully. not many shop replace all the idlers as a matter of course, only if needed. and not all idlers make it to 200k miles.

Ok will do johnegg. Thanks for the advice...