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E85 and Meth


05pearl

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I have heard several discussions involving whether E85 is better than meth... I could not find a direct discussion on using both together.

 

I already had water meth injection on my car (DB 20G) when I decided to try an E85 tune. As long as I was tuning, I thought it wouldd be a good opportunity to compare 91oct, 91oct + meth, E85 and E85 + meth.

 

Guess what... E85 is great. E85 + meth even better!! All tunes were on the same 75 deg day in Colorado. My 91 oct + meth tune was about 10 HP lower and 20 WTQ lower compared to my tune last winter when it was about 35 deg out.

 

The car moves! (and it was nice to fill up at $2.69/gal)

Dyno.91oct.JPG.1b314b3df9711dcc6be1b1a81ccdc77d.JPG

Dyno.91oct_meth.JPG.a45f93c5f164268bd40661fe8c404532.JPG

Dyno_E85.JPG.13809ed267ddc6d201605fd85df7b718.JPG

Dyno_E85_meth.JPG.ae4b330be5d2d83e41f09eae32fb135a.JPG

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Great results, nice to see how the different fuels react on the same car. Only thing suprising to me is you only gained 15whp from pump 91 vs 91/meth, I would of thought it waould of been a bit more. Now it is time for a FMIC :icon_twis
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Nice post, good data, me like!:):):)

 

I think the benefit of meth is more the cooling then the extra octane. If you never had freezing temps I would say inject a small amount of 80water/20 meth (or even less meth) and have a safer tune in the event of an alky failure. But for you that might not work.

 

+1 on a FMIC, our TMIC can only flow so much.:mad:

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I can't wait to see what I put down with e85 this week. Very promising results, how does your car feel with a year of the 20g under its belt? Does it still feel fast or do you feel the need for more power?

 

The car feels much faster. Must be from the almost +50 WTQ increase over the 91+meth tune I was running on. I was surprised that it also spools a little quicker.

 

I hope I am close to recovering from the mod bug. But, I am guessing the next mod may be a new clutch. ;)

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Nice post, good data, me like!:):):)

 

I think the benefit of meth is more the cooling then the extra octane. If you never had freezing temps I would say inject a small amount of 80water/20 meth (or even less meth) and have a safer tune in the event of an alky failure. But for you that might not work.

 

+1 on a FMIC, our TMIC can only flow so much.:mad:

 

I have thought seriously about a FMIC. I have tried to stay real sleepy. And, I guess it's just the way my mods have progressed as to why I am still TMIC. I have a bad feeling that if I ever go FMIC I will then have to go rotated. ^^Didn't I just say I am trying to get over the mod bug. :lol:

 

Labonte safety system for the water/meth injection.

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Thanks for the dyno charts! My car dyno'd on that dyno last year and based off your percentage power gain from 91oct to E85 that would put me at 260whp (VF40). That 20g turbo is my likely final power upgrade (next year) on this LGT so nice to know what that will net me. I'm a little surprised that E85 > meth. Sounds like you buy E85 the same place I do ($2.69/gal).

My '05 LGT

My '07 Supercharged Shelby

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I filled up for $2.69/gal at Western Convenience in Longmont (15th and Main) on my way back to Fort Collins. Same price as the Western Convenience at Drake and Shields in Fort Collins. As far as E85 > meth; note that I am just using -20 deg Peak winshield washer fluid. So, it's about 30% meth and not 50/50 water/meth. I don't know if 50/50 would be any closer to the E85 pull.
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We are typically seeing gains of +10% whp +12% ftlb on E-85. Cost per mile is definitly cheaper and it's better for your engine. We've been running race cars on E-85 for over 2 years now and no issues besides the hard start in the cold.

 

My personal opinion on meth is, not needed (If you have E-85 as an option) since it is just one more thing that can break your engine if a pump fails. At least it's not needed unless your doing high hp builds.

 

But, that is my personal opinion, we are divided at the shop but i've seen a few too many meth kits fail with catastrophic results.

Adam & Matt

Revolutions Performance

417 E. Vermijo

Colorado Springs, CO 80903

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We are typically seeing gains of +10% whp +12% ftlb on E-85. Cost per mile is definitly cheaper and it's better for your engine. We've been running race cars on E-85 for over 2 years now and no issues besides the hard start in the cold.

 

My personal opinion on meth is, not needed (If you have E-85 as an option) since it is just one more thing that can break your engine if a pump fails. At least it's not needed unless your doing high hp builds.

 

But, that is my personal opinion, we are divided at the shop but i've seen a few too many meth kits fail with catastrophic results.

 

Any recommendations on how to deal w/ the cold start in the winter? Does adding a gallon or two of 91 oct help? I could always flash to the 91 map, but would like to stay E85 if possible.

 

Also, have you ever seen catastrphic results with meth injection while a safety system was in place?

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Any recommendations on how to deal w/ the cold start in the winter? Does adding a gallon or two of 91 oct help? I could always flash to the 91 map, but would like to stay E85 if possible.

 

Also, have you ever seen catastrphic results with meth injection while a safety system was in place?

 

Well, we have seen a safety system fail with catastrophic results, that was the snow performance one. They have not been selling the safe injection for a while pending a redesign (as i understand it). That is all i'm willing to say at this point concerning that particular manufacturer.

Adam & Matt

Revolutions Performance

417 E. Vermijo

Colorado Springs, CO 80903

Store | Contact Info | Website

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Well, we have seen a safety system fail with catastrophic results, that was the snow performance one. They have not been selling the safe injection for a while pending a redesign (as i understand it). That is all i'm willing to say at this point concerning that particular manufacturer.

 

What about those cold winter starts? Do cars tuned with E85 fail to start at all when it get too cold? Will the addition of a gallon or two of 91 to the tank help or do you recommend not using E85 in the winter at all?

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You do get a hard start when it gets below 35 degrees. If your vehicle is garage kept then it's not too much of a worry. As for the extra gallon or two when it's cold, if you are heavily modded and precisely tuned then i would not recommend it.

Adam & Matt

Revolutions Performance

417 E. Vermijo

Colorado Springs, CO 80903

Store | Contact Info | Website

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You do get a hard start when it gets below 35 degrees. If your vehicle is garage kept then it's not too much of a worry. As for the extra gallon or two when it's cold, if you are heavily modded and precisely tuned then i would not recommend it.

 

I plan on keeping my E85 tune and adding 2-3 gallons of 91oct in the winter. As long as the fuel trims have the authority to keep stoich (and the operator checks the LTFT's periodically) I see nothing wrong with it.

 

If I see my LTFT's getting dangerously close to the -15% mark, I'll consider increasing my injector scalar a few percent for the winter.

My '05 LGT

My '07 Supercharged Shelby

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Oh - and congrats on the most excellent numbers. :) Harvey is the man.

 

Harvey is the man. A great tuner and a real nice guy. I think he is one of the first to really pioneer E85 in this area. But, I have to give credit where credit is due. Ryan at SuperRupair is the one who did these tunes.

 

EDIT - 1 week after picking the car up. I am really enjoying the car now. The car simply hauls a**. It seems I was never completely satisfied with my mods before, but I am now. I hope I can remain satisfied as the car is a blast to drive.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Ok guys, I am really enjoying the performance of the E85 tune, but the smell is getting to be too much for me. I have had to keep all windows closed and close the vents, but still cannot completely eliminate the odor.

 

I am going to check for exhaust leaks, but even if someone simply opens the door to get out - a huge E85 smell comes pouring in. Crack a window - same thing. Stand around the car at idle - wow!

 

If I cannot find a leak, does anyone know if a high flow cat may help the problem? If so, where would it go and are there any special cat materials designed for e85 as opposed to petro based fuel? What does GM use for cats in their flex fuel cars?

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I don't mind the smell - it's the light headedness that comes with it that I don't like. The e85 smell from my exhaust permiates the air around the car way more than 91 oct. Does it on yours'?

 

I have a cobb catted down pipe. But, I have a feeling these cats are not really designed for e85.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Well, we have seen a safety system fail with catastrophic results, that was the snow performance one. They have not been selling the safe injection for a while pending a redesign (as i understand it). That is all i'm willing to say at this point concerning that particular manufacturer.

 

Maybe it's because snow performance was having a chinese company knock-off the products made by Labonte...

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