ACT LWF - possible problem

New engine in car, but starter won't turn it over fast enough. Turning over by hand with a breaker bar on crank-pulley seems easy. Tried a new starter, but didn't help. Voltage is good, tried a couple of booster packs, tried directly off of starter, actual voltage doesn't seem to be the problem.

He will try a torque wrench on the crank and compare with another car. Should know tomorrow.

Starter turns over motor about 150 rpm, too slow to catch. It sounds like something weird might be going on, but it is hard to tell.

The tech that put it in has done over 100 motor swaps, and recently got his Subaru Master Technician training, so he is no retard.

Here is my question:

I also installed a new ACT LWF, is there any chance the starter is not engaging properly to it? Has anyone ever had problems with an ACT LWF?

I know there was some spacer mentioned before using that flywheel, I have never seen one, and I don't know where it would go, or if it matters, as my PP and clutch is designed to work with a stock 06+ WRX fly (which should have the same dimensions AFAIK).

shouldn't make a difference. as long as the starter engages then its connecting to the FW. does it just keep cranking and not actually start? or you hit the key and nothing happens? you mentioned new engine, did you raise the compression? may be too much for that starter if so. the LGT and WRX have the same starter due to having the same diameter FW and compression. have you checked fuel? or worst case, did the timing belt break after it was put together and now its not turning now?

T

Wow this is a new one.

I'm sure the tech that assembled the short block knew what he was doing. I'm sure he would have noticed if the crank was hard to rotate...that's the only thing I can come up with. The bearings are to tight. The torque wrench on the crank should tell the story.

It keeps cranking but very very slow, compression is stock.

Obviously he could have made a mistake, although he has been doing this for 8+ years. I just want to rule out anything aftermarket that could be a problem, so I am not stuck with the diagnosing bill.

you tried a different starter.... no change.... you checked the voltage, the correct voltage is getting there... what about amps. I'd be curious to see if you are getting the same amp draw to that starter as opposed to one that is working.... reason I'd be concerned there is that if for some reason the amps are lower, then the overall power to the starter is less, thus cranking less. If the amps are correct, voltage is correct, and its connected, then there is something mechanical that is causing resistance on the turning of the engine.

I agree with the above of trying the torque wrench on the crank and see how much force it takes to turn. if its too much force than spec (I dont know what it is) then either compression IS higher, or there is now more friction. speaking of friction, you did prime all the oil so its all lubricated and not metal on metal right?

T

you tried a different starter.... no change.... you checked the voltage, the correct voltage is getting there... what about amps. I'd be curious to see if you are getting the same amp draw to that starter as opposed to one that is working.... reason I'd be concerned there is that if for some reason the amps are lower, then the overall power to the starter is less, thus cranking less. If the amps are correct, voltage is correct, and its connected, then there is something mechanical that is causing resistance on the turning of the engine.

 

I agree with the above of trying the torque wrench on the crank and see how much force it takes to turn. if its too much force than spec (I dont know what it is) then either compression IS higher, or there is now more friction. speaking of friction, you did prime all the oil so its all lubricated and not metal on metal right?

 

T

amps to starter was 104.

Engine should have been assembled according to FSM.

Very sorry to hear about the problems... I can imagine that is quite frustrating at the moment. No flames for my noobness, but is there a chance that this is tune related (i.e. Launch Control or Flat Foot Shifting settings)? I know a couple of folks that had issues by inadvertently setting one or the other too low and their engines would crank but not catch.... ECU reset fixed the problem.

Likely a long shot in your case, but something to check just to make sure it's not the issue.

LBGT - Has this issue been solved? Very curious to find out what this was and how it was resolved.

P.S. Bully Rox! Thanks!

Pulled the valve covers and found that 5 valve buckets were too tight, and one was too loose. I thought that was normal precudure to check that when assembling an engine (maybe someone can confirm).

To me, you would want to check all that stuff when you had a quick valve job to freshen things up, no?

Valve clearance should be checked when an engine is assembled. If it is not catastrophe almost is a certainty.

I even recheck clearance after break in procedure.

I learned the hard way about being lazy on the re-check. Lost a $5k motor to the ehaust valves crashing through the piston becuase I let her cool and did not recheck clearance before jumping back on and pinning it. Sucked pushing her 3 miles through the sand.

The beast that blew.

Valve clearance should be checked when an engine is assembled. If it is not catastrophe almost is a certainty.

 

I even recheck clearance after break in procedure.

 

I learned the hard way about being lazy on the re-check. Lost a $5k motor to the ehaust valves crashing through the piston becuase I let her cool and did not recheck clearance before jumping back on and pinning it. Sucked pushing her 3 miles through the sand.

 

The beast that blew.

That is what I figured. I hope it is all OK, as the engine has not even started yet, just been turned over.

Valves are bent:mad:

Really, the motor turned over at 190 rpm, not quite fast enough to start, it turned over many times as they checked power issues, ground issues, even put in a new starter.

Using a torque wrench the motor seemed to need the same amount of torque as other 2.5 liters in the shop.

Compression test should show bent valves.

Did you get it resolved and started? Checking clearance on these motors is a pain in the arse. But not bad when it was out on a stand.

Yes. Wont seat properly if bent. They would only get bent if they hit the top of the piston during cranking. Not hard enough to break, but bend.

This blows. No matter what I would have this little voice in the back of my head screaming to tear it down and check. I cant believe you paid for a motor rebuild and no one checked valve clearance.

I hope the best for you. If the valves were "loose" instead of "tight" you should be fine.

I ran the act flywheel with my bully clutch. The flywheel face was about .030" out more than stock wrx one. This caused the pressureplate to be always slightly disengaged. Starts fine rotates at 210 rpm cranking.

I'm interested on how loud the 2618 pistons are in that in our weather. Was -30c this am. Diesel did not want to wake up.

As a side note a Subaru tech of 12 years managed to put one piston in backwards in my obxt.....

I thought I had a broken ringland. All were fine, but the oil control rings were seized, and my huge leakdown was due to # 2 being dot too the back....http://tapa.tk/mu/40387883-f09f-8be1.jpg

I'm in the works of getting a 4032 alloy piston made with beafier ringlands and a Dish to maximize quench (Jdm square pocket/ usdm donut hybrid) and should weigh about 279 grams... So if you are interested in building your old block drop me a pm.

Sorry for the hijack. Btw do you need the bucket part numbers and clearance procedure?

Mike

Yes. Wont seat properly if bent. They would only get bent if they hit the top of the piston during cranking. Not hard enough to break, but bend.

 

This blows. No matter what I would have this little voice in the back of my head screaming to tear it down and check. I cant believe you paid for a motor rebuild and no one checked valve clearance.

 

I hope the best for you. If the valves were "loose" instead of "tight" you should be fine.

I know how much this blows (trust me, UPS damaged 1st block, I paid for a 2nd to expedite things, now UPS is denying insurance on 1st block).

I am asking, why would too tight bend the valves? Is a couple of mm going to cause piston to valve contact? Seems to me like they would not close all the way, but not actually hit.

I ran the act flywheel with my bully clutch. The flywheel face was about .030" out more than stock wrx one. This caused the pressureplate to be always slightly disengaged. Starts fine rotates at 210 rpm cranking.

 

I'm interested on how loud the 2618 pistons are in that in our weather. Was -30c this am. Diesel did not want to wake up.

 

As a side note a Subaru tech of 12 years managed to put one piston in backwards in my obxt.....

I thought I had a broken ringland. All were fine, but the oil control rings were seized, and my huge leakdown was due to # 2 being dot too the back....http://tapa.tk/mu/40387883-f09f-8be1.jpg

 

I'm in the works of getting a 4032 alloy piston made with beafier ringlands and a Dish to maximize quench (Jdm square pocket/ usdm donut hybrid) and should weigh about 279 grams... So if you are interested in building your old block drop me a pm.

 

Sorry for the hijack. Btw do you need the bucket part numbers and clearance procedure?

 

 

Mike

I hope flywheel thickness does not become my next problem.

It is cold here, so I will know how loud they are soon enough.

I know how much this blows (trust me, UPS damaged 1st block, I paid for a 2nd to expedite things, now UPS is denying insurance on 1st block).

 

I am asking, why would too tight bend the valves? Is a couple of mm going to cause piston to valve contact? Seems to me like they would not close all the way, but not actually hit.

Maybe I overreacted. 2MM, I don't know. It is an interference motor. Unless there is an alignment problem with the case, I just can't think of anything else.

Something is binding, that is for sure.

Try removing all the spark plugs, disable the fuel pump(fuse) and see if it will turn over. Make sure to have a fire extingusiher near by, just in case. (a lesson learned the hard way)

I know how much this blows (trust me, UPS damaged 1st block, I paid for a 2nd to expedite things, now UPS is denying insurance on 1st block).

 

I am asking, why would too tight bend the valves? Is a couple of mm going to cause piston to valve contact? Seems to me like they would not close all the way, but not actually hit.

2mm should not cause contact. I just dont know how "tight" the valves were?

-30c? FACK! I knew a couple of guys from Edmonton. They used to joke about -30c. I guess it was no joke.

Sounds like this has been an experience all around. I feel for you. I seem to have the same "luck" when it comes to these things.

I read somewhere in the fsm that you can be out a tooth either way.. From measuring b25 heads you have about4-5mm of lift before you would ever have p to v. That's with 0 deck flat tops and no valve reliefs.

I had 2 ej255 eat acl rod bearings on startup.. Bearing delaminated. These were os bearings on us crank. But I have since found 2 more shells delaminated out of the box never made it to the engine.. All race series btw.

And I prelubed using a pump into front oil galley.

Turned over great by hand but turned over slow by starter fired right up good oil pressure but then started to knock

So when ya fire it up listen for rod knock on revving it up to 1500 or so

My 2 cents. Btw keep hounding ups. Aka Use Purolator Stupid . Ups lost the first clutch bully sent out to me

Mike

Mike