accidentally moved my boost controller! help!!

EDIT:

Update: the problem turned out to be the hinge on the wastegate door.

its actually stuck! bound up inside the turbo.

the rod that connects to the actuator's lever seems to have backed out of the turbo housing.

likely cause is the wastegate hitting inside the downpipe (divorced plate) and pushed itself out of alignment.

the non functioning wastegate is why i couldn't adjust boost.

_____________________________________________________

so my car has a manual boost controller.

normally i boost around 17psi in warmer weather.

now that its colder my car is boosting MORE. sometimes as much as 20psi. i don't think thats good for it.

it is hitting 1.4 bar, an then fuel cut sometimes when i accelerate, at around 5500rpm.

i remember it getting up to 18 maybe 19psi last winter, but it wasnt a problem hitting a limiter if i romped on it. since then i've installed an uppipe and had an adjustment done to my tune. so maybe that made it more sensitive this winter? anyways...

i am no turbo guru, but i heard that in winter it (manual boost controller) might need to be turned down.

i went to inspect it before looking up how to do that... i thought the end part was a cap that needed to be taken off to get to an adjustment screw. FAIL! the whole end is the adjustment knob.

so anyways i moved it, and any reference mark that was put on it by the tuner has washed off.

how do i tune my car back to normal?

do i just turn the boost way down, and test drive it, and bring it back up until it hits 17ish?

i have an accessport.

thanks!!!!

i turned it down, until my accessport said 17.7psi on third and fourth gear at WOT.

am i overboosting still?

i dont understand "target boost"

datalog12.csv

so i turned it down a little more and went for another drive...

at full spool in 3rd my AP said i hit 16.9 psi.

so i thought i was good.

so i did another log (see below)

but after i logged it put it in fouth gear and went to WOT and it shot up to 19.2 before i got off the throttle. i dont even think it was fully spooled up.

datalog13.csv

i went to turn it down some more...

and realized it was all the way out. i cant turn it down anymore.

so i took it to log,.. 3rd gear it spooled to 18.4 before i got off the throttle... too high i gave up on the log.

4th gear i spooled up just to see, i backed off at 19.3

why am i hitting such high boost with my boost controller turned all the way down?!??

Thanks for the input. I have a Hallman... it obvious which way is up or down cause it has arrows on the end and a + & -

its definitely down all the way and still overboosting.

i wonder if theres a leak somewhere?

http://www.iagperformance.com/images/products/used/boost_controllers/hallman/image_01_600.jpg

Just hook a line from your Waste gate directly to the comp outlet and see if you make gate boost only, your Hallman may have the spring or ball jammed, remove it and rebuild/clean/lubricate it, also replace your vac lines with fresh while you are at it, they could have a micro split that is letting pressure blow through when stressed preventing psi getting to gate.

FYR - boost cut is usually set a couple of psi above your target, depending on your tune/wastegate % demands, you may well spike from time to time, this is ignored by the ECU IF it is a low enough level and a REASONABLE amount of time lapse.

Colder weather will make more boost due to air density and will create more engine load, with a MBC you have no ECU comps working for you, bear in mind also that giving it a foot full from low RPM will build boost spikes easier, taller gears will also induce overshoot/boost cut if not dialed correctly.

MBC have their place, I have used lots of them, also used and tuned 2 port/3 port and hybrid boost control configs, my last Vehicle I ran a 19.99 mbc as it suited my 'bang for buck' project at the time. Hallman make a good MBC but I have had to rebuild my own previously.

my last Vehicle I ran a 19.99 mbc as it suited my 'bang for buck' project at the time.

There are tons of reasons NOT to get an MBC, and only 2 reasons to get one -

1) Hybrid setup, which from my reading isn't a horrible idea, if not correctly. It's actually supposed to eliminate spikes pretty well since EBCS always has a bit of a spike in it due to the way PID works.

2) Laziness.

I am sure you base your comments of direct experience in setting up your own vehicles in terms of hardware and tuning? as do I.

If not, then with all respect , you can not accurately comment on a subject you clearly know little about.

I'm not going to get into a debate, the OP asked advice, I gave some based of my 'actual' experience over a good few years of working on these vehicles, not paying someone to do it for me.

The Subaru boost control is a great tool from the factory, the ECU is very powerful, this is ample for 95% of end users, however it can be improved on for specific set ups/ power goals., this includes MBCs

Sure the OP does not need to change his controller but he has, its his choice and his car can run well with it, If set up correctly.

Unfortunately, the forums have a lot of mis information based of hear say.

I am sure you base your comments of direct experience in setting up your own vehicles in terms of hardware and tuning? as do I.

If not, then with all respect , you can not accurately comment on a subject you clearly know little about.

 

I'm not going to get into a debate, the OP asked advice, I gave some based of my 'actual' experience over a good few years of working on these vehicles, not paying someone to do it for me.

 

The Subaru boost control is a great tool from the factory, the ECU is very powerful, this is ample for 95% of end users, however it can be improved on for specific set ups/ power goals., this includes MBCs

Sure the OP does not need to change his controller but he has, its his choice and his car can run well with it, If set up correctly.

Unfortunately, the forums have a lot of mis information based of hear say.

Just state facts. I'll throw some out there.

• Hardware wise, the stock BCS can be replaced easily with a 3 port EBCS like I've done. Many options for this are available, with the cheapest being the GM BCS.
   
  
• Tuning the stock or a 3 port BCS well requires more work than just tossing in an MBC and setting all the WGDC values at WOT to 100% and turning a knob.
   
  
• Completely eliminating the BCS disables all the failsafes built into the ECU. If your IAM dips below 1 due to bad gas, you will still be producing full boost. In the OP's case, he hit fuel cut and should've thrown a CEL which on a BCS controlled vehicle would've dropped him to WG boost.
   
  
• Completely eliminating the BCS disables the compensations the ECU allows for. The OP likely would've never had this problem in the first place because the WGDC temperature compensation table would've prevented the problem.
   
  
• Partial Throttle Full Boost (PTFB) is a concern with an MBC.
  

As far as my own experience, I've never messed with an MBC before. Why? Because the BCS works well. The stock BCS worked well when I was dialing in WGDC myself, and the only reason I replaced it with a GM 3 port was for troubleshooting, and to also give me a little more headroom and control, and now I've dialed that in myself nicely too. And it's literally freezing cold out and I haven't overboosted despite my tune having been done during the peak of the summer 100F weather.

You don't have to get into a debate if you don't want to, that's fine. But it doesn't hurt for you to throw some facts out there too.

But don't assume that the person you're talking to doesn't know anything just because he hasn't done everything you have. I don't have to jump out of a plane with no parachute to know it's probably not a good idea.

edit: I also won't care if you decide to own me with your "actual" experience which you make it sound like you have gobs of. Seriously, it doesn't bother me in the slightest. If I'm wrong about something I've stated, correct me. I'll learn from my mistake and move on and I'll be smarter in the future from it.

Here, I'll help you. In the interest of being fair, here are 2 facts in favor of an MBC setup and 1 against.

• MBC allows for better spool/response without the spike seen by a BCS setup that has an aggressive TD Proportional table.
   
  
• MBC is adjustable on the fly. Turn the knob and go. BCS requires a map reload, which is a pain using ECUFlash (need a laptop, shut off car, connect green plugs, etc.). At least the AP has realtime maps that load lickity split though without even shutting off the car.
   
  
• MBC doesn't allow for a boost taper towards red line because if you set it for a certain PSI (16 PSI, for example) it will drive your turbo trying to make that 16 PSI the entire way, which is not productive at redline. You'll essentially be running a flamethrower.
  

Thread he made a few months ago that I participated in that may be relevant:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/why-so-much-lagi-192807.html?t=192807

Oh and for the record regarding MBC:

If your still on the MBC, that is your problem, period. Only time I use them is on huge turbos...30r and up when boost isn't acting correctly and only in combination with the EBCS system in place of the factory pill.

Dude , really I am happy for you and really do not need help from you.

Go and run MBC/2 port/3 port and hybrid on different platforms, tune different turbos/fuel/ set ups , learn the different variables that make up a complete tune, understand it better.

Spend the time and effort and LEARN from experience not what you read and think males sense, spend hours and hours doing it and comment from that real world learning.

Listen to people who have been there and done it, most of all don't get butt hurt over internet forum comments.

I have a 'gob' load of experience, get paid to tune vehicles and have done very well from it, I don't want to pour out post after post to prove something to someone who frankly, plays with their own car and makes posts based of limited experience.

Again, Im happy for you, if you feel good thinking you owned me so be it, I won't loose any sleep and sincerely wish you all the best.

Again MBC have there place as do other methods of boost control, I personally went 3 port preferred, on my meth injected track prep 06 Sti, Hybrid on my 08 STI on E 85 but MBC on my 2003 E85 wagon, each had their pros and cons and each was set up for reliability/drivability and performance.

For tuning purposes I prefer a 3 port for all over DD and to make use of full ECU comps

MBC is easy and can work well for sure

Hybrid I find is generally overkill, if you spend enough time properly tuning the boost curve its not needed.

I could post a shit load of threads I have started with proven power and tuning discussion but why bother? you know it all right ;-)

Last comment from me on here, if you want any ref data or want some useful info to assist you please PM me.

Happy New Year.

oh yeah, this just reminded me.

when i started this thread i meant to write:

please don't derail this into a discussion on why i have a MBC.

My car was tuned by a pro; Ed at EQ. i trust his judgement.

If you want his input on why he uses MBC you can read a post from him by clicking here

Now that its Monday, I'll give him a call but its also new years eve so I dont expect to hear back for a couple days.

Hoping someone here could offer actual advice for my problem, instead of trying to swing a big dick about why their choice of set up is better.

Just hook a line from your Waste gate directly to the comp outlet and see if you make gate boost only, your Hallman may have the spring or ball jammed, remove it and rebuild/clean/lubricate it, also replace your vac lines with fresh while you are at it, they could have a micro split that is letting pressure blow through when stressed preventing psi getting to gate.

thanks! this was the only helpful advice/post yet.

Last few things I'll say:

Kastley85891, I'm not the only one that says the BCS is better. In the link Diavolo dropped, EFI logics holds the same position I do. And the quote I cited in my last post is from Infamous. Both of them tune TONS of cars, and they tune them well. So as much as you want to believe I'm clueless in my position, I'm not.

I'm willing to concede that if you want to get the absolute most of your car and it's not daily driven, then an MBC might get you to that easier and get you slightly better results... but as I pointed out, if you're demanding 18# from a VF40 and using an MBC, it's going to demand that 18# even at redline, which isn't realistic and you'll really be stressing the turbo and losing effieicny, so I still have my doubts about how effective this is.

But for all of the other reasons I listed, the BCS should be maintained on something like 99% of cars... the failsafes are gone, and manual adjustments *must* be made for temperatures.

Diavolo, you are actually a good example of why I strongly, strongly believe the stock BCS should've been retained. Look at the difficulty you've experienced so far, from temperature fluctuations.

Your tuner in that thread says this

The only major drawback of the MBC is that it leaves the customer the power to potentially turn up the boost and cause damage. I've found this not to be an issue as long as the customer is fully educated and understands that if he messes with the MBC, he will likely cause problems. Most people don't want to blow their engines, so they take this advice seriously and don't mess with the MBC after the tune.

But it's a fact (there's no disputing) that boost is produced much more easily in the cold than in the heat. You *have* to mess with the MBC after the tune. There's no way for the ECU to compensate!

I also wonder if you've been knocking, and I wonder if your IAM has been reduced below 1 which still wouldn't throw a CEL. If it has, your MBC prevents your ECU from pulling boost to protect your engine. Keep that in mind.

Anyway, that's the last I'll speak about that. My advice was to go back to a stock BCS. And it was the same advice in your other thread, and numerous other people suggested the same.

But if that's something you're absolutely not willing to do, then do what Kastley85891 suggested and see if there's a leak in the line running to the WG.