For those who have done the brembo swap, did you pedal improve?

Coming from an STI, im not a fan of the mushy LGT brakes, i am trying to decide if swapping on some Bremo's will significantly firm up the the intial pedal or if its more of a function of the LGT master cylinder design.

So those with brembo's did you pedal firm up nicely?

a pad upgrade and fluid flush will give you the pedal feel you are looking for. OEM pads dont have much feel to them.

FWIW stock LGT brakes with a good performance pad will out brake a sti on stock pads with tires being equal

steel braided lines will help too. you can do all this for alot less $$$ then upgrading calipers. its worth trying this before you decide to shell out all the cash for brembos.

I have to agree with whitetiger. A good pad with some SS lines and good fluid will do wonders for brake feel and stopping ability. It is amazing what the braking system can do with some minor improvements. It is also a small chunk of change compared to a Brembo set up.

- Jake

I first did stainless steel lines/good fluid and Hawk HPS pads (thanks to AZP for an awesome install) - I felt some improvement.

I then upgraded to front Brembos (with the upgraded lines/fluid/ and a fresh set of Hawk HPS pads) and I noticed a much bigger improvement in everything.

Bottom line is - you will get a nice improvement with pads/fluid/lines but IMO it will not equal what you were accustomed to in the STI.

SS lines don't make a huge difference by themselves. See my thread:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/new-ss-lines-pads-and-oem-rotors-done-separately-my-98800.html?t=98800&highlight=stainless

Very few people do ONLY the stainless lines. They almost always do the SS lines + fluid flush, or SS + pads, or something like that, and attribute the improvement to the lines.

I did SS lines + stock rotors only. Result? Little to no difference. Save your money, don't bother with SS lines unless your rubber lines are in bad shape. Or you track the car.

SS lines don't make a huge difference by themselves. See my thread:

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/new-ss-lines-pads-and-oem-rotors-done-separately-my-98800.html?t=98800&highlight=stainless

 

Very few people do ONLY the stainless lines. They almost always do the SS lines + fluid flush, or SS + pads, or something like that, and attribute the improvement to the lines.

 

I did SS lines + stock rotors only. Result? Little to no difference. Save your money, don't bother with SS lines unless your rubber lines are in bad shape. Or you track the car.

Im well aware of the SS lines hokus-pokus. Its amazing what a placebo does to ones car. I am avid car guy, this is my 5th subaru(2wrx's and 2 sti's prior), i can tell from the initial pedal travel of mush in the LGT brakes that a pad/line/fluid change still wont make the pedal even reproachable to the sti's firm and communicative pedal. I do realize that from a performance stand point, locking both a well set-up lgt set up down against a set of OEM brembo's should prove the LGT brakes to perform a bit better.

Still doesnt make up for the lengthy take up and poor communication of the LGT brakes.

Regardless, i wanted to be sure the master cylinder wasnt playing to big of a roll in the pedal firmness in the sti.

If you want top brake performance then yes Brembos will give you the better pedal feel and better overall braking. For cost of everything though there are cheaper alternatives. The master cylinder has a little play in the situation with the LGT as it can support Brembos all around and be fine.

-Jake

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Im well aware of the SS lines hokus-pokus. Its amazing what a placebo does to ones car. I am avid car guy, this is my 5th subaru(2wrx's and 2 sti's prior), i can tell from the initial pedal travel of mush in the LGT brakes that a pad/line/fluid change still wont make the pedal even reproachable to the sti's firm and communicative pedal. I do realize that from a performance stand point, locking both a well set-up lgt set up down against a set of OEM brembo's should prove the LGT brakes to perform a bit better.

 

Still doesnt make up for the lengthy take up and poor communication of the LGT brakes.

 

Regardless, i wanted to be sure the master cylinder wasnt playing to big of a roll in the pedal firmness in the sti.

That being said, I think I could definitely appreciate at least a mildly stiffer pedal though. That's why I ordered the GS MC brace. Numerous people have said it's a pretty noticeable improvement in pedal firmness.

Admittedly, the LGT brakes are mushy compared to a lot of other cars... or rather, there is a lot of mushy "slack" at the top of the pedal... it requires a fair amount of pedal travel before engaging. I sort of like that... don't have to worry about throwing me or the passengers into the windshield.

 

That being said, I think I could definitely appreciate at least a mildly stiffer pedal though. That's why I ordered the GS MC brace. Numerous people have said it's a pretty noticeable improvement in pedal firmness.

Well many people also claim a more firm pedal with SS lines, and we all know how much bs that is. Im willing to bet the GS MC brace will only be noticeable under more intense braking situations, and will do nothing to assist in intial pedal take up and engagement.

Also, just because you have a firm pedal doesnt mean your brakes "bite" and throw you and/or your passengers around. Proper brakes engage quickly and smoothly, and provide great modulation and correlate more precisely with "pressure" and "bite". LGT's have slop, slop, slop, and then, alteast with my oem set-up, have a pressure area where they are quite grabby. General feel and modulation are both poor(compared to brembos atleast).

While those 2 metrics may not correlate into anything tangible on the track, they are both real metrics felt by the driver and improve ones driving experience.

100 bucks (or less) buys an STI MC/booster; add a check valve in the vacuum line, and you'll have a brake pedal feel that you are familiar with, and (I'm told) less mush.

Not as simple installation-wise as adding a MC brace, but way less expensive than a BBK...

That is my plan, when I can get to it.

SS lines, pads, better rotors, and fresh fluid made no noticeable difference in pedal feel for me. Brembos front and rear made a huge difference and have brought the braking feel to an enjoyable level. Still room for improvement, but not worth any additional time or $$$ spent at this point for me.

If I were to do it all over again and Brembos weren't in the budget or wheel considerations precluded them, I would opt for the STi master cylinder and booster upgrade in a heartbeat.

Well many people also claim a more firm pedal with SS lines, and we all know how much bs that is. Im willing to bet the GS MC brace will only be noticeable under more intense braking situations, and will do nothing to assist in intial pedal take up and engagement.

Absolutely wrong. The only thing the GS brace seems to do is shorten initial pedal stroke and engagement. The pedal is much more firm and the stroke has been reduced to 40-50% of what it used to be. This is noticeable in the parking lot as well as aggressive driving. The effective stroke is all at the beginning now so it feels more responsive.

Also, just because you have a firm pedal doesnt mean your brakes "bite" and throw you and/or your passengers around. Proper brakes engage quickly and smoothly, and provide great modulation and correlate more precisely with "pressure" and "bite". LGT's have slop, slop, slop, and then, alteast with my oem set-up, have a pressure area where they are quite grabby. General feel and modulation are both poor(compared to brembos atleast).

Absolutely right. While I think the GS bracket is well worth it, it did nothing to increase bite and braking force at all. The brakes are essentially the same just with a much shorter pedal stroke and more firm feel.

I have a full set of sti brembos and stoptech SS lines sitting around that I intend to install within the next few weeks to replace my oem OBXT garbage. I'm expecting this, in addition to the GS brace, to exhibit the exact feel you're looking for.

^Can't wait to hear your results.

Probably too much to ask to do MBC and then booster/MC swap sequentially to get feedback on each incremental step? That would be very helpful to others struggling with their brake upgrade priorities...

Other good street pads besides the HPS? I know we can do better than HPS...

I wouldnt know what else to try or what would be as cost effective as HPS's.

^Can't wait to hear your results.

Probably too much to ask to do MBC and then booster/MC swap sequentially to get feedback on each incremental step? That would be very helpful to others struggling with their brake upgrade priorities...

Im not even sure if the MC brace will work with the sti MC.

It should work.

I'm going to run Stoptech pads in whatever calipers end up going on my car, I think.

Performance friction z-rated: I've got them on the frot of my car and I love them. Very low dust, require very little heat, have great initial bite and I have yet to fade them... Even with back to back runs on Deals Gap.

Im also struggling with alot of pedal slop. I'm thinking it's a combination of a dual-stage brake booster and a small diameter master cylinder. I think mine is 15/16" so Im interested in at least the master swap. the whole time I was on the mountain, I consistently had to double-tap my brake for pressure. On the second stroke, the pads would bite right at the top of the stroke. The car would dive and slow rapidly with minimal increase in pedal force. If I DIDN'T double tap, the brakes would start grabbing much lower, like half stroke.

Idk if it's pad knock back, or my master, or two stage booster or what but Id like to sort it out. And I doubt it's my firewall moving because the slop in the stroke occurs BEFORE I apply braking pressure so it's not pedal force transferring thru the firewal

Well from what i understand to change the master you need to change the booster(apparently other masters dont fit out booster). So you need a 02-07 wrx or sti booster as they are supposedly the same, and a 04-07 sti master cylinder.

And these just bolt on?