bore

r the walls in the ej22 think enough to bore out to a 2.5

why would you want to do this?

for more power, tryin to get as much as i can out of the 22 without puttin a turbo on it. am just tryin to fig out wht works and dony work with this motor. am trying to get up somewhere around 250hp

250hp will not be possible without a lot of work. I have a frankenmotor. Ej251 short block, Ej22 heads with delta 220 cams, EL header, full catless 2.25" exhaust. Probably if I am lucky make 200 horsepower to the crank.

^only way to make usable low-mid rev power and torque with out a turbo kit. If your adventurous remove your heads and port to the valve seats and smooth them a little on both sides and get a good exhaust system. 22e motors choke themselves but they have big valves and a short stroke so you have to coax power out.

yeah 250 is pretty high for this NA motor, I had a little 22t block build brewing that wouldve put out about 250whp but I sold it off before I finished it..

ok thanks for the info i have only work on V8 motors dont know much abt these motors

I am so pissed off right now. I just spend a lot of time writing several paragraphs to educate you and make recommendations, only to accidentally move forward to another page. I hate how this site doesn't save anything that's been typed...

 

******* hell....

 

Anyways... Moving on and keeping it short.

 

-

 

You're wanting to make 190 WHP. To do that reliably without spending too much money isn't going to be easy.

 

Too much work is needed to build up your 22E short block, and your top end is completely useless. Move on from it.

 

-

 

It would be most effective to build up a 255/257 short block with 251 pistons, STi head gaskets, milled (if piston-to-valve clearance checks out) and worked 2.5 heads with aggressive cams and at least 11.0:1 compression. A brand new, built by you, short block would cost $1,800 with an NPR 251 piston/ring kit. You can go used, but you'll have to find a really good used short block (which can be a crap shot) and then swap the pistons out with the NPR kit. The cost of the top end depends on what you find used, how much the head work (PnP, milling, etc) and cams cost, as well as whether or not you go Phase 1 DOHC or Phase 2 SOHC. That brings me to my next point.

 

A tune is a good idea. I have no clue how flexible our ECU's are (10.5:1 compression may be all it can adjust for, idk), but a tune might be the key to extracting the capability of the motors mechanical parts. It might be the difference of 170 WHP vs 190-200 WHP. I have no clue, honestly. Also, our ECU's can not be tuned. You'd need to upgrade to an WRX/FXT/OBXT/LGT/STi turbo ECU as well as needing a wiring harness from one of those cars to be merged with your harness. The cost would be around $1,200 or so unless you get a good deal on the ECU and harness. The merge will probably cost around $700 from iWire.

 

Upgraded ECU = Phase 2 top end

 

Factory ECU = Phase 1 top end

 

Phase 2 top ends will flow a bit better than Phase 1 top ends, but not really that much. I'll tell you exactly if I can find my bench flow sheets. Also, Phase 2 top ends will require you to reduce the cylinder head chamber size more so than you would for a Phase 2 top end in order to reach 11.0:1 compression without using custom pistons. It may not be possible without using custom pistons.

 

As far as exhaust is concerned, you'd need an EL header and cat-less cat-pipe with a full high flow exhaust in order to extract maximum performance from the engine.

 

-

 

The details of what you want, should influence you more than power. I've seen an all-out HC Phase 2 NA motor would put down 235 WHP fully tuned with more torque than a turbo motor could ever hope for under the curve, but do you like the sound (UEL rumble vs EL Honda buzz, as well as loudness and drone)? Do you like the cost? Is an extra 20-40 WHP worth that cost?

 

That's a good idea of what you'd be looking at in a nutshell. If you have any more questions I'd be glad to answer them in detail.

nice write up kenny, hell i might use some of your advise on my build.

Oh..

 

If you're not planning on making too much horsepower you guys can also use a 251 open deck block. 255/257 internals (crank/rods) will fit right into place. Just make sure you use 251 pistons.

 

The overall cost could be much cheaper, especially if you find a full 251 engine with bent valves or something. My buddy is selling one, with bent valves, for $100 plus shipping. I happened to pick up a 255 short block with 60k miles for $300.

 

There are deals out there. It doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg to build an engine.

I think the grand total on my engine build will hit $700 by the time I'm done with it. I'll be on the same track as baddogs build but with less undercar shwag. I had to buy an extra head 5 new hlas and radiator. There is a great deal in albuquerque on a 251 long block with 125k for 250 that I was interested, in that's a dope ass deal. Not that anyone cares.

You're wanting to make 190 WHP. To do that reliably without spending too much money isn't going to be easy.

 

Correct. And it will be one HELL of an endeavor.

 

Too much work is needed to build up your 22E short block, and your top end is completely useless. Move on from it.

 

Hey now. I'm betting I can get 170bhp from 97-99 25D heads & 222 block w/tuning. Top end would be pretty snazzy w/20K cams.

 

It would be most effective to build up a 255/257 short block with 251 pistons, STi head gaskets, milled (if piston-to-valve clearance checks out) and worked 2.5 heads with aggressive cams and at least 11.0:1 compression. A brand new, built by you, short block would cost $1,800 with an NPR 251 piston/ring kit. You can go used, but you'll have to find a really good used short block (which can be a crap shot) and then swap the pistons out with the NPR kit. The cost of the top end depends on what you find used, how much the head work (PnP, milling, etc) and cams cost, as well as whether or not you go Phase 1 DOHC or Phase 2 SOHC. That brings me to my next point.

 

251 pistons are good but the most compression would come from flat-topped pistons similar to those used in the 222 or those high-compression types used in the 1st 25D variant. The rest of what you have said would be a great compliment around that type of engine.

 

A tune is a good idea. I have no clue how flexible our ECU's are (10.5:1 compression may be all it can adjust for, idk), but a tune might be the key to extracting the capability of the motors mechanical parts. It might be the difference of 170 WHP vs 190-200 WHP. I have no clue, honestly. Also, our ECU's can not be tuned. You'd need to upgrade to an WRX/FXT/OBXT/LGT/STi turbo ECU as well as needing a wiring harness from one of those cars to be merged with your harness. The cost would be around $1,200 or so unless you get a good deal on the ECU and harness. The merge will probably cost around $700 from iWire.

 

Anything exceeding 11:1 freaks out our ECUs, apparently. A tune would be perfect.

 

Upgraded ECU = Phase 2 top end

 

Factory ECU = Phase 1 top end

 

Phase 2 top ends will flow a bit better than Phase 1 top ends, but not really that much. I'll tell you exactly if I can find my bench flow sheets. Also, Phase 2 top ends will require you to reduce the cylinder head chamber size more so than you would for a Phase 2 top end in order to reach 11.0:1 compression without using custom pistons. It may not be possible without using custom pistons.

 

As far as exhaust is concerned, you'd need an EL header and cat-less cat-pipe with a full high flow exhaust in order to extract maximum performance from the engine.

 

Phase 2 DOHC 20X heads (Dual AVCS), 251 intake, & 257 bottom end w/251 or custom flat-top pistons would probably be the ideal combo for high compression, run by a standalone or re-mapped Phase 2 ECU. With a good exhaust route/pipe diameter, you could remain using UELs as they are good for low-end TQ in N/A format. You can use ELs if you're after that very last pinch of power.

 

The details of what you want, should influence you more than power. I've seen an all-out HC Phase 2 NA motor would put down 235 WHP fully tuned with more torque than a turbo motor could ever hope for under the curve, but do you like the sound (UEL rumble vs EL Honda buzz, as well as loudness and drone)? Do you like the cost? Is an extra 20-40 WHP worth that cost?

 

MUST have been a SOHC engine... Of course, you can get an EJ22 to produce similar power to that but you WON'T be using SOHC heads, if you're smart, & it WON'T be N/A. You WON'T be using a big turbocharger to achieve that kind of power curve either.

Hey now. I'm betting I can get 170bhp from 97-99 25D heads & 222 block w/tuning. Top end would be pretty snazzy w/20K cams.

 

I agree with that as long as you build it to rev fairly high with the right cams!

 

251 pistons are good but the most compression would come from flat-topped pistons similar to those used in the 222 or those high-compression types used in the 1st 25D variant.

 

The largest difference between 251 and '96 25D pistons is the compression height, not so much the reliefs. The real difference in the way the two motors would make compression is also, and mostly, due to the rod length difference. Piston deck height is 0.35 mm shorter in the 251 than it is in the 25D. So, the '96 25D with it's "251 like" piston surface, could make more compression without using such a thin head gasket.

 

The only problem with the '96 25D is that is's a Phase 1 short block and Idk if I'd trust it to hold up entirely... The Phase 2 short block is stronger.

 

Anything exceeding 11:1 freaks out our ECUs, apparently. A tune would be perfect.

 

This make perfect sense, especially since we saw all of the issues Baddog's 12.5:1 compression motor had, with all of it's pre-detonation and whatnot.

 

And yes, I have checked those numbers countless times, I am 100% sure that his motor was making that much compression.

 

 

I wish he had thrown race gas into it......

 

Phase 2 DOHC 20X heads (Dual AVCS), 251 intake, & 257 bottom end w/251 or custom flat-top pistons would probably be the ideal combo for high compression, run by a standalone or re-mapped Phase 2 ECU. With a good exhaust route/pipe diameter, you could remain using UELs as they are good for low-end TQ in N/A format. You can use ELs if you're after that very last pinch of power.

 

I could not agree more.

 

MUST have been a SOHC engine... Of course, you can get an EJ22 to produce similar power to that but you WON'T be using SOHC heads, if you're smart, & it WON'T be N/A. You WON'T be using a big turbocharger to achieve that kind of power curve either.

 

Yes. The bulid was based off of a 251 SOHC long block using custom forged pistons. The key to the top end, though, was the use of the '05 IM ('05 intake manifolds flow much better than anything previous). With AVCS the damn motor would have made even more power.

 

I would not use any sort of 2.2L motor, or anything less than 2.5L, to make big NA power numbers. Now, if you don't mind having to rev the piss out of it and not gaining much low end torque over the build, then a 2.2 engine works. You would definitely need custom pistons to make the compression though.

 

I would especially not use any of the 2.2 SOHC heads for a build... They LITERALLY flow HALF as much as a DOHC 2.5 head at 0.300" lift.

You can also get high compression with some eg33 pistons in a 22e, they share the same bore but have a high dome on them. Just with those pistons in the block will yield about the same or a touch higher 11.4:1 as early 25d with 22e heads. I know the 22e heads flow isn't too great but a good machine shop can open the ports and blend the cast and force them to breathe. There ALOT of meat underneath the valves and its quite easy to get them smoothed out. I would opt for that type of build because of the short 22e stroke is peppy and with the cams and polish the computer will trick itself to rev higher because its sensing higher airflow < not proven and only mentioned.

 

FYI, that build has put down 190 at the crank with no ems. So about 160-170 to the wheels with torque all the way through to 6200rpm. What I don't like about the early 22e is the hla valve train, I would get the solid lifter type out of the later phase 1 22's.

 

^That was on a chassis with good a suspension setup though. A lot torque loss comes from mechanical movement and flex. So if your serious about a high(ish) power motor build you may think about beefing the suspension up.

http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s660/pleaidestar/egebadev_zpsli9trlrx.jpg

You can also get high compression with some eg33 pistons in a 22e, they share the same bore but have a high dome on them. Just with those pistons in the block will yield about the same or a touch higher 11.4:1 as early 25d with 22e heads. I know the 22e heads flow isn't too great but a good machine shop can open the ports and blend the cast and force them to breathe. There ALOT of meat underneath the valves and its quite easy to get them smoothed out. I would opt for that type of build because of the short 22e stroke is peppy and with the cams and polish the computer will trick itself to rev higher because its sensing higher airflow < not proven and only mentioned.

 

If you're thinking that way, you might as well just use late 25D heads & have the machine shop grind those out. Also, 20K valves, valve springs, & cams would be ideal with a block setup like that. Max compression with great all around power, especially past the midrange.

 

^That was on a chassis with good a suspension setup though. A lot torque loss comes from mechanical movement and flex. So if your serious about a high(ish) power motor build you may think about beefing the suspension up.

 

Bingo. Remember though, you do not want the suspension TOO stiff. In between soft & hard would be ideal. You'd still need to absorb shock yet resist the TQ produced by the engine so the wheels can get more power.

I'll update this post with my responses later!

Your going to keep us waiting for another rant? I can hear your gears turning all the way from N.c.

A lot torque loss comes from mechanical movement and flex. So if your serious about a high(ish) power motor build you may think about beefing the suspension up.

 

Bingo. Remember though, you do not want the suspension TOO stiff. In between soft & hard would be ideal. You'd still need to absorb shock yet resist the TQ produced by the engine so the wheels can get more power.

 

Quick note.. 190 CHP = roughly 145-150 WHP or so. For 160-170 you're looking at 210-225 CHP. Based off of dyno runs and Subaru's stock ratings, power at the wheels falls at roughly 75% of that at the crank. And remember, this is on a Mustang dyno. If you want Dynojet numbers, they are roughly 12.5% higher. So, yes, according to that math, 165-170 WHP = roughly 190 CHP.

 

Also, our stock chassis/suspension design (even with soft spring rates), even at higher torque numbers (180-210 across the power band of a 235 WHP motor), would lose an almost negligible amount of power over a car with a stiffer suspension. Our real problem comes from the open differentials...

 

------

 

Moving on...

 

You can also get high compression with some eg33 pistons in a 22e, they share the same bore but have a high dome on them. Just with those pistons in the block will yield about the same or a touch higher 11.4:1 as early 25d with 22e heads. I know the 22e heads flow isn't too great but a good machine shop can open the ports and blend the cast and force them to breathe. There ALOT of meat underneath the valves and its quite easy to get them smoothed out. I would opt for that type of build because of the short 22e stroke is peppy and with the cams and polish the computer will trick itself to rev higher because its sensing higher airflow < not proven and only mentioned.

 

FYI, that build has put down 190 at the crank with no ems. So about 160-170 to the wheels with torque all the way through to 6200rpm. What I don't like about the early 22e is the hla valve train, I would get the solid lifter type out of the later phase 1 22's.

 

If you're thinking that way, you might as well just use late 25D heads & have the machine shop grind those out. Also, 20K valves, valve springs, & cams would be ideal with a block setup like that. Max compression with great all around power, especially past the midrange.

 

Another quick note before I go on a tangent:

 

There is no way to trick the ECU to revving higher unless you run a stand alone power wire to the fuel pump so the ECU can't cut the power at the rev limiter (fuel cut). I don't suggest doing this because you'll burn out the pump very quickly.

 

And yes, HLA lifters are VERY meh in our Subies!!

 

Okay.... here it goes....

 

------

 

I stand by the fact that any/every 2.2L SOHC cylinder head is a useless POS. It has no place on any Subaru build, even if they can create high compression. They cannot, and will not ever flow enough, especially on an NA build. If you want more compression, do it the correct way and get some custom pistons. Yes, I know a lot of us, especially me, operate on small budgets for our engines, but some things just can't be overlooked when trying to make high horsepower on a small NA engine and it needing to be reliable.

 

Flow rates for the 2.2 heads:

 

Peak cfm @ 0.300" lift (stock lift is just a hair over that) is roughly 115 on the intake side, and 81/83 (dog leg ports) on the exhaust side WITH the exhaust side ported to 1 5/8." Another thing to note, based on what I have been told, there actually isn't as much extra meat on the head that can be removed for porting as you might think there is; at least not enough to make the head flow as much as you'd want.

 

--

 

Why, even for high compression purposes, anyone would use a head that flows close to 120-125 cfm / 90-95 cfm (Intake/Exhaust) LESS than a SOHC 2.5 cylinder head beats me.. DOHC 2.5 cylinder heads flow about 10/15 cfm less than the 2.5 SOHC, on average, but that difference is almost negligible.

 

We're talking 235-240 cfm / 170-175 cfm (I/E) for the stock SOHC head.

 

SOHC heads can be made to flow roughly 8.5% - 10.5% over stock on the intake side, and 14% - 17% over stock on the exhaust side. I'd imagine, that even if we could port 2.2 heads to flow 25% - 35% better than stock, they'd still flow less than stock DOHC/SOHC 2.5 heads. They are also bottle-necked by the smaller I/E valves... I'd say that would hamper flow capability quite a bit if I'm honest.

 

--

 

This brings me to my next point, in this is just general build advice for Subie heads...

 

With stock or ported heads, the heads will not gain any power/flow with any more than a 0.350" lift. You will not get any more flow out of a larger cam. It will only RUIN your partial throttle / low RPM power the higher it is!!!!

 

The duration is what matters!! That's where your power band is!!!!

 

Now, sometimes, to get duration on a regrind, you'll have a cam with higher lift. But, just know, that on any cam with more than 0.350" lift, pay attention mostly to the duration. I haven't worked on the cams yet, so I have no idea how long of a duration is possible without really going over 0.350" of lift by too much. I will find this out eventually.

 

 

Ohhhhhhh I found my stock cam specs sheet!!!

 

SOHC 2.5 cams - 0.376"/0.314" I/E @ duration of 181/182 I/E

 

DOHC 2.5 cams - 0.325"/0.286" I/E @ duration of 205/210 I/E

 

http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s660/pleaidestar/egebadev_zpsli9trlrx.jpg

 

That's a great picture. The 251 pistons is the right and the 25D piston is to the left. I do believe there is only 1-2 cc difference between the two pistons volume (negative volume). Either way though, the 25D piston will make more in it's respective motor because of the piston-deck clearance. But, the Phase 1 2.5 motor is garbage and shouldn't be used for any high compression / high power build....

 

------

 

I think that about covers everything discussed so far.

 

/rant

Your going to keep us waiting for another rant? I can hear your gears turning all the way from N.c.

 

lol dude, you have no idea. My gears never stop turning. Sometimes I just shift up/down a couple of gears!!

 

I believe my rant was worth the wait!!!

There is a great deal in albuquerque on a 251 long block with 125k for 250 that I was interested, in that's a dope ass deal. Not that anyone cares.

 

That's a damn good deal!! I'd buy it. Someone should!!

Great way to shit on everything that I just said, fortunately for alot of us you just have a lot of opinions...ill agree the 2.2 isn't the greatest motor to waste your time on.

 

Really, do you think everyone sits there and figure out how much torque loss you get from a vehicle with 190 HP 160-165.

 

Simplicity,big valves and short stroke are why I chose the 22e for my autox motor (this time), I like to fix and root for the underdog at times..lol. eventually ill have a bigger motor in there. But autox is a relatively small race Sino don't need big power. Low end torque pulling all the way through is what I want.

 

I mentioned it simply because thats exactly what it is; a bit of HP's going by the wayside on spongy suspension. Simply.

 

I cut about 6 grams of aluminum out of each intake port and 4 grams out of each exhaust port, I could have taken a buttload more out of the exhaust but I want the detonation to stick somewhere. Have you ever ported and polished a set of these heads? Mine are the fourth set of subaru heads I have opened up and so far they arent too shabby..even on the lowly 22e. I did weigh the heads before and after..I am a pretty good machinist/fabricator.

 

...oh and that picture is of an eg33 piston on the left and ej22e on the right. Lol. The difference is pretty major in the two, there is no aspect ratio from that pic but that dome looks like a Honda b16 typeR piston.

 

Great deal on that motor..even with shipping its cheaper than ordering one I bet.

Also, our stock chassis/suspension design (even with soft spring rates), even at higher torque numbers (180-210 across the power band of a 235 WHP motor), would lose an almost negligible amount of power over a car with a stiffer suspension. Our real problem comes from the open differentials...

 

Dyno runs are fairly different than road runs. On a dyno, there is no up & down movement caused by anything other than the car's TQ, so you get the max power, because there is max grip. I am speaking of absorbing the various shocks/bumps & such so that power isn't lost during those instances.

 

And yes, HLA lifters are VERY meh in our Subies!!

 

Hey, don't bash the HLA heads. They're STILL one of the best sets for turbocharging & smooth operation. I drove a 96 GT & the engine felt like it wasn't even there until I pressed the pedal. Smooth idle & equally smooth revs. They're not the best for high compression, but as a stock engine, the 1st 25D variant does a damn good job at what it does.

 

I stand by the fact that any/every 2.2L SOHC cylinder head is a useless POS. It has no place on any Subaru build, even if they can create high compression. They cannot, and will not ever flow enough, especially on an NA build. If you want more compression, do it the correct way and get some custom pistons. Yes, I know a lot of us, especially me, operate on small budgets for our engines, but some things just can't be overlooked when trying to make high horsepower on a small NA engine and it needing to be reliable.

 

Flow rates for the 2.2 heads:

 

Peak cfm @ 0.300" lift (stock lift is just a hair over that) is roughly 115 on the intake side, and 81/83 (dog leg ports) on the exhaust side WITH the exhaust side ported to 1 5/8." Another thing to note, based on what I have been told, there actually isn't as much extra meat on the head that can be removed for porting as you might think there is; at least not enough to make the head flow as much as you'd want.

 

Why, even for high compression purposes, anyone would use a head that flows close to 120-125 cfm / 90-95 cfm (Intake/Exhaust) LESS than a SOHC 2.5 cylinder head beats me.. DOHC 2.5 cylinder heads flow about 10/15 cfm less than the 2.5 SOHC, on average, but that difference is almost negligible.

 

We're talking 235-240 cfm / 170-175 cfm (I/E) for the stock SOHC head.

 

SOHC heads can be made to flow roughly 8.5% - 10.5% over stock on the intake side, and 14% - 17% over stock on the exhaust side. I'd imagine, that even if we could port 2.2 heads to flow 25% - 35% better than stock, they'd still flow less than stock DOHC/SOHC 2.5 heads. They are also bottle-necked by the smaller I/E valves... I'd say that would hamper flow capability quite a bit if I'm honest.

 

Keep in mind that Phase 1 EJ22 heads HAVE to be used with Phase 1 electronics. Most people cannot get around this, so they have no choice other than aftermarket cams, valve springs, pistons, etc. Changing cams is not a bad idea either. Gain more on the top & more on the bottom?

 

The choice is the builder's and what he might need the engine for. Rock climbers aren't going to want an engine screaming at 9000rpm when it produces no muscle at 1500-3000rpm, where power is needed for them the most.

 

Track racers aren't going to want a cam that starts doing it's thing at 1500rpm & stop at 4000rpm, especially if the course is long. Even if the EJ22 heads aren't as great as the Phase 2 EJ25 SOHC heads, they can still provide an advantage over stock if they are ground out to do what they are intended for.

 

This brings me to my next point, in this is just general build advice for Subie heads...

 

With stock or ported heads, the heads will not gain any power/flow with any more than a 0.350" lift. You will not get any more flow out of a larger cam. It will only RUIN your partial throttle / low RPM power the higher it is!!!!

 

The duration is what matters!! That's where your power band is!!!!

 

Now, sometimes, to get duration on a regrind, you'll have a cam with higher lift. But, just know, that on any cam with more than 0.350" lift, pay attention mostly to the duration. I haven't worked on the cams yet, so I have no idea how long of a duration is possible without really going over 0.350" of lift by too much. I will find this out eventually.

 

As mentioned before, you want top or bottom end power? And this is interesting, because this is where the DOHC setup really comes into play. You have 2 cams to work with, each dedicated to intake & exhaust. No matter how well the SOHC heads breathe, they will ALWAYS be inferior to any DOHC head for this one reason alone, among too many others I can mention.

 

Larger cams over the 25D profile WILL work. It's only a matter of removing the rev limiter & then tuning the engine after that. Have you seen the 20K cam specs? They're a pair of cams you can actually use in an N/A build & still come out on top because they allow for such intake at high revolutions. It's even more than a matter of removing the rev limiter when you install them but then you get goodies like sodium-filled exhaust valves & stiffened valve springs to install as well. The 25D heads can be a very exotic pair with work.

 

Let's also speak of mixing & matching cams. So many cam profiles available for the 97-99 25D heads & no one has STILL thought to do this! The same goes for the 96 25D heads! People are so quick to regrind their cams & not embark on hybrid cam profiles. It's amazing how much experimentation has yet to be done with the Phase 1 DOHC heads.

 

But, the Phase 1 2.5 motor is garbage and shouldn't be used for any high compression / high power build....

 

I don't believe this to a certain degree. I believe that 97-98 heads on a 96 block would make for a pretty damn good EJ25D.

 

Great way to shit on everything that I just said, fortunately for alot of us you just have a lot of opinions...ill agree the 2.2 isn't the greatest motor to waste your time on.

 

This is amazingly untrue & also one of the main reasons why I am such en EJ22 enthusiast. I know there is far more potential untapped in these engines but because most people flock to the EJ25, these engines are given almost no recognition, even now when they are proven to be a much stronger engine, they still get a lot less respect.

 

Really, do you think everyone sits there and figure out how much torque loss you get from a vehicle with 190 HP 160-165.

 

I would/do. Absolutely. To me, if an engine is generating power, I'd like to be able to know just how much power is used. Just because the engine doesn't produce high power, doesn't mean that it is meaningless to work with.

 

Simplicity,big valves and short stroke are why I chose the 22e for my autox motor (this time), I like to fix and root for the underdog at times..lol. eventually ill have a bigger motor in there. But autox is a relatively small race Sino don't need big power. Low end torque pulling all the way through is what I want.

 

But you also want a healthy midrange for the straights. The DOHC EJ22s that I have built were great all-around engines. enough low-end to keep you from being bored yet more than enough midrange to put a smile on your face every single time you get past 3000rpm. The EJ22E in stock form is really more akin to a truck engine in comparison, even with ground-open intake ports & aftermarket cams. The EJ22E wins on the simplicity factor though (By miles.)

 

I cut about 6 grams of aluminum out of each intake port and 4 grams out of each exhaust port, I could have taken a buttload more out of the exhaust but I want the detonation to stick somewhere. Have you ever ported and polished a set of these heads? Mine are the fourth set of subaru heads I have opened up and so far they arent too shabby..even on the lowly 22e. I did weigh the heads before and after..I am a pretty good machinist/fabricator.

 

I have a set of 25D heads right now that I've been waiting to grind open but I may not be using them again, so the decision is up in the air about that.

 

...oh and that picture is of an eg33 piston on the left and ej22e on the right. Lol. The difference is pretty major in the two, there is no aspect ratio from that pic but that dome looks like a Honda b16 typeR piston.

 

The Honda B16 Type R engine is a high compression one, so I am not surprised about the EG33's piston design. After all, I think that engine had something like a 10.5:1 compression ratio. EG33 pistons in an EJ22 would be pretty awesome & make for a fun little engine with DOHC heads.

Typically I have gotten great technical info from you and this is some more great info sprinkled with opinion < which doesn't bother me either. These motors aren't that good either, I agree. But I have always built my cars from my perspective and needs. If I were road racing my car I would definitely not use this motor because it does snuff itself out around 4500 rpm stock..my needs for now are 0-60 with enough torque to pull through the gears and handle itself. Open diffs are another subject and if LSD's were in these cars the 160hp would be a ton more efficient at putting the power in the right place at the right time. In about 6 months when/if I'm done with this motor ill destroy the heads and do a cut away on the ports and you will see how beefy the casts are between the valve openings, granted that you can only take so much from beneath the valve seats without having to have some custom valves made for you. Even that would be a challenge because of the angles and shape of the bowls. But where the guides are I estimate over .125 between the guides and ports on each side, but this is just a guess until I can cut the head in half without the guides.