Legacy GT 'round Laguna Seca - 10 Car Track Comparison

http://www.drivingsports.com/site/2010/04/extra-2011-subaru-sti-revealed-10-car-track-comparo/

Every year, members of the Western Auto Journalists press group make the trek to Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca for some hot-lap time with the latest roundup of sporty cars.

 

 

As much as I would like to oblige our YouTube fans by powersliding a Mercedes C63 through turn 2 – tip of the hat to Lewis Hamilton --, this is a press day, and there are some rules.

 

 

First, not all journalists are hoons and not all the cars are Dodge Viper caliber, so we have to be considerate of the slower cars and drivers on the track.

 

 

Unfortunately, that rules out late braking, corner passing and smoky donuts coming out of Turn 11… although Ryan did one of those, anyhow. (blink, blink)

 

 

Second, manufacturers support this annual event so long as we don’t stuff their cars. Yes, we’re looking at you, the guys from Consumer Reports that offed the E63 AMG on Turn 5 (Clip 00015 at 6:00), please tell us you at least got it on video?

 

 

In light of these rules, Ryan and I jumped behind the wheel of 18 sporty -- and not-so sporty -- cars to lay down some brisk laps and rank the best of the bunch. For this episode, we’ve whittled it down to the top 10 sorted by lap times.

 

 

Note that for cars that had a sport automatic or suspension modes I turned them on. Otherwise, I left all traction control and ABS systems enabled for the sake of this comparison.

 

 

In 10th place is the 2010 MINI Clubman S. It’s simply the best handling toaster ever. Final time: 2 minutes and 5.128 seconds.

9th overall was a car with the worst factory gauges ever. The 2010 Camaro RS. I don’t care if they’re retro, they’re unreadable.

Final time: 2 minutes and 2.646 seconds.

 

 

8th place was the only oil burner we were driving that day. The 2010 BMW 335d. Not much top speed, but really quite competent on the course.

Final time: 2 minutes and 2.250 seconds.

 

 

7th overall was the 2010 Mazdaspeed3. This little turbo-hatch ate the corners up like a champ. Fun, tossable, and pretty inexpensive, to boot.

It crossed the line in 2 minutes and 2.143 seconds.

 

 

6th place was actually a surprise, the 2010 Subaru Legacy GT. The last generation Legacy suffered from sluggish turn-in and overly-soft suspension. The new GT is a big improvement, knocking out a time of 2 minutes and zero point 687 seconds.

 

 

Landing in 5th is a car that you may not have expected, the Dodge Challenger SRT8. Sure, it has 425 horses, it also weighs 4100 lbs.

Still, if you think all American muscle is only fast on the straights, this car proves that stereotype wrong, our first car under 2 minutes.

Final time: 1 minute and 58.625 seconds.

 

 

4th overall is the polar opposite of the Challenger, the 2010 Audi S4. The V8 has been tossed out and replaced with a 3-liter, direct-injected, supercharged V6.

 

 

That, plus some additional chassis tweaking produces a car that is much more fun to drive than the previous S4 edition.

Even with nearly 100 fewer horses, it beats the Challenger with a 1 minute and 58 second lap time.

 

 

Finally, the top three.

Third place was the 2011 Mercedes Benz C63 AMG. We figure this is the best car you can buy in its near-60 thousand price range.

Ryan felt it gave him an almost sixth sense and, with a few more laps he could have easily shaved several seconds off of his lap time.

Still, third with a 1 minute 55.668 second lap is pretty good, especially considering…

 

 

Second place. The Jaguar XFR, with 60 more horses than the C63. This is one badass Jag. But, where Ryan felt he could easily make a lot more time with the Benz,

 

 

he didn’t think the XFR was in the same class. It was a sledgehammer that boldly knocked out a 1 minute and 54.5 second lap.

 

 

Our number one fastest time of the day may come as no surprise. It’s the only car in our field of production grocery-getters that is, in fact, a track-day special.

 

 

The Dodge Viper Coupe. With 600 horsepower from the naturally-aspirated V10, it was a monster to be respected. In spite of Ryan doing what was, essentially, a pussy-footed lap, it still owned all with a 1 minute 53 second best time.

 

 

Keep in mind; the Viper is a car that even pro drivers say will bite them in the ass if given the chance.

 

 

We’re just glad that when Ryan did spin it, it wasn’t into a wall. Nobody wants to be “that guy.”

 

 

How did your favorite car fare in this lineup? Think I wasn’t aggressive enough with it on the track? Let us know in the comments below.

Unfortunately, we did have some holes in this linup. BMW didn’t bring any M-class sedans, only their X5 and X6Ms. We wanted to focus on cars, not rigs. And you’ll also note the Mitsubishi Evo and Subaru STI were absent in these result.

 

 

The EVO simply because we ran out of time and, though we did drive the STI SE, our one hot lap was impeded by traffic, making the result moot.

I can say that the last time I drove a stock STI at Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca, which was at the 2008 launch, I put down a 1:57, which would place it just behind the C63 AMG.

 

 

If you want to see the complete chart of results, including all 18 cars, even the Scion xD and Lexus IS 250C, that will be available exclusively on our app for iPhone, iPod Touch and soon for the Apple iPad. Thanks for watching!

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure how valid this review is given the large delta between the lap times of this review and other reviewers...

Lap Times — 2009 Mazdaspeed 3 vs. 2010 Mazdaspeed 3:

 

2009: 1:51.33

2010: 1:49.99

vs.

7th overall was the 2010 Mazdaspeed3. This little turbo-hatch ate the corners up like a champ. Fun, tossable, and pretty inexpensive, to boot.

It crossed the line in 2 minutes and 2.143 seconds.

2007 Mazdaspeed3 GT - 1:50.37

2007 Mini Cooper S JC Works GP - 1:51.73

2008 Mini Cooper S - 1:51.98

2009 Mazda MX-5 - 1:52.18

2006 Honda Civic Si - 1:54.99

Hi all, I was the driver. Thanks for posting. We were also driving on the track under the noses of the manufacturer reps, as well as with other traffic on the course. The top speed tests you usually see are with a single car and multiple attempts. In this situation, as we outline prior to the results, we couldn't do "balls out" laps... which would have certainly netted me an extra 5 seconds per car (I'm consistent, but no were near as fast as the pro driver Motor Trend used). These times represent a safe, brisk lap, with all traction aids still enabled, where the car in no way out of control. Itself and interesting pov.

Ryan Douthit

Driving Sports TV

Interesting this is your first post. I think it's relevant to compare lap times within the article to the participating cars and not between articles. Drivers, testing methods, and conditions are too big of variables.

That article itself compares cars to other testing occaisions, and by your criteria there, their comparisons between current and previous performance would be voided, as well...

Either you can compare results to other tests, or not. Pick one and stick to it.

Interesting that the previous Legacy GT they refer to is not the bilstein equipped Spec.B... I just put them on my car, and both turn-in and damping were HUGELY improved, with no other mods than JDM Bilsteins and STI-branded springs. OE or Accessory parts directly from Subaru, not some other company.

So just the fact that the valving and spring rates for the new car are improved is hardly a shocker, considering they couldn't have been much worse without being a huge red flag on the previous Legacy generation.

The question really at that point becomes, if the base Legacy GT suspension was so poor at turn in, body-roll, and damping rates, and Subaru of Japan equipped their Legacy builds differently, with better parts... Why didn't the 2006-2009 Legacys without the bilstein suspension STAY so badly configured, once they knew how marginally the 2005 Legacy GT suspension in the US model was set up.

That should have been fixed long ago, and I have a hard time giving kudos for something that simply is no longer neglected, and should have been done correctly in the first place.

Hi all, I was the driver. Thanks for posting. We were also driving on the track under the noses of the manufacturer reps, as well as with other traffic on the course. The top speed tests you usually see are with a single car and multiple attempts. In this situation, as we outline prior to the results, we couldn't do "balls out" laps... which would have certainly netted me an extra 5 seconds per car (I'm consistent, but no were near as fast as the pro driver Motor Trend used). These times represent a safe, brisk lap, with all traction aids still enabled, where the car in no way out of control. Itself and interesting pov.

 

Ryan Douthit

Driving Sports TV

Thanks for the input. Always interesting to read first hand accounts.

That article itself compares cars to other testing occaisions, and by your criteria there, their comparisons between current and previous performance would be voided, as well...

 

Either you can compare results to other tests, or not. Pick one and stick to it.

 

Interesting that the previous Legacy GT they refer to is not the bilstein equipped Spec.B... I just put them on my car, and both turn-in and damping were HUGELY improved, with no other mods than JDM Bilsteins and STI-branded springs. OE or Accessory parts directly from Subaru, not some other company.

 

So just the fact that the valving and spring rates for the new car are improved is hardly a shocker, considering they couldn't have been much worse without being a huge red flag on the previous Legacy generation.

 

The question really at that point becomes, if the base Legacy GT suspension was so poor at turn in, body-roll, and damping rates, and Subaru of Japan equipped their Legacy builds differently, with better parts... Why didn't the 2006-2009 Legacys without the bilstein suspension STAY so badly configured, once they knew how marginally the 2005 Legacy GT suspension in the US model was set up.

 

That should have been fixed long ago, and I have a hard time giving kudos for something that simply is no longer neglected, and should have been done correctly in the first place.

It looks to me that all 10 of those cars were driven on the same day. Am I missing something?

It looks to me that all 10 of those cars were driven on the same day. Am I missing something?

Did they test both the new and old Legacy models at the same time?

They compared the two, in the segment that you set into bold type. Here, I'll re-post it...

6th place was actually a surprise, the 2010 Subaru Legacy GT. The last generation Legacy suffered from sluggish turn-in and overly-soft suspension. The new GT is a big improvement, knocking out a time of 2 minutes and zero point 687 seconds.

But then you say that tests not done on the same day shouldn't be compared. Again:

I think it's relevant to compare lap times within the article to the participating cars and not between articles. Drivers, testing methods, and conditions are too big of variables.

It didn't sound to me like they tested both the new and old Legacys in that test, but rather were comparing to the old legacy, tested on a different day. You said that was out of bounds.

Are you keeping up?

Just holding you to what you say.

You've been busting my chops for a long time. Turnabout is fair play.

Hate Hate Hate!

IWSS + any thread = Epic Fail

Sweet comprehension skills.

Back on topic... It's good to see the LGT getting some positive press. Now if only people would flock to it the way they do the 3 series.