Tips for checking out first potential Subie - 05 GT Wagon 5MT

Hey everybody!

 

I'm new to this awesome site, but have been doing a bit of reading on it over the last several weeks trying to educate myself before purchasing. We were looking for N/A legacy wagons (5MT) at first, but then I figured that both the NA and turbo have known issues, why not go for the fun one?

 

My GF and I are looking for a low mileage, well-maintained GT Wagon 5MT in our area and it has certainly been a challenge finding them at all. Most seem to be in the Midwest and Northeast, but alas, I found one a couple of hours east of me in an area that we happen to be visiting next week for a couple of days anyway, so we're certainly going to check it out.

 

These things are so hard to find!!!

 

Details about the wagon:

 

-2005 GT 5MT

-69k miles

-appears to be 1 owner from around MD/DC area - not confirmed yet - trying to get Carfax sent to me

-Dark Blue - don't know the official name of this color

-Paint/body looks great w/ no reported accidents

-Dealer doesn't seem to have any maintenance records when I asked about them

-Asking $13.6

 

My plan is to go and check the car out if it's still for sale next week when we get there. I've seen a local shop, TurboTime, mentioned a couple of times on this forum for repairs/service/mods that is close to the dealership selling the Legacy. So, I'll inspect everything on the car myself first, take a test drive over to TurboTime (already contacted) to get an inspection from a 3rd party. See what they have to say. Go back to the dealer and if everything checks out ok, try to get the car for around 12.5-13. The money is less of an issue than finding a solid, well-maintained car soon. We have been with only 1 car for 6 months now, finally have the finances to get another and sorely need a 2nd car to alleviate some stressful situations, and have something dependable for our family to travel in.

 

At the same time, I'm not attached to this car, so we are fully prepared to walk away if something major is amiss, or something minor and the dealer isn't willing to negotiate. We will already be in the area so there's no real time lost in going to check the car out and it not being the right car.

 

My question is...what specifically can I look for to make a more educated decision or just to know more what I'm getting into later on down the road. What questions can I ask the independent shop (Subie specialists) to get more from the inspection?

 

I suppose it's time to start reading about the banjo bolt filter (think that's what it is...) and the best weight/type of oil to use.

 

 

Thanks for any advice and for the great forum!

 

PS- some pics attached....does the steering wheel look a little off/funny to anyone? It appears to be slightly detached at 2 points along the wheel??? or is that normal?

The color is Regal Blue Pearl. The wear on the steering wheel is definitely not normal. The badging on the hatch is off, maybe replaced after an accident (stock placement: http://0.tqn.com/d/cars/1/0/o/d/ag_07legacygt_rear.jpg)? Engine bay looks stock except for the mass quantities of Armor-All applied and the missing engine cover (semi-important, seals the hood scoop to the intercooler).

 

One thing I missed on mine, was an aftermarket up pipe. Not necessarily a bad thing, but could indicate that it's been tuned before. I would take a look. If you can, get the subie shop to pull the downpipe and check for turbo shaft play, this will give you a good idea of the turbo's condition.

 

It's not a limited model - no sunroof, leather, etc. Saves a little weight if you don't care about that stuff. Might help in negotiations too.

I will be following this post also. Shopping for a used car is scary

 

make sure to check Oil leaks around the valve cover & turbo lines

I thought that badging looked a bit funny, but I couldn't place it till you mentioned it. The Carfax should hopefully indicate what happened there. Could easily be a minor accident and someone not paying attention when re-installing the badges.

 

The steering wheel concerns me. Why would it look like that? It almost looks like that upper part is from a different steering wheel and doesn't quite fit, but it's hard to tell from these photos...

 

Do you/anyone have a link to a completely stock 05 engine bay w/ engine cover so I can see what you mean there?

 

I don't want to rule this one out due to small issues as there are so few of these things that come up for sale, but I don't want to force it either if it's not the right car.

 

Thanks for any help!

Get a compression test or leakdown test.

 

Check for noises from transmission. I bought a car with issues LOL. It's never failed me, but it had 75k miles when I bought it and I finally realized (103k LOL) the center differential transfer drive bearings are what makes the odd transmission noise (they should be quiet aside from gear noise - they will get noticeably louder if bad). This is a DIY fix for $130 or so in bearings and shop press + bearing puller or $800 at a shop.

 

Sounds like this (mine is light throttle) :

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha4LA4K35ho]Subaru STi Transmission and Center Differential Noise - YouTube[/ame]

 

IF the turbo has been replaced, verify that the banjo bolt filter has been checked (optimally replaced) - it is located on the passenger side head hard oil line under the turbo (shares the oil feed).

 

Ownership issues: expect to replace OEM turbo around 100k miles for preventative maintenance if there is shaft play or oil in intercooler - go stage 3 . Clutch around 100k as well - replace with a single mass 06+ wrx flywheel, clutch kit, TSK3 bearing sleeve kit for good measure ~1100-1200 in parts. Timing belt is a must-do at 105k $800+ at shop, $340 in parts.

 

Expect the front driveshaft boot to tear/fail every once in a while due to the turbo downpipe. No biggie - either buy a boot kit and fix it or pay $80 for a reman at AutoZone/Advance/O'Reilly

 

If you notice any of these issues, you do have time to fix them.

I'd have to dig for a completely stock bay, but mine is pretty close:

 

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r16/turkeylord/2005%20Legacy%20GT/IMG_6094.jpg

Ha, I was looking at that very car earlier today, great color and a manual!

 

I think the big things to check for are the turbo, clutch/tranny, and a compression test. It sounds like you have your bases covered by taking it to an independent shop for assessment. As for the steering wheel, it looks like that upper perforated section has started to come off at the edges or may have come loose and can be rotated (if so, perhaps a change to negotiate the price down a bit).

 

Here's a closer shot:

http://cdnedge.vinsolutions.com/AP/2515-2-10267017-69961999-0-1433/69961999.jpg

 

This is what it is supposed to look like:

http://www.cstatic-images.com/supersized/DMI/7734/213354X.10.jpg

 

Good luck!

Subaru_Nation555,

 

Thanks for the reply. Make sense about the steering wheel, I can see now how it looks like the threads have come undone a bit. That would be a good negotiating point to drop the price for.

 

Also, you mean you were looking at this car online or in person? I would assume online due to your location...

 

Ok, I'm a bit new to this...if the car is running well (idles well, accelerates well, cruises well) then is there a point to spending $250 and 2-3 hours on a compression / leak down test at the independent shop? I think that price and time estimate is for both tests. Is there any reason to do just one of them and not the other or is both really necessary.

 

I guess what I'm getting at is that say the compression is right where it needs to be in all cylinders...misfiring could happen at any point after that and not really be able to be prevented or aware of before hand? What else is the comp test really going to tell me besides the #s if the car is already running well?

 

THANKS!

 

Dealer hasn't gotten back to my email yesterday requesting Carfax and some other questions...so we'll see how this goes.

Just a note - people do upgrade their steering wheels to D-shaped or specially covered wheels from time to time and the stockers pop up on the classifieds here. Might be something to watch for.

What's it like to replace a steering wheel w/ an airbag in it? Sounds like a pain to me, but it could be a simple swap?

It is a simple swap. I believe there is a how to on this forum already. BAC5.2 has done it I believe.

 

You'd be surprised at low compression numbers. Some of these cars have run smooth with a bad cylinder. One thing you could do is log (tuning thread will help you) and see if the dynamic /ignition advance multiplier is 1 and look at knock correction values. These could indicate potential problems.

 

This is all worst case stuff. These cars are still very durable

Yeah, just online. I'm looking at any and all manual wagons since there aren't that many in my area.

 

At the very least have the shop do the standard once-over inspection. Sure, issues could arise at any time but the compression/leak down test may reveal something imminent. If it's already getting a visual inspection, you may as well get everything looked at. For me it would be worth the peace of mind.

^ http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/redlinegoods-modified-steering-wheel-185525.html?t=185525&highlight=steering+wheel+install

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/damd-steering-wheel-install-guide-183313.html?t=183313&highlight=damd+install

I wouldn't pay anywhere near that asking price. Given the cosmetic issues and other "clues" I would aim to pay about $10-11k

Yeah, the more I think about this one and the more the dealer isn't giving me the info that I want, the less I want to even deal with it.

 

The asking price is a bit high. I think if the car is still available when I'm in the area then I'll check it out, but it isn't really the color/option combo we're looking for and the mentioned cosmetic stuff isn't really turning me on for the asking price.

 

Thanks everyone for the advice. The search continues...What I really need to do is take a vacation somewhere that a forum member has one a nice one for sale and drive it home! Anybody??

I'd pass. Yes the 5MT's (in excellent condition) are rare, but if you're looking for a solid example and willing to consider $13k, don't settle for less. IMO, better to buy good condition & meet your expectations than pay less and get just that...

Yeah, that's how I'm feeling as well. I called earlier today on a semi-local 07 outback xt 5spd, silver on black, 84k for $13.5 (private seller), but I can't really bring myself to drive down and look at when I know that I want a Legacy and would just want to lower the Outback as soon as possible. I'd be settling.

 

Too bad these things are so few and far between. My GF has said to me a couple of times now "well, I'm not the one making this search so difficult...I'd drive an outback" but I just can't get past the higher ride height and two tone body cladding. Eehh.

 

The search continues. Will update the thread after Tuesday when I test drive the Regal Pearl Blue one in the OP if it's still available.

 

I just feel like it's not worth that price given the cosmetic stuff, but the miles are as low as any others I've seen for sale in the country. If they are willing to negotiate then we might have a deal, but the ad said "ONLINE DEAL" or something along those lines and sometimes they won't budge much from those...We'll see!

Turbo Time? Are you in NC?

 

RPG is a beautiful color.

 

Service and oil replacement records are good if there's a filter going to that turbo.

 

Unless I'm totally off my rocker, it's good to have that stock plastic cover over the engine to properly seal the TMIC airlfow.

 

I'm in the buying mode myself. Don't hesitate to be nosy.

If you can get a deal on it I think it would still be worth it. Mine was a bit of a "rescue" as well, but I got >10% off their asking price + a new clutch installed. The rest I've been working on as I go, bringing it up to speed on maintenance, etc. It can be rewarding giving it some love and bringing it back from the brink of neglect.

I didn't go and check the Blue wagon out. I asked for some very standard information multiple times over the phone and email (Carfax, service history from their garage, etc) and got no response. "What can I do to get you to take this car home TODAY!?" kind of place that wouldn't talk real with me, so I didn't even bother.

 

I pointed out the cosmetic issues and they refused to acknowledge that anything could possibly be wrong with their car and that their "internet price" was as low as they could go or they'd be losing money....

 

Could I have gotten it down a bit if I actually went to check the car out? Probably, but I didn't even feel like it was worth the hassle and my free time to deal with folks like that...

 

I've got a lead on a wagon for sale by a forum member, it's just might be bit of an adventure to get it!

Sounds like a smart move!

i hope this help even though its in Illinois

 

http://www.pursuitauto.com/inventory.aspx?_vstatus=3,4,5&_makef=subaru

 

great guys and awesome subie collection!! its worth the drive

Yeah, I came across a couple of their cars on Autotrader a while back, but didn't check out the website till now.

 

They've got an amazingly clean looking black 05 GT Wagon 5MT w/ 69k on it. They're asking $15,900 though! Not that it's not worth near that, but our budget is $15k max (including travel expenses and potential repairs) so that might be out. Chicago is also about 15 hrs from me. That's pushing it. That'd be a 2 day journey minimum which I suppose is possible, but not really preferred.

 

Do you have direct experience with Pursuit Auto?

One thing you should realize is these cars are rare. So if you want to get it, waiting for one that is both cheap and is in excellent condition might prove fruitless. I would rather pay extra for a car that is in better condition.

 

Not forcing your hand, just saying. I paid pretty much price of new when I got mine 2005 in 2007 slightly used.

Yeah, I came across a couple of their cars on Autotrader a while back, but didn't check out the website till now.

 

They've got an amazingly clean looking black 05 GT Wagon 5MT w/ 69k on it. They're asking $15,900 though! Not that it's not worth near that, but our budget is $15k max (including travel expenses and potential repairs) so that might be out. Chicago is also about 15 hrs from me. That's pushing it. That'd be a 2 day journey minimum which I suppose is possible, but not really preferred.

 

Do you have direct experience with Pursuit Auto?

I can tell you that for me (a person who may just end up getting a second LGT, and a 5MT wagon at that), that a 5MT in SWP or OBP 4th gen wagon under 75K is a gem worth paying a slight premium for! Even if it meant traveling through several states to get it.