Test drove a Subaru 2.5GT Ltd. today

I test drove a S40 T5 AWD and the Legacy. Legacy 2.5GT Exterior- It's nothing new- I've seen all the pictures here and it looks good. The only glaring problem I had were the frameless doors- at the point where the window made contact with the rubber molding, it looked extremely cheap, and ill-fitting. Seeing that, I could see water getting into it. I want a red car and I'm not a fan of the Subaru red, the Volvo's red looks good. Interior- It's well built and I think the quality is a bit better than the Volvo- but not as interesting as the Volvo S40. It's a bit plain, but still very good-looking. Again, no surprises since I've been on these forums. The seats are OK, I think the S40s are better, but again, it wasn't such a big issue that I had tears welling up after the test drive. The shifter gate felt like it was a much higher quality than the S40- it felt like an Acura or Lexus gated shifter. The steering wheel is very nice. Handling- It's quite good- in mid-turn on some backroad corner, I was surprised by how good it was. I really didn't have a chance to give the S40 a good run through, so I can't really compare the two. But I can say that both are far better than my Accord. Ride- Not as smooth as a 530i, but it felt like it was trying to acheive that feeling. And I felt like I was sitting on the Legacy, with the S40 I felt like I was sitting in the car. The driving position felt like I was really high. Engine- This is the jewel of the car. Good God, that boost is like a drug and this wipes out the S40s excuse for an engine. If you want power, get this. Period. The power delivery isn't linear, but when the turbo comes on, whoo-wheee! I kept on the accelerator so I could feel that boost, wow, that's all I got to say. I think it's up there with a 530i. Brakes- They suck. And I mean suck hard. If you could bottle up the Legacy's braking performance and put it into a vacuum cleaner, you could destroy Hoover overnight and make millions in the process. I hope it was just this particular car, but they were horrible. I felt like I was going to rear end the car in front of me and stop 3 ft. past the stop sign every single time I got on the brakes. I think it really affected the way the car handled- not confidence inspiring when you have all this power and no way to stop it. The 530i I drove to the dealer has good brakes, when I jumped into the S40 from that, I didn't notice the Volvo's brakes. But I could make out a clear difference in the Legacy's brakes. Overall, I don't know which car to get now. I like the Volvo for the design, the safety features, the brakes, the handling seems fairly good, and the power is decent, from what I could tell, it felt similiar to my Accord V6 (as it should since both weigh about the same and have about the same hp), but with better low-end torque. The two big pluses is that it has xenon lights and VDC as an option. I'm not crazy about the size, it's pretty small and I'd be delirious to think anybody could sit behind me after I adjusted the seat, and the power is so-so. Oh, and mpg should be better than the Legacy. The Legacy- Power, power, power. The handling is very good (minus the brakes), and you get loads of kit for the price (it really is a bargain, I don't see how anybody could say it's overpriced, even for a Subaru), it's a good looking car, although not as interesting as the Volvo. I hate the brakes and I don't like the fact I have to get a jacked up outback to get VDC. It's also cheaper to maintain than the Volvo. The dealer network is also more extensive than Volvo's. It will be a close call- but I think I'm leaning toward the Volvo. But damn, that Legacy engine is something else...

Then buy the Volvo, drive it, and love it. It's all good. Kevin

Interesting comment about the brakes. I was thinking the opposite--that the brakes were very strong. Now I didn't get a chance to kill the brakes, but comparing it to my dad's two+ ton '95 Mercedes S320, I have a sense of what a good brakes should feel like. I don't know how performance brakes should be, but I felt that the stopping power was more than adequate on this car. I know the tires also have something to do with the Legacy's terrible braking distances, though. Hopefully you'll find something you like about either car and go with it. Both cars have lots of potential. I don't know if you've seen many SEMA pictures, but there were a few nice looking S40s in there.

Tough call. Both are really nice. If you don't need the power, then I'm sure the S40 would be nice too. Both are in the same boat I guess. - Mike

Brakes suck, Must be that car. Mine are awesome. My GT has 8400miles. Brakes are the best I've even felt in a Subby. Get the subby, you don't want people thinking your driving a soccer moms car. (Volvo)

Actually your comments are interesting. I have read a lot of reviews on the S40, and most of them complain about the uncomfortable seats. The dashboard design is also a bit weird to me. I mean, the outlook of S40 is very aggressive, but the interior is design is so calm and minimal. Not saying that design is not good, but it just does not match the outlook of S40. And I have never heard any owners complain about the brakes too; they complain on the cheap tires tho. The frameless windows actually works pretty good. The Mini and BMs have the same design of it too. At least, that design is pretty good at isolating wind noise. Anyways, make your own choice... (btw, I still think the S40 looks like my A4 alot...and the A4 looks better than the S40, to me)

Interesting comments on the power. The S40 is rated at 236 ft-lbs @1500 and weighs less than the GT, so I would have expected them to be pretty close in usable everyday power. The C&D review had the volvo quicker at 5-60 and a higher trap speed in the 1/4. If you have the cash (an extra 10k), you could step up to the S60R for the extra power. Or wait for the 2006 A4 which will have a 255 hp V6 with 6 speed and some of the S4 suspension bits. For the money I think the GT is tops.

If this is your first drive in a Subaru, then you probably need to adjust to the brake pedal feel. I bet you were not pushing enough. The first part of travel on a Subaru brake pedal is a lot of mush and then the bite starts. A lot of people make the same comment as you, especially coming from a Honda in which the brakes bite right away. After driving Subarus for years, my wife got an Acura TSX. For the first couple weeks we were practically bonking our noses on the steering wheel when braking because the pedal feel is so different. I am with the other guys who think the Legacy GT brakes are fine. And if you upgrade the tires, braking gets even better. Don't worry about the frameless windows -- that is a non issue, and lots of other cars have them too. Never had a problem with the Subaru windows. Craig

Maybe it was the tires then? Those pesky RE92s? As for the braking, do you have to apply a lot of pressure to get them working or does a simple tap do the job? I'll be test driving again before I buy anyways to make a final decision. And I'll be going on the hwy the next time around- that could completely change things- there was way too much traffic to get onto the hwy. And if the brakes are better... Barring the bad brake experience, it's a tough pick for me.

I have posted numerous times about how great the Volvo R cars are, with the exception of terrible turning radius. so this is not a Suby fan dumping on Volvo, BUT, the S40 interior is so, so ugly. My son has a special edition, 2004 V40(wagon) with sport(harsh) suspension and cosmetic add-ons that are very attarctive. Interior has great seats, quality leather surfaces, piano black wood trim and all around super quality feel, but the new 2005, S40 interior is so, so ugly. The passenger side dash is abusive to the eye and the door panels are square box designs that are not ergonomic. This is not just my old man opinion, but the opinion of my 16, 18, and 24 year old sons. Your comments about LegGT brakes seem to be out of character with my experience and that of many others. Not sure how you had such a bad experience. I really do not see the Volvo S40 and Leg/GT as apples to apples cars for many reasons. Both really good car choices for different reasons.

[quote name='c_hunter']... The first part of travel on a Subaru brake pedal is a lot of mush and then the bite starts ... Craig[/QUOTE] Except in the STi. Great brakes, solid from the first millimeter.

If you want good brakes, head on to the nearest Porsche dealership. Them 911s have some mean anchors. In contrast, I was a bit disappointed with the S40's interior. Except for the funky flat panel centre console which makes it stands out from pretty much any other car's centre console. Other than that, the steering wheel is nice. The gauges were so-so. In fact it's Japanese cousin the Mazda3 seemed to have a nicer interior in terms of sleekness. I find the S40 (apart from the centre console of course) interior left me wanting. Perhaps I like dark interiors. Hence the Legacy fits my preference more. The S40 is a nice car by itself. However I find that the competitors (A4, 325i, G35, Is300, TSX and Legacy) in that price range still have something over it. Not sure what. The total package just isn't there.... Anyways that's my opinion.

i totally agree with the "sitting on" the LGT. the initial couple of drives makes you feel like you're sitting very high. you will get used to it. i haven't ever been in an S40, but i've smoked quite a few of them in my WRX. good looking cars, but i'm VERY happy i went with the Legacy.

Your bad brake experience is very rare. Most people that have riden it and all car magazines say the brakes are good and experience no fade whatsoever. If the test-drive car has a few miles, the brakes probably need to be broken in. Try to get a test-drive car with more than 20 miles or something. Maybe then you can really feel the brakes? Mojo

The frameless windows are not a drawback. Subaru has made them for a long time and there haven't been any leaking issues. Did you look at the rubber closely? There's actually a second channel within the rubber that makes it more water and wind-tight. The window frames on my Grand Marquis sealed tighter than a bank vault yet had more wind noise than the Legacy. What good is VDC on an AWD car? You're gonna have to drive [i]really[/i] crazy to have any control issues. The "waterfall" dash in the Volvo is what turned me off to it. I always tinker with the audio and that's just impossible to put anything in. The full carputer install in my LGT starts this week. The S40 does nothing for me. I'd love the S70 but didn't have that kind of cash, so instead I've got mod money to put into my Legacy. Boost is already at 17 psi, data logger says everything is happy, and the up pipe goes in first thing Sunday :D

I agree with the "sitting on" comment as I also feel like I sit a bit too high. However, I came to the LGT from a line of sports cars and the LGT's brake feel is as good, if not better than most....this is including a corvette and a Z28 Camaro.

I'm more used to getting the brakes to work immediately. Oh well... can I wish for a Legacy STi then? I'm sure the frameless windows work, but they just look poorly built upon my first impression. And I didn't notice a cheap "clunk" when I closed the door, so I don't know what the car mags were saying. Is there anyway to reduce the height of seat?

I agree with the brakes they are a big weak point on the car. The tires don't help the performance either.

Dear thread, Those damned RE92s are the product of all that is evil. I'm sure I'll be satisified with new tires/pads/lines&fluid. Sincerely, Teh DM

I would watch the reliability of the S40. Goto [url]http://www.swedespeed.com[/url] and see for yourself.

Brakes suck, huh? I don't know which car you were driving, but the Legacy's brakes are some of the best stock brakes I have ever felt. The tires have a little to do with the overall longer stopping distance...that can be easily fixed. My GT brakes like a champ.

[quote name='05LegacyGT330Ci']I agree with the brakes they are a big weak point on the car. The tires don't help the performance either.[/QUOTE] That's an interesting comment considering the all of the responses have been in favor of the brakes on the Legacy. What don't you like about the brakes? Is it because "the first part of travel on a Subaru brake pedal is a lot of mush and then the bite starts"? Or is it something else you don't like about them?

[quote name='il collaudatore']I test drove a S40 T5 AWD and the Legacy. Legacy 2.5GT Exterior- It's nothing new- I've seen all the pictures here and it looks good. The only glaring problem I had were the frameless doors- at the point where the window made contact with the rubber molding, it looked extremely cheap, and ill-fitting. Seeing that, I could see water getting into it. I want a red car and I'm not a fan of the Subaru red, the Volvo's red looks good. Interior- It's well built and I think the quality is a bit better than the Volvo- but not as interesting as the Volvo S40. It's a bit plain, but still very good-looking. Again, no surprises since I've been on these forums. The seats are OK, I think the S40s are better, but again, it wasn't such a big issue that I had tears welling up after the test drive. The shifter gate felt like it was a much higher quality than the S40- it felt like an Acura or Lexus gated shifter. The steering wheel is very nice. Handling- It's quite good- in mid-turn on some backroad corner, I was surprised by how good it was. I really didn't have a chance to give the S40 a good run through, so I can't really compare the two. But I can say that both are far better than my Accord. Ride- Not as smooth as a 530i, but it felt like it was trying to acheive that feeling. And I felt like I was sitting on the Legacy, with the S40 I felt like I was sitting in the car. The driving position felt like I was really high. Engine- This is the jewel of the car. Good God, that boost is like a drug and this wipes out the S40s excuse for an engine. If you want power, get this. Period. The power delivery isn't linear, but when the turbo comes on, whoo-wheee! I kept on the accelerator so I could feel that boost, wow, that's all I got to say. I think it's up there with a 530i. Brakes- They suck. And I mean suck hard. If you could bottle up the Legacy's braking performance and put it into a vacuum cleaner, you could destroy Hoover overnight and make millions in the process. I hope it was just this particular car, but they were horrible. I felt like I was going to rear end the car in front of me and stop 3 ft. past the stop sign every single time I got on the brakes. I think it really affected the way the car handled- not confidence inspiring when you have all this power and no way to stop it. The 530i I drove to the dealer has good brakes, when I jumped into the S40 from that, I didn't notice the Volvo's brakes. But I could make out a clear difference in the Legacy's brakes. Overall, I don't know which car to get now. I like the Volvo for the design, the safety features, the brakes, the handling seems fairly good, and the power is decent, from what I could tell, it felt similiar to my Accord V6 (as it should since both weigh about the same and have about the same hp), but with better low-end torque. The two big pluses is that it has xenon lights and VDC as an option. I'm not crazy about the size, it's pretty small and I'd be delirious to think anybody could sit behind me after I adjusted the seat, and the power is so-so. Oh, and mpg should be better than the Legacy. The Legacy- Power, power, power. The handling is very good (minus the brakes), and you get loads of kit for the price (it really is a bargain, I don't see how anybody could say it's overpriced, even for a Subaru), it's a good looking car, although not as interesting as the Volvo. I hate the brakes and I don't like the fact I have to get a jacked up outback to get VDC. It's also cheaper to maintain than the Volvo. The dealer network is also more extensive than Volvo's. It will be a close call- but I think I'm leaning toward the Volvo. But damn, that Legacy engine is something else...[/QUOTE] you know, i was in the same dilemma when i was looking for a new car. my dad was trying to talk me into getting a '04 S40 T5 AWD, since the dealer by us had slashed the price significantly to clear the '04's out. the interior bored me, though it did look like it had some degree of quality to it. it just looked and felt plain as i sat in it. the S40 did have what my LGT didnt - a moonroof. the S40 rocks an inline 5, same displacement engine as the LGT, however puts out less HP then the GT. torque does kick in at a lower rpm (1800) than the GT does (3600). since i fell in love with the GT's Sportshift 5EAT, i was hoping that the S40 would have something similiar to it. alas, the one that we looked at only had an automatic. i had read reviews that one of the biggest complaints about the auto gear box on the 40 was that the turbo lag was brutal - and from my observations they were right. the exterior of the S40 compared to the GT was a boat. the rims looked bland, compared to the GT's. i think what it boiled down to was that in my eyes, the GT had a better balance of 'luxury' and sportiness than the S40 did.

The 05 S40s now have a tiptronic style auto now. Turbo lag? Didn't really notice it since I was stuck in traffic and couldn't really find a place to drive it. I'll have to keep an eye out for that though. The Subaru dealer wanted me to buy right there and then if he could give me the "right price"... I think I can get a better deal on the Subaru. Anyways I do want to test drive both again, this time on the hwy when I go back to buy. And I'll be keeping an eye out for a broken-in demo 2.5GT and will be putting more pressure on the brake pedal to see how it works. Even though I am leaning toward the Volvo, it is a very close call. I like both cars.

If you want strong brakes, get the 04 G35; they come with Brembos, which can do 60~0@110. And, the 04 G35 are pretty cheap now. Anyways, since you have really different experience from most of us here, I think you should go for S40 instead, because the S40 seems fit your need more. Anyway, reliability and resale value is your major concern. Good luck :D btw, if you are really going to get a S40, please give us a long review, so that we can have a better comparison with the GT. Thanks.