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2005 LGT compared to nimble cars...(like S2000, Mini Cooper S)


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Hi!

 

I thought I was sold on the LGT, but as it turns out, it looked good only on paper. I test drove a 2005 LGT sedan yesterday in auto. It had 80k miles on it. The car had a lot of pep as expected, torque that I'm not used to from the S2000. However, everything else was mushy. Steering was loose, it felt like PS was too strong. Car wandered a lot, suspension did not feel tight. The seats squeaked or something else was squeaking in the car; I've had cars with 100+K miles and never heard those sounds before. Brakes were shot, but that's easy to fix.

 

I just sold my S2000, and now only drive my wife's '08 Mini Cooper S. Perhaps it's because both of these cars are so connected to the road and they're MT, but the ride qualities did not even compare to the LGT. I wanted to like this car a lot due to the AWD system, but it was hard after driving that car yesterday. I can't go back to convertible due to the neighborhood I'm in. It's much easier to tolorate broken side windows than ripped convertible tops...and in my neighborhood, it's a matter of when not if we'll get broken into again.

 

So I have questions: Do all LGT's feel "mushy" or was it just a product of trying an older example that did me in? I'll go back and search in S2Ki and some MINI forums, but what do you guys suggest that has AWD but is much more connected to the road and puts driving satisfaction first instead of whatever the LGT is trying to do (safety, perhaps?)?

 

Thanks for the help.

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I came from a MINI to my LGT and I'm surprised at how well the LGT handles. Granted, it's not the on-rails dartiness of the MINI but i handles quite well. Add in the comfort and quiet of the Subie and I know which one I like more. My car is an 08 with 19xxx and it feels fine to me. Check a newer WRX, STi, or an Evo if you want the connected, true driver's car feeling.
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An STI.

 

How many miles did your S2000 have on it?

 

I traded an 05 S2K for my LGT.B last spring (I needed a back seat), and I have to say I like this car better -- no it's not as nimble and I do miss the handling, but the low-end torque and more planted road feel (due to the combination of softer suspension, AWD, and weight) make it nicer to drive, particularly on road trips. And it's possible to hear the stereo.

 

Comparing an LGT and an S2K is yet another apples-and-oranges exercise. HPH

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Thanks for the quick responses. My S2000 had 41k miles on it...it was 8 years old, though.

 

I realize it is an apples/oranges comparison, but perhaps I had psyched myself up reading up on the LGT on this forum.

 

I think I'll go look at an STI, and try a newer LGT or LGT spec b. I drove an '04 STI a couple of years ago, but at that time I was just impressed with the torque and didn't think about anything else since I wasn't buying it.

 

Perhaps the struts were already done for in the car I drove yesterday, and perhaps there may have been other things that have gone wrong in the 80k miles...

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Legacy GT

 

Wheelbase=105

Length=185

Width=68

Weight=3428

 

S2000

 

Wheelbase=94.5

Length=162.7

Width=69

Weight=2864

 

So the Legacy has a 10" longer wheel base, 23" longer, and 564 lbs more and you are wondering why the S2000 is more nimble then the Legacy? You have to compare apples to apples. The STI is still bigger then the S2000 but it's a little closer. Your closest apples to apples would be a BMW Z3 roadster. I mean you can't expect to go from a gocart, then drive another go cart in a mini and then go to a mid sized sedan and go why doesn't the sedan handle like a gocart? I am used to go carts.

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+1 on the spec B and sti

 

also may want to consider the audi a3 3.2T, tightly packaged car that can shovel it, but it does have a fairly high curb weight for it's size so it probably won't be as nimble as the mini, but give it a try you may like it.

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Yes my only recent comparison can be cars I owned. I have had multiple rental cars in the past couple of years and remember liking the outback as well so that was why I was so confused yesterday.

 

I guess I sort of did answer my question about the age of the car affecti g the ride but I appreciate the confirmation from you guys.

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Personally I think that the Subaru Legacy does very well compared to the competition of similar sized vehicles. It handles as if it is smaller than it really is and makes a lot of other vehicles in the same size feel dull and boring. Especially when you come to those roads with a lot of tight curves and gravel.

 

And if the suspension hasn't been touched at all in 80k miles then it's really time for it to get a new set of shocks and some fresh bushings. It will result in a completely different car.

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Try a spec.B its a bit stiffer... There is also a guy on here (CT) selling at 05 with less miles and full aftermarket suspension. he was a suabru tech and did a top knotch job on all the work thats been done to his car. If you are looking for better handling then there is plenty of aftermarket options for you.

 

also like other people said 80k miles on stock suspension (and those stock RE-92 all season tires really dont show the handling potential the car has

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I'm a huge, huge S2000 fan. I fell in love with the 1995 Honda SSM concept car, and was nuts about the S2K when it actually came out. I was a mod for the S2000 forum on an old Honda/Acura club in the late '90s, and then was an original mod on http://www.S2Ki.com. But, always a fan, never an owner.

 

Honestly, I agree with the apples-to-oranges comments. It's very hard to compare these cars, being in two completely different classes. Of course you can always comment on power delivery, but it's all speculative with the weight and chassis differences.

 

If I had the choice, I'd own an S2000 and a cheap sedan as a second car. But since I only have a two-stall garage (one of which needs to house my wife's Outback), the GT is perfect for me. Good power, a nice interior, good space and good looks. It's one of the most underrated all-'rounder cars on the road, if you ask me.

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my roomate had an s2000 and had plenty of opportunities to drive it. i was actually choosing between the S and the legacy. in the end i already have a miata and i wanted to try out a turbo awd. never looked back.

 

my advice is find a legacy in your area that is properly set up. stock struts are decent operating at 100% but i'd gather the car you drove was not.

 

where are u from?

car for sale. PM me!
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Struts, LCA Bushings, Swaybars, Tires.

 

The car will handle much better than new for ~$1,400 (figuring $150/tire) in parts, some of which need replacing anyways no doubt.

 

*edit* Will this make the LGT handle comparably to an S2K or Mini? Probably not, but it certainly will improve the ride versus the underdamped, vague and mushy stock setup.

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After doing tons of reading and then finally test driving an LGT, I was terribly dissapointed in it's handling. The steering was vague...it felt fine, but it's response and "pinpoint" accuracy always seemed off and needing correction. The car floated going 40mph in a straight line. It was very comfy and quiet. It body rolled like crazy, and would squat and dive on any sort of acceleration/braking.

 

The stock LGT suspension setup is terrible for performance. But it doesn't take much to transform it.

 

First, up your tire pressures. Your steering response will improve. $380 in sway bars (Cobb Setup, which I have) will make your steering much more accurate, turn-in much better, and pretty much eliminate body roll. At this point (tire pressure and sways) my car became "fun"....whereas it wasn't fun before.

 

To underdog's point....if you are buying used, plan on replacing the sways and struts in your purchase. Chances are the sway bushings are getting old in the tooth and the struts are probably semi-worn if not ready for replacement.

 

It's still a 3300-3400 pound sedan....but it becomes a sport sedan instead of a family sedan.

 

Lastly, at 80000 miles it had different tires than stock (unless they replaced it with the same). Any chance the tires on it were a "grand touring passenger all-season" or similar. Those will further ruin the legacy.

 

This is not a car for an enthusiast to buy with the intention of being happy stock. It's a platform on which to build.

 

Joe

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After doing tons of reading and then finally test driving an LGT, I was terribly dissapointed in it's handling. The steering was vague...it felt fine, but it's response and "pinpoint" accuracy always seemed off and needing correction. The car floated going 40mph in a straight line. It was very comfy and quiet. It body rolled like crazy, and would squat and dive on any sort of acceleration/braking.

 

The stock LGT suspension setup is terrible for performance. But it doesn't take much to transform it.

 

First, up your tire pressures. Your steering response will improve. $380 in sway bars (Cobb Setup, which I have) will make your steering much more accurate, turn-in much better, and pretty much eliminate body roll. At this point (tire pressure and sways) my car became "fun"....whereas it wasn't fun before.

 

To underdog's point....if you are buying used, plan on replacing the sways and struts in your purchase. Chances are the sway bushings are getting old in the tooth and the struts are probably semi-worn if not ready for replacement.

 

It's still a 3300-3400 pound sedan....but it becomes a sport sedan instead of a family sedan.

 

Lastly, at 80000 miles it had different tires than stock (unless they replaced it with the same). Any chance the tires on it were a "grand touring passenger all-season" or similar. Those will further ruin the legacy.

 

This is not a car for an enthusiast to buy with the intention of being happy stock. It's a platform on which to build.

 

Joe

 

the rubber in the re92 is best appreciated as children's playground padding.

car for sale. PM me!
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I can't go back to convertible due to the neighborhood I'm in. It's much easier to tolorate broken side windows than ripped convertible tops...and in my neighborhood, it's a matter of when not if we'll get broken into again.

 

You tolerate broken windows? Forget the car, save your money and move to a better neighborhood. It's only a matter of time before something worse happens than your car being broken into. I'd drive a riced out civic if it meant living in a decent area.

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Lawl - You would expose children to these tires? Their technology is so old they are made out of asbestos! You monster! :)

 

I'm still on the stock knob. I checked out the Momo and STI Duracon....neither was what I was looking for. I'm fairly happy with the shifting right now, so I'll wait awhile or until a good sale comes around or some such and then probably go with the STI metal/leather weighted knob or similar.

 

Joe

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You tolerate broken windows? Forget the car, save your money and move to a better neighborhood. It's only a matter of time before something worse happens than your car being broken into. I'd drive a riced out civic if it meant living in a decent area.

 

unfortunately it comes with living in the city (SF). Our garage spot is reserved for my wife. I'm talking about a 15-20k car which is fine for me to be fixing windows everyonce in a while. This is another reason I was excited about the bland look of the legacy helping blend in with other vehicles on the street.

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