Cadillac ATS Brembo Caliper Upgrade for your Subaru

If you'd like I can tell you guys that all of your choices are rubbish and you act like insipid little children. Or maybe i can just go on and on about how awesome my choices are, not because I have experience to back it up, just because I thought it.

 

you forget the insulting comments on everyone's abilities and how your gf drives your car like it was stolen and you let her.

That's a very interesting brake conversion, wonder if it's as reliable as the stock ones.

That's a very interesting brake conversion, wonder if it's as reliable as the stock ones.

I think the fact that it's brembo-made (quality) and you don't have the stock slide pins make it a reliability improvement.

 

Mostly #2 though.

If you go mostly #2 its time to talk to your Dr

There are some threads on NASIOC about this conversion. My understanding is that the Cadillac caliper pistons are not sized properly for the Subaru master cylinder, they are smaller. And even though the pad size is the same as Subaru Brembos, the clamping force is less.

 

ducts are cheap insurance and well worth the money if you have any interest in track days. We (shop & I) figured they were worth about 800 degrees of cooling over none, based on their years of racing production cars.

 

I never wanted to track the Legacy, but I unfortunately blew my WRX motor at Watkins Glen two weekends ago. The spec being a significantly heavier car than the WRX (almost 500 lbs heavier) has me thinking what needs to be done to preserve the longevity of the car. What you describe confirms my suspicions that the Legacy is underbraked for its weight.

 

Did you notice a significant difference in bearing and/brake pad life after installing ducts?

 

Thanks for the feedback -- I think I'm going to try harder to keep the Legacy off the track and get the WRX motor replaced.

I never wanted to track the Legacy, but I unfortunately blew my WRX motor at Watkins Glen two weekends ago. The spec being a significantly heavier car than the WRX (almost 500 lbs heavier) has me thinking what needs to be done to preserve the longevity of the car. What you describe confirms my suspicions that the Legacy is underbraked for its weight.

 

Did you notice a significant difference in bearing and/brake pad life after installing ducts?

 

Thanks for the feedback -- I think I'm going to try harder to keep the Legacy off the track and get the WRX motor replaced.

 

Unfortunately, I have no real world experience with ducts on the LGT. My shop was adamant that ducts were the best upgrade for my streetcar, especially after talking to the Subaru Grand-Am racecar team. Fast forward a few years, and Sgt.Gator buys the "silver eagle" from the Subaru Grand-Am racecar team. We find out what brake ducts look like on the LGT, similar to what my shop recommended I do. His experience with them is they provide great cooling, except when the rotors get heat-soaked, then they are useless.

 

In my track experiences, I never felt my streetcar wagon was under-braked when using Hawk DTC-60/70 pads. Not looking to start a "holy war", just what I used based on shop recommendation. Even the Hawk HP+ was good on street tires. Going to race tires, treadwear 40, radically changed how much braking force I needed.

 

The one time I over-did the brakes, was pretty extreme and I was over-my-head and knew it. When you drive down the front straight, repeating "don't crash", you know you're in the "red mist" zone. However, in the "red mist" zone, your emotional intelligence quotient is zero.

 

The ducts would have saved the wheel bearings without a doubt. They probably would have saved my brake fluid in the above encounter. I'll be keeping them in the racecar and likely re-jiggering them to be better placed than currently are (Sgt.Gator says they interfere with turning the wheels)

my powder coated wheels and front brakes

The ducts would have saved the wheel bearings without a doubt. They probably would have saved my brake fluid in the above encounter. I'll be keeping them in the racecar and likely re-jiggering them to be better placed than currently are (Sgt.Gator says they interfere with turning the wheels)

 

I don't think I'll be using 40tw tires for the foreseeable future -- if it comes to that, it certainly will not be on the Legacy. DTC70s are more than enough for the street tires that I run, so in that sense, it doesn't seem like I'll ever be in the situation where I'll need ducting aside from the wheel bearing issue.

 

Curious though, in the LGT, with the DTC70s and ~200tw tires, did you ever have heat issues with the OE caliper slides & grease? Do you even use the OE calipers?

my powder coated wheels and front brakes

 

a much better look than the chrome :thumbsup:

I don't think I'll be using 40tw tires for the foreseeable future -- if it comes to that, it certainly will not be on the Legacy. DTC70s are more than enough for the street tires that I run, so in that sense, it doesn't seem like I'll ever be in the situation where I'll need ducting aside from the wheel bearing issue.

 

Curious though, in the LGT, with the DTC70s and ~200tw tires, did you ever have heat issues with the OE caliper slides & grease? Do you even use the OE calipers?

I used OE calipers the whole time. Still have them. Had one seize on a road trip, but never track.

its been a month..... no updates?

I just went through the install myself this past week. Tip #1: Don't be like me and assume your wheels will fit. Make sure you have an offset that will clear Brembo brakes. Tip #2: If you can't get your hub assembly separated from the knuckle, you can probably cut down the sheild enough to get the rotor to fit and still have proper clearance with the caliper and rotor. Without the shield, on my car anyway, the rotor was closer to the inboard side of the caliper. With part of the shield between the hub and knuckle still in place, I think the rotor would be centered in the caliper, or just a bit closer to the outboard side, but with enough room to not be an issue. Bottom line, instructions say to remove the shield, so do it if you can.

Otherwise everything went as planned. My measured weights for the rotor and caliper assemblies are as follows: Brembo with all hardware, pads, bracket and mounting bolts is 12 lbs even. Stock caliper with all hardware, Hawk 5.0 pads, bracket and bolts is 15.9 lbs. I again went with DBA 4000 rotors, weigh 21.8 lbs in stock fitment and 20.5 lbs in 2004 STi fitment. Total weight savings per corner on my car is 5.2 lbs.

So, what happened with your wheels? 08 Spec B wheels (18", I assume?), and they still didn't fit?

08 spec B wheels narrowly clear the face of the stock calipers. They definitely don't have the offset to clear Brembo calipers.

I was riding on 18x7.5 Prodrive GT1 wheels, which I've read will clear Brembo brakes, so I thought I was set for an affordable brake upgrade to replace my driver's side caliper that was seized. And it's true, they will fit if you've got the +48 offset. My GT1 wheels however are +53 offset. I've just ordered a set of Enkei PDC 18x8 +45.

Prodrive 7.5" +53 in 17 or 18 inch sizing will not clear Brembos. Require a 5mm spacer - 10mm is better.

I could have used that info 3 weeks ago. I've decided new wheels are better than spacers. By my measurement the spacers would need to be closer to 10mm. Which makes me ask, would the 8mm difference in offset be enough between the Enkei and Prodrive wheels? Perhaps spoke design has a lot to do with it. Or how is it that I measure a 10mm spacer would be needed, but I difference in 5mm offset between the same Prodrive wheels would be enough?

Just a quick question, the OBXT's stock rims are 17x7.5 with a 48mm offset. will they fit these brakes, or would I need to shave the caddie calipers as well?

 

I need to buy new tires anyway, and the rims are all sorts of fucked, so it's not much different to me, but I just want to know ahead of time.

 

Edit: after reading everything, looks like I'd need a 10mm spacer.

Edited August 18, 2016 by kaluce

About a week ago I got finished up with the install of the ATS Brembo brakes, Bilstein HD with STi Pinks, Stop Tech braided steel lines, Whiteline roll center kit, and, thanks to my lack of attention to detail, Enkei PDC 18x8 +45 wheels in Hyper Gray. Here's how it looks now. Plenty of clearance for the Brembo calipers.

Pardon the uncleanliness.

Edited August 19, 2016 by DMTaylor

About a week ago I got finished up with the install of the ATS Brembo brakes, Bilstein HD with STi Pinks, Stop Tech braided steel lines, Whiteline roll center kit, and, thanks to my lack of attention to detail, Enkei PDC 18x8 +45 wheels in Hyper Gray. Here's how it looks now. Plenty of clearance for the Brembo calipers.

Pardon the uncleanliness.

 

Dood, looks great! Love calipers and wheels really compliment each other. So how do you like the brakes?

Love them! Despite needing to buy new wheels, I'd say it's a perfect upgrade for someone like me who needed to replace a caliper anyway.

So does this mean you now drive a Cadillac Legacy.....? lol

Not until it has a Cadillac heart transplant! Yeah, I'd like to cover the Cadillac with some other decal, just undecided what to do. Subaru, spec.B, simple Brembo....

Not until it has a Cadillac heart transplant! Yeah, I'd like to cover the Cadillac with some other decal, just undecided what to do. Subaru, spec.B, simple Brembo....

 

 

I did Brembo in black on my 04 STI brembos. I liked it

Love them! Despite needing to buy new wheels, I'd say it's a perfect upgrade for someone like me who needed to replace a caliper anyway.

 

How better is the brake feel? Night and Day? Or surprisingly not as much?