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Couple questions on Pinks/Bilstein setup


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I am going to put together Bilstein and Pinks that were sitting around for few weeks now, just got my pass-through socket set today. However, as I was reading through JDM OEM suspension FAQ at http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61108 and checking the parts I got from Fred Beans for Bilstein conversion, couple questions poped up.

 

1. The FAQ states :

 

Any tips on the install?

 

Not really. Make sure to properly position front seats/perches - the drain holes need to be oriented outside. Do not use stock dome washer/spacer between spring seat and top hat.

 

Why not use the spacer ( OEM part # 20326AA000 ) ? Any specific reason against it ?I thought it made sense to have it there such that top spring seat does not rub against the top hat. What's experience running with/without it ?

 

 

2. I was surprised not to find a rubber spring seat that goes to bottom seat; bottom of the spring sits directly at metal plate of the Bilstein strut. This seems to be by design. Does not this setup produce some noise when spring bends under load ? Toyota and Honda (AFAIK) both have rubber seats at top and bottom of the spring. Did anyone try to find some fitting part from other make ?I tried two Toyota spring seats that I had laying around, they don't fit perfectly. Again, what's your experience regarding noise?

 

I'll appreciate your feedback as I would hate to take struts off the car and redo setup due to some little rubber seat :eek:

 

thanks !

2005 LGT Wagon Limited 6 MT RBP Stage 2 - 248K

2007 B9 Tribeca Limited DGM - 258K

SOLD - 2005 OB Limited 5 MT Silver - 245K

SOLD - 2010 OB 6 MT Silver - 205K

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I installed the bilsteins with ralliteks and followed unclemat's advice and did not install the spacer. The lower surface of the top hat bearing mates well with the upper surface of the spring seat and the bearing rotates well with no rubbing. There is actually more surface area coming in contact with the bearing this way. Installing it will just raise the suspension some in front and if you use the nuts that come with bilstein struts you might not have enough threads there.

There is no noise created from the spring coming in contact with the metal strut at the bottom, although I completely agree with you. They should have designed a rubber bottom seat. The spring will eventually wear the paint out and create a bare metal spot at the end of the spring.

I was thinking of making my own, but I was in too much of a hurry to test the suspension out.

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I'm curious about #1 too...

 

FWIW, I've had no odd noises from my setup even with the metal-to-metal contact between the spring and the strut.

 

Ditto fr me as well.

I debated leaving it off but I left the washer in.:confused:

No problems here.

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http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l263/smccorry/H-tech%20spring%20install/Frontstrutexploded1.jpg

 

Just to be clear, we're talking about the washer shown here in between the top hat and the spring seat?

 

(Image poached from this thread.)

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I didn't really compare the specb top hat to the stock lgt top hat, but my guess is that the spherical washer is used only on the LGT stock setup because the bearing surface is a little deeper on the stock lgt top hat than on the specb version. Maybe someone can pipe in on this that knows for sure.

Anyway, you will have more contact surface area against the bearing if you leave it out when using the bilstein specb setup, which in my mind translates to better mechanical connection. The more surface area to transfer force, the better.

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http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l263/smccorry/H-tech%20spring%20install/Frontstrutexploded1.jpg

 

Just to be clear, we're talking about the washer shown here in between the top hat and the spring seat?

 

(Image poached from this thread.)

 

yes that's the one. Can't really see the pics from work but I was reading that thread last night :)

 

Seems to be used on a lot of Subarus - do part search on say https://www.1stsubaruparts.com/partscat.html

2005 LGT Wagon Limited 6 MT RBP Stage 2 - 248K

2007 B9 Tribeca Limited DGM - 258K

SOLD - 2005 OB Limited 5 MT Silver - 245K

SOLD - 2010 OB 6 MT Silver - 205K

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The sti top bearing has a larger inner race which the upper spring seat mates up against, thus eliminating the need for the washer. If you use the washer, the bearing will not center on the stud on top of the strut and there willnot be enough thread sticking out of the top hat to secure the nut on the solid part of the stud. THrow it aside, put the boot on the piston, then the spring seat, then the strut bearing. Just look at the difference of the underside of the strut bearing on the original and the STI one, you will understand.
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2. I was surprised not to find a rubber spring seat that goes to bottom seat; bottom of the spring sits directly at metal plate of the Bilstein strut. This seems to be by design. Does not this setup produce some noise when spring bends under load ? Toyota and Honda (AFAIK) both have rubber seats at top and bottom of the spring. Did anyone try to find some fitting part from other make ?I tried two Toyota spring seats that I had laying around, they don't fit perfectly. Again, what's your experience regarding noise?

 

do not put Toyota or Honda parts on your subaru. m'kay? :icon_roll

 

i put STI pink springs on and if my memory serves the front springs were coated at the bottom and the rears were not, they simply sit on the lower seat. no noise...

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Specific reason is it doesn't belong there. Subaru doesn't put it there on cars that come stock with Bilsteins, either.

 

I asked Jeremy to stop supplying that dome spacer. It's wrong and confuses people apparently.

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OK guys thanks for making things clearer. Putting them together today.

2005 LGT Wagon Limited 6 MT RBP Stage 2 - 248K

2007 B9 Tribeca Limited DGM - 258K

SOLD - 2005 OB Limited 5 MT Silver - 245K

SOLD - 2010 OB 6 MT Silver - 205K

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Specific reason is it doesn't belong there. Subaru doesn't put it there on cars that come stock with Bilsteins, either.

 

I asked Jeremy to stop supplying that dome spacer. It's wrong and confuses people apparently.

 

Well it confused me. I left them in and the install went fine.I hate to pull that all apart again for a friggen washer.:mad:

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Can anyone tell what sizes are the top hat self-locking nuts for front and rear ? They weren't included in Bilstein kit and car is not with me at the moment so I can't look.

 

Couldn't do the Bilstein bump stop mod - the screws were so tight I couldn't move them even after soaking for 2 hours with penetrating spray.... Had to give up in order not to destroy the shocks :redface:

2005 LGT Wagon Limited 6 MT RBP Stage 2 - 248K

2007 B9 Tribeca Limited DGM - 258K

SOLD - 2005 OB Limited 5 MT Silver - 245K

SOLD - 2010 OB 6 MT Silver - 205K

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Well it confused me. I left them in and the install went fine.I hate to pull that all apart again for a friggen washer.:mad:

 

I dont think you have to pull them apart....if you got them in fine it should be OK I would think.

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I dont think you have to pull them apart....if you got them in fine it should be OK I would think.

 

live update here - as GTTuner suggested I put spring seat and top hat right on the shock without the spring just to see how it works with/without the washer. DO NOT INSTALL WASHER on Bilsteins with JDM/SpecB tophats. with washer the top hat doesn't reach struts rod low enough for proper centering and moves around about 2mm each direction. I made couple pics showing how far it moves from side to side. Scary.

2005 LGT Wagon Limited 6 MT RBP Stage 2 - 248K

2007 B9 Tribeca Limited DGM - 258K

SOLD - 2005 OB Limited 5 MT Silver - 245K

SOLD - 2010 OB 6 MT Silver - 205K

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live update here - as GTTuner suggested I put spring seat and top hat right on the shock without the spring just to see how it works with/without the washer. DO NOT INSTALL WASHER on Bilsteins with JDM/SpecB tophats. with washer the top hat doesn't reach struts rod low enough for proper centering and moves around about 2mm each direction. I made couple pics showing how far it moves from side to side. Scary.

 

 

pics please :)

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OK, here are two pics of Bilstein HD strut rod top sticking out from JDM top hat WITH washer installed between top spring seat and top hat. Strut's rod MOVES around in top hat because of the washer :

p1020677.jpg.8c4b425e6ff33182f6172ff744684615.jpg

p1020678.jpg.d09b419a626911b8bf1be0d04a8177a2.jpg

2005 LGT Wagon Limited 6 MT RBP Stage 2 - 248K

2007 B9 Tribeca Limited DGM - 258K

SOLD - 2005 OB Limited 5 MT Silver - 245K

SOLD - 2010 OB 6 MT Silver - 205K

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I think the deal with the washer is:

 

USDM (non SpecB)top hat = requires USDM shock = requires washer - regardless of springs, i.e. as soon as USDM top hat is kept on the car so msut be the washer

 

JDM ( and SpecB) top hat = requires aftermarket shock = must NOT install washer due to difference in bearing height between USDM and JDM top hats. With JDM top hat washer will prevent rod centering properly in top hat bearing due to insufficient length of strut rod.

2005 LGT Wagon Limited 6 MT RBP Stage 2 - 248K

2007 B9 Tribeca Limited DGM - 258K

SOLD - 2005 OB Limited 5 MT Silver - 245K

SOLD - 2010 OB 6 MT Silver - 205K

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