what is "too much" swaybar for Stock Springs?

How much is too much swaybar for the stock springs/struts on a Legacy GT Wagon? I don't care how the car looks, but how well it grips, and with how much confidence I can drive it.

 

I would think that at some point, too much ARB on both front and rear, would reduce a car's performance for a given, less-than perfect road because the suspension acts less independently. (A bump on one side of the car is able to upset the grip on the other side of the car).

That's a very hard answer to give because track, autocross and daily driving are all different environments. It really depends on what you want to achieve. The answer you are looking for can be as simple as settling with just a stock sway bar and the driver can do all the adjustments instead. You can go really thick or just weld the endlinks down and have no flex at all. It's really a matter of preference when it comes down to sway bars because it's a finer adjustment that the drive can deal with at the end.

 

There is a limit by design on the GT on sizing (due to clearance issues). Go as big as you want. It's a balance ordeal too (bigger sway in the rear or bigger sway in the front). If I had a "sway bar making machine" at home, I would aim for something like a 30mm front sway bar and a 34mm sway bar in the rear with matching billet endlinks that uses 20mm bolts. I just like having a car that can has a wild rear while I can always power out of trouble.

 

Since the world of swaybars, there isnt much of a big enough difference in choice of sizes. Typical sizing for a bigger sway bar in the aftermarket world is from 23mm to 25mm and 18mm to 25mm for the rear (adjustable rears) as far as I know. I dont think there's anything bigger right now that is mass-produced. Remember, hollow tubing and solid tubing actually acts differently. Some companies like a hollow design to save weight (anywhere from 2 to 4 lbs.. personally I'll just run 0.5 gallon less gas instead).

 

The answer you are probably looking for in "what is too much" is when you can't handle the car or something just doesnt feel right to you. I love to drive cars that are stiff as hell (like a go-kart for example) and it's really easy to overdrive them. Some people can't handle that super stiff suspension and would like some play or cushion to cover up driver-mistakes during input. Hopefully my insight helps you in finding out what works for you.

 

Keefe

I don't know what Eibach is planning for the '05 Legacy, but they're known for their suspension tuning geared towards a performance-oriented daily-driver, so to speak. So if they develop upgraded sway bars for the car, you'd probably be safe with them.

 

Of course that doesn't mean there aren't any other good options for you. But I wouldn't want "too much" sway bar either. I'd also want a good balance -- not too heavily geared for either understeer or oversteer, and especially no snap oversteer. I also would want to prevent the driving on 3 wheels effect that you get during hard cornering when one of the sway bars is too stiff, lol.

if you go up on both ends its not nearly as big a deal as if you went to a 27 (made from 1" stock hodgkis/progress) rear and a stock front that will be down right dangerous in a throttle lift white turning..

Thanks for the input. I understand that keeping relative balance is important. I would think that a balanced set of stiff sway bars would help keep the outside tires squared up to the pavement. But that at some point, I would think too much swaybar could start negatively affecting the tires' contact patches (as a bumps start causing chatter on the remote side).

 

xenonk thanks for the input. Yes, daily driving, Autox and Track are very different, so I don't expect to excell at any with one setup, but I would like to see what I can do with stock springs. You mentioned you like "stiff as hell (like a go-kart for example)" That usually means both stiff roll resistance and stiff springs. Which gets back to my original question - what really happens to handling when maximally stiff ARBS are used with soft springs. Anybody tried it and compared lap times?

A sway bar is useless the moment the opposing tires leave the ground (the sway bar transfers the force from the outside wheel to the inside wheel to share the grip load). If the inside wheel lifts, then there is no pavement to neutralize the force. When you go with a larger sway bar or stiffening the suspension, you are isolating the tires to handle the force more rather than the chassis of the car. So when you go with soft springs and a HUGE sway bar, the tires will get a beating and take more of the impact of the force quicker from side to side. All the camber in the world cant save you from a set of soft springs when you corner that hard.

 

Keefe