[How-To] Clutch Damper Valve Delete

Mike at Infamous just confirmed that that Goodridge clutch line does NOT fit our cars. I will work on a solution, but honestly, I think I am going to do the damper delete and get used to the clutch for a while and do the braided line later to see if I can gauge an improvement from just that mod alone. Edited April 1, 2014 by GTEASER

just remember, if you do this... no more clutch dumps.

Wow that got to you way before local dealer could have gotten it to you gteaser. Nice.

 

Thanks for the pic of it. I was all over the place that day. I wasn't even taking the pics, my phone was dead and my buddy who was helping me was taking them. Thought of it after I was done that I should have had him take a pic of just the piece by itself.

Lots of discussion on various forums about Clutch Damper Valves or Clutch Delay Valves and deleting them. It seems many manufacturers use them, but across the board, when folks are looking for a more consistent pedal feel, and having clutch bleeding or damper failure issues, removing it is the answer....whether its Subaru, Nissan, Isuzu, Honda, etc....

 

http://www.nissanpathfinders.net/forum/topic/32833-how-to-clutch-damper-bypass/

 

http://www.eurocarparts.com/clutch-dampers

 

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/how-install/12865-clutch-delay-valve-repost-pics.html

 

http://www.fitfreak.net/forums/fit-engine-modifications-motor-swaps-ecu-tuning/42035-clutch-delay-valve.html

 

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1855826

 

http://www.sr20-forum.com/suspension-brakes-tech/38420-p11-how-install-ss-hydro-clutch-line-bypass-damper-bleed-clutch.html

 

http://www.preludeonline.com/f28/i-m-going-bypass-clutch-damper-212895/

Edited April 1, 2014 by GTEASER

just remember, if you do this... no more clutch dumps.

 

Or busted half shafts!!

Or busted half shafts!!

 

Are you saying the half-shafts will bust pre-delete or post-delete? I'd assume post-delete.

 

Speaking of which, I still haven't figured out how to launch the car properly from a standstill (and I'm pre-delete over here). I haven't done any crazy clutch dumps, but I just can't get the thing rolling off the line — speedily — in any consistent manner. Basically I give it gas and let go of the clutch at the same time, and the RPMs/engine bogs down and the car somewhat hiccups from the line. Note that I don't build up the RPMs prior to the launch.

 

So,

 

#1 any tips on how to launch it properly, and

 

#2 will the damper delete help this, or cause me to start breaking half-shafts?

 

I'm not trying to kill the car or cause unnecessary damage to it, I just want to launch it like a rocket -- is that so hard to ask for?

Miro, I wish we lived a little closer, this could make a great afternoon wrenching on both our rides. The lack of a fixed engagement point has been bothering me for almost 5 years now. Definitely want to do this mod.

 

That would be swell

 

I go to SD on occasion to visit extended family, but there's no way I'd risk possibly screwing up my car so far away from home (even though the chances seem very unlikely for this mod). The Wife would go

That would be swell

 

I go to SD on occasion to visit extended family, but there's no way I'd risk possibly screwing up my car so far away from home (even though the chances seem very unlikely for this mod). The Wife would go

 

Agreed, not a risk either one of us are willing to take.

Is it possible to leave the damper, just change the dampening profile (so to speak), which would help with more consistent launching?

I think that would be a huge task with mixed results. Removing it will make launches more consistent in and of itself.

Anyone local in NJ that would want to help me do this mod? =)

Are you saying the half-shafts will bust pre-delete or post-delete? I'd assume post-delete.

 

 

 

Speaking of which, I still haven't figured out how to launch the car properly...

 

So,

 

 

 

#1 any tips on how to launch it properly, and

 

 

 

#2 will the damper delete help this, or cause me to start breaking half-shafts?

 

 

 

I'm not trying to kill the car or cause unnecessary damage to it, I just want to launch it like a rocket -- is that so hard to ask for?

 

 

As others have said, I definitely think this mod will make the clutch feel much more consistent, which in turn will allow you to improve your launches, with PRACTICE. Practice is key with any vehicle that you are still learning. Half-shaft breakage on this car is very possible, as evidenced by Road & Track's first test of the 5th gen LGT. If you're struggling with getting her moving smoothly in normal city driving, I'd definitely suggest more practice at normal launches before you move on to aggressive ones, imho.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As others have said, I definitely think this mod will make the clutch feel much more consistent, which in turn will allow you to improve your launches, with PRACTICE. Practice is key with any vehicle that you are still learning. Half-shaft breakage on this car is very possible, as evidenced by Road & Track's first test of the 5th gen LGT. If you're struggling with getting her moving smoothly in normal city driving, I'd definitely suggest more practice at normal launches before you move on to aggressive ones, imho.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I don't have any issue [Lil'Wayne]moving smoothly like a coupe through traffic [/Lil'Wayne] about 99% of the time. But then there are those times, some random Tuesday or whatnot, where I start from a standstill and it becomes a "dafuq :confused:" moment. I'm hopeful the damper delete will delete those dafuq moments, so to speak.

 

I tried practicing moderate launches, but my options are few and far between since I don't have many areas where I can launch without looking like a total tool. I definitely make sure I'm free of traffic, pedestrians, and that I'm on a fairly wide road before attempting something silly like that.

 

I remember reading this C&D article where they had similar half-shaft problems, which is why I'm also hesitant to even do a moderate launch off the line.

 

But we digress -- I can start another "help me launch my car" thread or search the forums. Thanks!

On the breaking half-shaft thing..... I honestly haven't heard of anyone losing one on this forum since I have been here. I tend to think it was possibly an issue with the early 2010 LGT. The car I test drove (and subsequently fell in love with the LGT) was a 2010 with 36k miles on it. When I asked the dealer to pull the service history, it was produced in early June of 2009 and it had both front axles replaced under warranty because they had broken. It seems like maybe it was a problem with the early 2010 cars where the wrong axle was spec'ed by the factory, or maybe faulty parts from the supplier, and SOA figured it out pretty quickly.

 

Look at SomeZero, he is like a drag racing maniac with something like 45 dragstrip launches with mucho Stage2+ power, and I don't believe he has had any issue with axles.

No broken axels here, and I've got a stack of timeslips too, lol

 

I don't think anyone's beat my 12.5 yet either, at least not a stock turbo 5th gen...

Did the clutch damper delete tonight and the improvement is significant. More to come once I get a few more miles with the "new" clutch.

 

This is how I modified the union to fit properly like reeg420 eluded to. I used a belt sander to grind one of the gussets off the casting to fit flush up against the bracket. The remaining gusset goes toward the front of the car.

 

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/05/ygysymav.jpg

 

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/05/saba8ure.jpg

Nice, if mine ever comes out again I'll trim it.

 

Clutch feels totally different huh gteaser?

 

Did you happen to look down the damper valve and notice how small the hole is? Tiny.

Clutch Damper Delete Review #1 (2 days in)

 

So I had a chance to put some miles (200+/-) on the car yesterday, split between highway driving and the twisties. Un-learning the mush that is the OEM clutch with the damper is a challenge, but I am getting accustomed to the newly afforded consistency in the pedal quite quickly. I do find myself forgetting on occasion that it will feel different, but those episodes are getting fewer as I am replacing my old learned behavior with the new. Here are a few areas where the difference is significant. I agree with the comments from reeg420 completely and I have noticed some other benefits as well.

 

Consistency - the clutch engagement point does not float around as it used to. It is in the exact same place every time.

 

Engagement/Feel - the pedal feels slightly firmer and engagement is higher on the pedal and more precise with less "noob" effect and smoother start and engine meshing.

 

Shifting - as reeg420 mentioned, you can feel the disc release from the pressure plate quicker and the rpms drop faster between shifts. Also, I intermittenly used to have this issue where I would sometimes get the timing of the 1-2 shift wrong and the clutch wouldn't be fully disengaged before I pulled it from first to second. It would sometimes feel like I would catch first a little with a "pop" release of the gear teeth. That is completely gone. All shifts and rev matching are far smoother and more precise than before, whether its an upshift or a downshift.

 

Driveability - far smoother than before and more satisfying, engaging and with more of a connected feeling to the mechanicals.

 

Overall, a fantastic mod. I will provide more feedback as time goes by and if any issues arise. I don't expect any, but I also haven't launched at all yet since I am getting used to the new feel. Launch update soon.

Edited April 6, 2014 by GTEASER

I wonder if some of the damper valves are messed up or something like that (I remember seeing a post where someone actually had theirs crack!). I have had no issues with an inconsistent engagement point, and have no troubles getting a smooth start. If anything, I thought the clutch pedal was a bit on the light side, but I was coming from an 02 WRX and the early WRX was pretty firm before they updated it in 2003 because some folks were having chatter issues (though that's more of a pressure plate issue, I suppose).

GTEASER, a couple of questions:

 

1. Roughly how long did the whole thing take to swap out?

 

2. Did you swap out all the clutch fluid, or just a part of it / none of it in order to get this done?

 

3. How messy was the whole procedure on the inside of the car? Is stuff gonna drip/flow everywhere if the clutch fluid is not fully drained? (Obviously this depends on your answer to #2.)

Overall it took about 2 to 2-1/2 hours. For those with LGTs, the intercooler needs to be removed to bleed the system at the slave cylinder after the delete is in place. so that adds some time. I probably replaced all the fluid as a result of bleeding to ensure no air in the system. When you remove the hard line from the clutch master cylinder and the line from the rear of the damper, yes, fluid will drip, but it wasn't quite as bad as I thought it might be. I placed an old sweatshirt on the carpet and I had Swannee225 right there to hand me paper towels to soak it up as it dripped, and to hand him the sopping paper towels without having to remove myself from the driver's footwell. I removed the rear damper line first and soaked it up until it stopped dripping, then went to the master cylinder connection and soaked it up until the dripping stopped. Then unbolted the bolt that holds the damper in place. Did the mod to the union as specified above and put it all back together, carefully, to ensure that the hard lines are lined up as to not cross-thread the fittings.

 

DO NOT GET THE CLUTCH (BRAKE) FLUID ON INTERIOR SURFACES, IT IS CORROSIVE TO SOME PAINTS AND PLASTICS, BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU TOUCH.

 

DO NOT PUSH ON THE CLUTCH PEDAL WITH THE LINE REMOVED, IT WILL PUKE OUT FLUID. (luckily I didnt learn the hard way on this, lol)

 

KEEP SOME BRAKE-CLEAN HANDY TO WIPE UP MESSES.

 

DO NOT LET THE MASTER CYLINDER RESERVOIR GO DRY, IF YOU DO, YOU RISK INTRODUCING AIR INTO IT AND THAT MAKES THE BLEEDING PROCESS MORE DIFFICULT.

 

Overall I would say it was pretty easy, but I do have a fair amount of experience working on cars.

Edited April 7, 2014 by GTEASER

Ah that's why it took you the extra time. Couldn't figure it out.

For the 2.5i I didn't have to remove anything to bleed the slave cylinder. That saves alot of time removing and installing it back.

Took me about 30 or so minutes. With a quick "safety meeting" after I swapped the hard lines.

Hahahaaha!! "Safety Meeting". Me and my buddies used to have those on mountain bike rides once we reached the top of the mountain. We would have a "safety meeting" and make our offering to Hobbi-Knobbi, and then bonzai down at full "safe" tilt.

 

I am not a mechanic by day, but rather a weekend warrior/bench racer, so I tend to do things a little slower to make sure I am thinking things thru properly, plus, a little of my time removing the intercooler on this job is a small price to pay for the thrill of the turbo powah.

Edited April 7, 2014 by GTEASER

#1 any tips on how to launch it properly, and

 

You have to slip the clutch. It takes some practice to get the feel right. Practice trying to get the car moving from a dead stop without using throttle. Launching is pretty much the same motions/phases, just much quicker, and obviously with a hoof-full of throttle.

 

#2 will the damper delete help this, or cause me to start breaking half-shafts?

 

Yes.

Yes to which, or both?