2006 LGT rebuild needed

So the wagon is showing it's age at nearly 160,000 km. Had a drivetrain noise since last fall. Subaru of Calgary checked it over, diagnosed Center diff. Got the turbo banjo cleaned, found small bits of metal. Also found a bit of oil leaking internal to the turbo, with intake hose and oil return covered in oil. Maybe an opportunity to change out turbo, DP and UP, get an Airboy tune!

Got the tranny fixed, new clutch also. Did a comp/leak down to assess motor health. Poor leakdown, 7 to 15%, #2 the worst. Get a P302 the day I take it home. Was scheduled to take it to a local performance/tuning shop the next day to put together an upgrade plan. They had a closer look, determined the turbo is ok, but cylinder #2 is leaking. Also boost leak at TMIC. So upgrade is on hold, they suggested a few options to fix it, then AP stg1 at most for a DD.

Choices are drop in a used long block, swap in reman short block, or upgraded block.

Funds are not a problem, but it's not prudent to dump excess cash into a car that will rust out in 5 or 6 years. But until the Levorg comes to Canada, I may as we'll keep it running. There is no other car with the combination of awd, manual, power, handling, wagon cargo room, and low, easily accessible roof racks.

Several years ago I swapped in Bilstein struts, Rallispec springs, rear spacer shims, upgraded brakes and bushings. Was content to leave the engine stock.

Any thoughts on engine options and upgrade path?

So the wagon is showing it's age at nearly 160,000 km. Had a drivetrain noise since last fall. Subaru of Calgary checked it over, diagnosed Center diff. Got the turbo banjo cleaned, found small bits of metal. Also found a bit of oil leaking internal to the turbo, with intake hose and oil return covered in oil. Maybe an opportunity to change out turbo, DP and UP, get an Airboy tune!

 

Got the tranny fixed, new clutch also. Did a comp/leak down to assess motor health. Poor leakdown, 7 to 15%, #2 the worst. Get a P302 the day I take it home. Was scheduled to take it to a local performance/tuning shop the next day to put together an upgrade plan. They had a closer look, determined the turbo is ok, but cylinder #2 is leaking. Also boost leak at TMIC. So upgrade is on hold, they suggested a few options to fix it, then AP stg1 at most for a DD.

 

Choices are drop in a used long block, swap in reman short block, or upgraded block. New OEM shortblock, New OEM shortblock, or, New OEM shortblock.

 

Funds are not a problem, but it's not prudent to dump excess cash into a car that will rust out in 5 or 6 years. But until the Levorg comes to Canada, I may as we'll keep it running. There is no other car with the combination of awd, manual, power, handling, wagon cargo room, and low, easily accessible roof racks.

 

Several years ago I swapped in Bilstein struts, Rallispec springs, rear spacer shims, upgraded brakes and bushings. Was content to leave the engine stock.

 

Any thoughts on engine options and upgrade path?

See above. Then see my Shopping List.

Hey Tris, the second link in your sig doesn't work:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/tris-build-thread-223568.html

I'm reading through your first link though.. lots of good info there. I'm gonna keep an eye on it because at some point I might want to go through it.

Thanks..

2nd link is literally the 1st link at this point. All condensed and properly packaged into 1 thread now.

Used long blocks are going to be the same miles or more than what you already have and literally in need of rebuild soon.

Read my click here link in my sig.

All you need is there too.

Also see the new build thread forum down below.

I've read dozens of threads and hundreds of pages on this forum. Clearly pointing to things I won't do:

- Rebuild my block myself. A great hobby, but I am not prepared to spend hundreds of hours.

- get a shop to rebuild the block. The car is a dd, never raced, so no need for a custom build.

It would be great to get 3 more years out of the vehicle, and both dealers offer 3 year warranty on reman blocks. ~$5000CDN, plus $1000 - $2000 headwork

An indie Subaru shop gives a 1 year warranty on supposedly new block. $5000CDN. But they expect headwork of $3000, typically replace exhaust valves.

The car sits at a performance tuning shop. They floated options from drop in used motor (no warranty), change out sb, to rebuild. I'm slightly interested in a low km late model perhaps wrx motor. My TMIC is leaking, the turbo is due for a swap to a rebuilt one, and every hose, solenoid, pump, and valve on my engine is old and tired. I could easily go down the rabbit hole of an extra $3000 with turbo, TMIC, and misc bits. On top of min $6000 sb+headwork.

Lots to consider.

Possible new oem used short block?

Subaruonlineparts.com

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I am leaning toward new sb. I am still waiting for the speed shop to get a chance to put things back together so I can limp home and plan the next steps. A busy shop.

Another indie subaru shop known for good work suggests a new sb also, but suggests headwork to include new exhaust valves as part of the headwork, given the age etc of engine. Both dealers use reman sb, and regrind valves as needed - much cheaper headwork, but same price on sb.

Is it really typically necessary or recommended to replace exhaust valves at ~100,000 miles while it is easy? Are they just bracing me for that possibility?

Yep, those prices look way high to me. My machine shop bill was $1200 that's with $300 of porting in the heads. They also took the heads off the old block and gave me back a ready to drop long block, with painted oil pan.

Shop around, or look into DIY for the R&R of the engine.

ej257 is $1645 new. gasket set $250.

Valves shouldn't need to be replaced unless they're burnt/damaged. Headwork shouldn't cost you more than $400USD (So, whatever that is in CDN).

Thanks for your perspective. Hard to imagine ~$500CDN headwork, unless I find a machine shop and bring them the heads myself. The dealers suggest $1500 to $2400CDN, depending which shop. Indie shop estimates $3000 with new ex valves!

Either a huge markup, or very highly paid machine shops in Calgary.

Thanks for your perspective. Hard to imagine ~$500CDN headwork, unless I find a machine shop and bring them the heads myself. The dealers suggest $1500 to $2400CDN, depending which shop. Indie shop estimates $3000 with new ex valves!

 

Either a huge markup, or very highly paid machine shops in Calgary.

The exchange rate makes it confusing here, but, for that money, you should be getting all new castings with all new valves, springs, retainers, etc -

I'm asking for myself and Because I feel like this question is relevant to the OP but how much do u guys reckon a builder should charge to replace the ocvs if I'm putting in a new sb and the heads are getting pulled for a rebuild?

Next to nothing. Honestly, I wouldn't pay someone to do it. See those yellow and grey things sticking up on the outermost edges of each head? Yeah, those are the OCVs. Not tough to get to or complicated to replace. You can do it yourself.

I am leaning toward new sb. I am still waiting for the speed shop to get a chance to put things back together so I can limp home and plan the next steps. A busy shop.

Another indie subaru shop known for good work suggests a new sb also, but suggests headwork to include new exhaust valves as part of the headwork, given the age etc of engine. Both dealers use reman sb, and regrind valves as needed - much cheaper headwork, but same price on sb.

 

Is it really typically necessary or recommended to replace exhaust valves at ~100,000 miles while it is easy? Are they just bracing me for that possibility?

If they are putting it together for you to drive on, this sounds like vales are somewhat decent? I also say new shortblock cause a used engine is literally what you already have and you will literally be back in the same situation of needing a rebuild and paying money again to pull it again.

I'm asking for myself and Because I feel like this question is relevant to the OP but how much do u guys reckon a builder should charge to replace the ocvs if I'm putting in a new sb and the heads are getting pulled for a rebuild?

OCV's are easy, only issue I had was the passenger side where I had to remove the turbo coolant tank and bend a bracket after rotating the sensor 90* to get in that tight space. If the engine is in pieces then it's literally as easy as inserting a square peg into a square hole.

Only the machine shop will know for sure what valves need to be replaced in the head.

Having said that, most of there engines that have been on the stock tune will need some valves. The best thing you can do for the new SB is to get the car off the OEM tune. It has a timing flaw that will cause burnt valves.

FWIW, I'm still using the OCV's that came in my car.

Also in case you missed it, have both banjo filters removed during the re-assembly.

Read MrTris and my links, make a list, take notes.

I'm asking for myself and Because I feel like this question is relevant to the OP but how much do u guys reckon a builder should charge to replace the ocvs if I'm putting in a new sb and the heads are getting pulled for a rebuild?

NOT A DAMN THING. If they charge you you're at the wrong shop. doing a new short block those come off under the disassembly time, therefore you have already been charged. it would have to be reinstalled in the reassembly time and you have already been charged. It doesnt matter if they are reinstalling the originals, or new.

NOT A DAMN THING. If they charge you you're at the wrong shop. doing a new short block those come off under the disassembly time, therefore you have already been charged. it would have to be reinstalled in the reassembly time and you have already been charged. It doesnt matter if they are reinstalling the originals, or new.

They never quoted me anything, but I don't want any surprise charges when I show to pick up my car (especially ones that shouldnt be there) and new ocv s were one of the extra things I included for piece of mind. (Which is due in part because this car had already suffered a turbo failure according to the previous owner) 180 bucks for ocvs , seems like cheap insurance on a 7k build. Good luck to the OP on whatever direction u choose, everyone on this forum steered me in a pretty dam good/cost effective direction tho.

I brought it in originally to assess engine health before replacing/upgrading the turbo. Got the P302 the evening before taking it in.

They did another comp/leak down test, but checked more carefully than the previous shop. #2 down 15%. Heard leakage in crankcase, not valves. Also smoke tested for leaks, TMIC is on it's way out. But the turbo is ok.

So I'm making a list and checking it twice. Can hardly wait to get the project underway!

So I'm still planning to take it to stage2 while I'm at it. Cobb catted downpipe and Accessport, GS uppipe and EBCS arrived last week. (Thank you KNS for such speedy service. Yesterday received JmP rebuilt custom VF40. (Thank you JmP for your ongoing support!)

So now to choose a path for the engine overhaul. Three options:

Cheapest:

1) Independent Subaru focused shop would install a new EJ257, rework the heads, reassemble and install. One year warranty, voided by modification. They have done ok work for me in the past, but mixed reviews in town. Not sure I trust them 100%

~$1500 USD more:

2) One of the Subaru dealers. Uses Subaru of Canada remanufactured sb, and one of the best machine shops in town for headwork. Three year warranty, voided by mods. Will offer loaner car - not needed, but nice to have. Mixed reviews in town, but ok for me. I can get straight talk from the service manager.

~2500 USD even more:

3) local speedshop, with one of the best tuners around. Shop itself has mixed reviews, but mostly good. Started with mostly Subarus but take on a lot of other projects too. Only do full builds, forged internals, blueprinted, new valves, valve guides, keepers and seals. New inlet hose, Crawford AOS, ARP head studs, Killer B pu and baffle etc, etc. Includes install of my new UP, DP,EBCS as needed. Also breakin oil changes, dyno breakin and tune. With a very highly regarded tuner. Awaiting warranty details.

I'm not strapped for funds, but don't want to overbuild needlessly. Looking for a bombproof solution with a modest performance bump. Warranty is nice to have (but not necessary) so the first two options would lead to postponing Stage2 until a year or less, to ensure no obvious install issues.

Any comments or suggestions?

Option 1 is basically what I did. See my click here link.

I took the new ej257 and my old long block to my buddies machine shop, he rebuilt the heads and assembled the long block.

If the machine work is good, you don't need to worry about a warranty. The ej257 will be fine. The machine shop will stand behind there work.

Will shop one pull the engine and take it to the machine shop, let the shop do what my buddies shop did and then re-install the engine and do the start up and first oil changes.

Have the tuner load a base map into the ecu for the new start up, or arrange to have him there for the start up.

My ej257 has been at 21psi since day one, that was 54,000 miles ago.

In theory I could do it myself, but I work full time and have other responsibilities and projects. I'd rather not tie up my garage for months on end and go without the most practical vehicle in the family. And I am in the fortunate position of not needing to go the absolute cheapest way possible.

I'd rather go straight to Stage2 rather than postpone, then spend more money to install UP and DP. But if I get a warranty (option 1 or2), it might be prudent to ensure the motor breaks in ok before voiding that warranty. I have the parts, including AP, so could do it myself when ready, or more likely pay a shop to do it.

In theory I could do it myself, but I work full time and have other responsibilities and projects. I'd rather not tie up my garage for months on end and go without the most practical vehicle in the family. And I am in the fortunate position of not needing to go the absolute cheapest way possible.

 

I'd rather go straight to Stage2 rather than postpone, then spend more money to install UP and DP. But if I get a warranty (option 1 or2), it might be prudent to ensure the motor breaks in ok before voiding that warranty. I have the parts, including AP, so could do it myself when ready, or more likely pay a shop to do it.

I wouldnt mod until your warranty ends (which ever one you take)