KW coilovers install questions... top hats

I am about to install the KW coilovers on my wagon.

 

Is rear rubber spring seat supposed to be used? It looks like I could cram it between the supplied metal seat and rear mount (top hat)... but it looks awkard. It also looks awkard if top hat alone is used....

 

Here is link to praedet's pic where he did not use the rubber seat:

 

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e257/praedet/Suspension/InstallRearCoil-overReadytoGo.jpg

 

Here is link to DMS coilover install where the rubber seat is used:

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44478

attaching pics just in case

I followed what praedet's install. I left the rubber seats off(I kepted them just in case. ). I guess Paul would know best. I have not had any problems so far.

ok, never mind... RTFM. My paper manual was missing the page with rear coilover picutre, but I found it online:

 

http://www.kw-gmbh.de/kw_upload/Einbau/eah68645006.pdf

 

NO RUBBER SEAT! Yay.

By the way, since we are talking about top hats I have also dillema which front top hats to use. Have both USDM and JDM top hats. Both supposedly work with KWs, however the manual shows JDM ones in the picture.

 

With JDM, the rod protrudes making use of dust caps impossible.

 

With USDM, if the spacer is used (the spacer btw, is identical to the spacer on stock USDM suspension, it is NOT used on JDM suspensions), the dust cap can be used.

 

JDM top hats feels much more solid (is also noticeably heavier) - the bearing is really beefy compared to wimpy bearing in the USDM top hat.

 

I am just wondering if USDM top hat will be softer (thus more comfy ride) at the expense of less sharp turn-in.

 

This is an unique dillema, as this is the only suspension I know of that can be used with either style of top hats....

Unclemat,

If it works with both tophats (spacer min/out), is there a height difference, and with which one car will sit higher?

 

I'm considering KW's, but don't like max. height adjustment giving you only two fingers gap.

 

BobR

I'm not Unclemat, but the limiting factor for your ride height is going to be the rear, not the front. You can setup the car to be higher, but it will be outside the recommended range from KW. While it is probably ok to run higher than the max recommended height, it does put the product outside of it's designed use.

Assembled them today, bit of a pain.

 

Decided to use USDM top hats, their advantage being that dust caps on the top hats can be used. On JDM top hats they won't fit (the rod protrudes too far out).

 

By the way I got puzzled by these removable collars on the piston. In fact one was missing (or I lost it. ). I removed them as otherwise the top hat would not seat properly.

 

Boost, I think you mentioned they are to be removed when used with USDM top hats but retained with JDM ones. This is bit of a puzzle, because I don't see how JDM one would fit with it either. I guess I should have taken some pics along the way, would be easier to show than to describe.... the stuff goes like this (from top to bottom)

 

nut

top hat

spacer

top spring seat (perch)

collar

bump stop w/boot

platic spacer

strut

 

 

If both the collar and the spacer were retained, the top hat would not seat properly. It would if the spacer was eliminated, but then then USDM top hat calls for the spacer (it's present on the stock struts). OTOH, I think the spacer is not need for the JDM top hat (not used on stock JDM suspension) due to the large bearing on the JDM top hats.

 

In other words I think:

 

spacer + no collar for USDM top hat

no spacer + collar for JDM top hat

 

By the way, USDM top hat is pita, because the top opening is very narrow and a 19mm offset wrench would not fit (KWs come with 19mm nuts). Had to use 17mm nuts, since 17mm offset fits.

 

Finally, one need to be careful with the perch locking screws... cross threaded one of the perches, dang....

Unclemat,

If it works with both tophats (spacer min/out), is there a height difference, and with which one car will sit higher?

 

I'm considering KW's, but don't like max. height adjustment giving you only two fingers gap.

 

BobR

 

I am not sure. I think it would seat the same, if different ,the difference would be negligible. However, according to Jedi Pimp it will seat higher with JDM top hats.

Are you referring to the black collar that is in my pictures? I though we retained that...

 

I thought it was the bumpstop assembly...

 

I agree the top nuts are a pita, I used an impact gun on the lowest setting with a 40 ft-lb torque bar...

Are you referring to the black collar that is in my pictures? I though we retained that...

 

No, I am talking about small metal collar, kinda looks like a washer than goes over the rod. It's outside diameter is exactly like the rod diameter. It's shiny silver like the rod.

I messed up the first time I put my fronts together I left on the collar and did not use the factory domed washer. I thought the wheel felt alittle heavy. The instuction link you posted was not the same picture as the instructions. I went back and took off the collar and added the fatory domed washer under the top hat and now it is much nicer and streer feels better. It smooth out the ride more. Lightyears better then my h-tech/stock strut combo. I have my car set at 1/4 below max height all the way around and have my damper set at 12 clicks from hard in the front and 14 clicks at the rear. It works well with my 19's and give me a finger space at each wheel.

Yup, that's what I have done: removed collar, kept the spacer (domed washer) and used USDM top hats.

 

I just finished installing the fronts... now time for the rears...

More questions:

With recommended height setting, is lower control arm still on enough angle

to enable negative camber for full compression stroke - or KW var2 doesn't

affect geometry at all?

 

I'm much more concerned with proper functioning than looks.

 

 

BobR

see you had a bad day as well

 

oh nooz no bilsteins for you?

 

you want to sell jdm top hats b4 i order from paul at apexjapan? yes i cracked a stud

 

can pay you at meat

see you had a bad day as well

 

oh nooz no bilsteins for you?

 

you want to sell jdm top hats b4 i order from paul at apexjapan? yes i cracked a stud

 

can pay you at meat

 

You can buy the top hat from any US dealer. Should cost ~$50. It's the same part as on USDM SpecB.

 

EDIT: I can help you... pming

You can buy the top hat from any US dealer. Should cost ~$50. It's the same part as on USDM SpecB.

 

EDIT: I can help you... pming

 

oh sweet. will do then. figured id have to get from japan. thanks!

Yup, that's what I have done: removed collar, kept the spacer (domed washer) and used USDM top hats.

 

I just finished installing the fronts... now time for the rears...

 

That is what I've always done with the KW's I've installed. I've honestly never installed them on a car with JDM top hat, so I was just assuming that the collar was there for the supposedly thicker JDM top hats.

That is what I've always done with the KW's I've installed. I've honestly never installed them on a car with JDM top hat, so I was just assuming that the collar was there for the supposedly thicker JDM top hats.

 

JDM top hat is not thicker, actually it's thinner overall, plus the bearing has recess for nut, so it's even more thinner. That's the reason you cannot mount Bilsteins/Tokicos/etc to USDM top hats - the rod is too short for thick USDM bearing.

 

As I said, I think the spacer is not to be used with JDM top hats, since the bearing on JDM top hat is big (wide). That's why collar is to be used. OTOH, I think the spacer would not hurt anything if used with JDM top hat.

 

One thing for sure - both collar and spacer cannot be used, since only the threaded portion of the rod would extended past all the attachments, making mounting top hat insecure.

 

By the way, KW's instructions SUCK. Almost nil useful information there.

by the way I thought some pics of top hats could be useful for future generations....

 

JDM top hat pics

USDM top hat

JDM & USDM compared

Btw, initial test drive indicates that KWs are significatly softer on initial bump than JDM SpecB Rev.C Bilsteins, probably on par or softer than USDM SpecB Bilsteins.

 

I think this should be attributed to the USDM top hat which is much much softer than JDM. After lowering the car after install I was surprised how much the top hat was pushed up - the whole thing flexes. Never noticed that with JDM top hat.

 

Also, the USDM top hats I bought were... made in Poland. As far as I am concerned that does not inspire confidence

I thought the instruction sucked also.

agree!