Alignment - Camber Adjustment Bolts

Guys,

 

I normally have the car aligned at the Subaru dealer but this time took it instead to a local and very convenient Goodyear shop. I just spoke with the manager who said the rear camber is not adjustable (though I know this can be used to do that). He suggested installing camber adjustment bolts in the front which would allow him to set the front more precisely. I asked him what Subaru would do and he said they would not install bolts and would set it close enough that it would be within "spec". I asked him if this would make a difference with the car's tendency to drift to the right and he said that it would make a difference and would track straighter for a longer time - but would eventually drift right. He explained that all cars are manufactured to do that to some extent for safety purposes. He also stated the the new bolts would prevent the car from being easily jarred out of alignment when hitting ruts.

 

Generally true?

 

Zenonk's 8-31-05 post in this thread suggests getting camber bolts to get as close to his "suggested" specs as possible if unable to do so with the existing bolts.

 

So, I told them to install the new bolts.

 

Good move or bad (total cost is around $100 for the bolts and install)?

 

BTW, before specs:

Camber: LF -1.1

RF -0.6

LR -1.0

RR -0.5

 

He suggested he'd be able to set front camber and toe all around to close to zero.

 

BTW, I have Ion springs, JDM RSB, and am running Goodyear F1 GSD3s at 38F/36R.

 

As always - thanks.

Several members, myself included, have been able to get front camber within specs w/ Ion springs installed and factory camber bolts. I would say you don't need the bolts, but it sounds like they're in already. As far as a fair price, I've got no idea there.

 

I would also add that you will probably want about 1 degree of negative camber up front, not 0.

Several members, myself included, have been able to get front camber within specs w/ Ion springs installed and factory camber bolts. I would say you don't need the bolts, but it sounds like they're in already. As far as a fair price, I've got no idea there.

 

I would also add that you will probably want about 1 degree of negative camber up front, not 0.

 

 

+1 You shouldn't need additional camber bolts (top and bottom) to get the alingnment within specs.

PM me and I'll give you the explanation of it all.

My fronts w/ iON's and stock bolts are set at -0.4. Perfect for me.

PM me and I'll give you the explanation of it all.

 

pm'ed. Thanks.

+1 don't need camberbolts.

 

You probably want -0.5 to -1.o of camber up front.

Yeah, you deffinetly want more then 0 camber up front. Atleast -.5. I am going to max my front out to whatever I can on the stock hardware this week. Im wearing my T1-S's down way to quick, it needs more negative camber.

I was led to believe that the new bolts would allow for a more precise setting. I'm assuming most of you assume not?

It doesn't allow for more precise settings, it allows for greater range/flexability. Say you wanted -2.0 degrees of camber, the stock bolts couldn't do that. Or if you lower your car a lot, that tends to increase camber. So say the stock bolts could only get -1.0 degrees, and you wanted -.5, you would need camber bolts to help get you that last .5 degrees. I had them on my WRX, and thats how I got my -1.5 degrees of camber up front.

Sorry - I confused precision with range/flexibility - BUT - they do have some value or benefit along the lines of what was explained then.

 

I just wanted to confirm the accuracy of what I was told (so I don't feel like I was taken to the cleaners - don't mind spending money for greater range or flexibility).

the bolts are eccentric or cam based.. the larger the lobe, the more of that lobe that will help you get more camber out of the car... stock bolts only give you the range of +1 to -1 degree while aftermarket bolt allow something like +2 to -2 degrees.

 

Accuracy will come from the person who is actually sitting there at the alignment machine turning that bolt to the right position and then tightening the nut.

"He also stated the the new bolts would prevent the car from being easily jarred out of alignment when hitting ruts."

 

Camber bolts won't do anything to help that, they don't prevent it from "un-aligning" any quicker either. They just allow for more flexability. So your service manager wasn't exactly telling you the truth, you probably didn't need them, unless it was impossible to the numbers you wanted.

Thanks for the help guys. Here is how it all ended:

 

I went in and talked with the mechanic as the guy behind the register listened and waited patiently for my money. I explained that I had been told by many owners of this car that a camber adjustment well within specs was achieveable with the stock bolts and that I did not understand why I was sold a new set of bolts (for $35) and labor to install them on top of that (for another $68). I explained that the car had been aligned at several other shops previously, including Subaru, and I had never been told I needed bolts. I acknowledged that I had given him the go-ahead to install the bolts, but had regretted it after learning that they were not necessary.

 

The mechanic's response? "Look at how good the specs are now as compared to when you brought it in (i.e. before/after).

 

My response? "I believe you could have done as well with the stock bolts; no one else has required new bolts to align the car"

 

The mechanic's response? "We don't know how well they aligned your car or even if they aligned your car"

 

My response? "Are you suggesting that other shops, including Subaru, charged me and did not align the car, or aligned it out of spec"?

 

The mechanic's response? (changing topic) "Do you know how long it would have taken us to align your car with the stock bolts? It would have taken hours and we would have had to charge you by the hour. So, it was much cheaper for you to buy the bolts"

 

My response? "Who charges per hour for an alignment? Shops have a set fee. Are you telling me that you charged me for new bolts because they allow you to perform the alignment more quickly"?

 

Interrupting from behind the counter, the man awaiting my money says "Lou, I'll take it from here". "Sir", he says, "We don't want anyone to regret their service here; I am going to only charge you for the alignment; if after driving the car you feel the bolts were a good decision, you can come back and pay me for them at a later time"

 

My response? "Thanks, here's my card".

 

After paying and receiving my receipt, he reached out and shook my hand. I asked him his name. It was the owner.

 

My goal - but all you guys get assists. Thanks again.

 

For the record:

 

Before: LF -1.1

RF -0.6

LR -1.0

RR -0.5

 

Front Total toe -0.09

Front Cross Camber -0.5

Front Cross Caster 0.5

Rear Total toe 0.39

 

 

After: LF 0.1

RF -0.0

LR -1.1

RR -0.6

 

Front Total Toe -0.00

Front Cross Camber 0.1

Front Cross Caster 0.5

Rear Total Toe -0.06

 

The specs he used suggested toe: 0 front and rear; camber: -0.15 front and -0.40 rear

it's very possible that some shops just nudge here and there, but the alignment is not always true.. afterall, it's just numbers on a piece of paper for all you know.

 

Do you know if they did this alignment on a Hunter machine? Because you can be pretty much dead on with the toe at being 0.00 all across the board.. but if this was done with old school tools, eh, can't complain..

 

well, you got what you wanted with Zero camber up front.. or near that.. which is fine for everyday driving on a straight highway.

Your alignment will be good.

 

FWIW my car was done on some real fancy machine, and my numbers were better then yours.

 

Camber:

 

LR = -1.00

RR = -1.10

LF = -0.60

LR = -0.60

 

Toe was 0.00 for front and rear

 

The machine actually went into the thousanths but I didn't write down those numbers.

 

Glad you only paid for an alignment.

FWIW, I've put about 350 miles on the car since the alignment and it tracks really well. So well in fact that I feel guilty not paying for the bolts. But, I can live with guilt

I had my alignment Saturday, all I could manage was -.6 up front Ended up hurting me at the Auto-X Sunday. My T1-S's are dead now, no more tread on the outside part of the tire. Time to start looking for new tires and camberbolts, need atleast -1.5 camber up front. The car did handle pretty well though overall, those swaybars deffinetly helped since the last time I ran. Car was much flater and a lot less roll, evident through the video I took.

I had my alignment Saturday, all I could manage was -.6 up front Ended up hurting me at the Auto-X Sunday. My T1-S's are dead now, no more tread on the outside part of the tire. Time to start looking for new tires and camberbolts, need atleast -1.5 camber up front. The car did handle pretty well though overall, those swaybars deffinetly helped since the last time I ran. Car was much flater and a lot less roll, evident through the video I took.

 

What springs do you have? Are you any lower.

 

With my 30 mm drop in the front I could get -.5 to -1.5 with the stock bolts.

I had my alignment Saturday, all I could manage was -.6 up front Ended up hurting me at the Auto-X Sunday. My T1-S's are dead now, no more tread on the outside part of the tire. Time to start looking for new tires and camberbolts, need atleast -1.5 camber up front. The car did handle pretty well though overall, those swaybars deffinetly helped since the last time I ran. Car was much flater and a lot less roll, evident through the video I took.

 

 

yea, the slaloms will do that do that to the tires, i spent a lot of time spinning that inside wheel as well, and worn down my Azenis quite a bit. Results are up for that event btw on solo.wdcr-scca.org

emlevins, did you go to the Sonoco station on 8th street? my friend Luke's dad owns that place, and he said a white GT came in for a camber adjustment because the car was lowered....was that your car or is someone else rolling around with a white LGT in Erie that i dont know about??

 

He's got an Impreza and he complimented your car, being that he is a Subaru brother-in-arms...