Need opinions, Engine noise.

EJ251 N/A Engine.

 

Use only 89+ Octane Gas since new

Mobil One 5w30 since 3000k changed ever 3-5k miles there after. 58k miles 90% highway. Spirited Driving, but never abused.

 

My noise.. I wish I could record it for you all to hear.

It basically sounds like a 'click-click-click-click-click'' sound. very hard to hear, sorta sounds like an extra loud injector. It only does this when the car is undergeared.

IE.. I'm rolling down a hill and give it just enough gas to rev the motor without it actually increasing my speed.. (does that make any sense at all?) It ONLY does it while in gear. (4EAT) If I park it I can rev to red line and not hear it. If I'm coasting and stick it in Nuetral, again, the sound completely goes away. When I accelerate my car makes the most god awful WHIIIIIIIIIIISSSSHHHHing sound while under hard excell..the clicky sound is there under it too.. again it's kinda hard to hear. Even harder to describe.

 

Anyways, I went to the dealer and did a ride along with the Service Manger in the car. He heard it and said "that doesn't sound like anything I've ever heard, we'll check it out" I drop it off, and The SM and the Mechanic do a ride

and call me back.. "Your car is done". I get there and the SM tells me that the noise is "normal" Subaru Engine noise. I go speak with the Mechanic in the garage and he reiterates this to me. He also says that the noise might be a "by product of using gas thats not as good as you think it is" although he never says that the injectors are dirty, or fouled etc. He assures me that these noises I hear are "normal" and thats that. The kindly waive my $77 diag fee and send me on my way.

 

Taking the Mech's hinted advice, I fill up the car with Premium Mobil gas and drop a can of Injector cleaner in her, and low and behold for the entire life of that tank, not a single odd noise.. hooray I think, the Injectors were just dirty. 5 tanks since, the noise is back in full force, and even the good gas doesn't keep it from happening, And I don't want to try another can of injector cleaner right now as I already have one on this oil change. (but getting OIL changed this weekend so..)

 

At this point I'm a little frustrated.. I don't want to take my car to teh dealer and demand they find out what the problem is because frankly, I don't have a lot of dough to toss at car repairs. My 3y 36k warranty is long up, and my drivetrain has 2k left on it. My dealer Williams of East Lansing are good guys and have treated me very well (did't get the car there) since, and even answered my questions about mods etc. I'd hate to piss them off by being prickish and making demands, simply because the next nearest dealer for me is in Detroit or Grand Rapids.. I just don't know what to do but want to be certain that my engine / valvetrane / gaskets aren't the problem or going to be one, as well as figuring out what exactly causes this noise.

 

I don't feel I've been misled, I just don't feel like they really bothered trying to find the cause of it. If that is what it's supposed to sound like (funny cause a 98 Impreza I Drove certainly DIDN'T sound like my car) fine.. I still want to know -what- makes it sound that way.

 

I also find it odd that injector cleaner cleared the issue up completely, but that it's come back so quickly.

 

I just need opinions... what would you guys do if this were your car. In my heart, I know something aint right.. in my ears.. my car sounds like total ass.. I want it corrected... but not at the ire of my mechanic..

 

Any input advice would be great.. thanks and sorry for the book.

Well I'm not sure what advise I can give. One thing that I know for sure is that Subaru engines make all kinds of strange noises but I'm used to it.

 

Aside from that I would not use anything lower than 91 in the legacy. 89 is just not good enough. That maybe the stem of your problem. Try using 91 every time and see if the noise begins to go away. It may take a few tanks. Not sure though.

 

If it persists take it to the dealer. They will have to fix it if it is broke.

The 93 N/A engine was designed to use 87 octane first of all. Using a higher octane than an engine was designed for can believe it or not lead to carbon deposits on the valves and combustion chamber. Second of all it is ridiculous to use synthetic oil and change it every three thousand miles. You can easily get 6-7500 miles out of that oil with no problem. Use 87 octane from now on to save your money and get some good fuel injector/combustion chamber cleaner to toss in and go from there.

Thanks Omen..

 

My last two tanks have been 91 and the sound has been persistent.

 

I just never feel like the 'stealership' is out for my best interest.

This worries me now because with 2k left on the factory Drivetrain warranty I sorta feel like they are just trying to get out of having to do work under warranty. Although I have no other reason to think this way I still worry. Also they aren't the Purchase dealership, so technically, they've gotten nothing from me but the cost of a few parts.

 

I guess if someone who's never dropped a dime came to my service desk talking "warranty" and "engine noise" I wouldn't very motivated to agree with their problem..especially if I was going to be picking up the tab.

 

Again however..I've no justifiable reason to think this way.. call it a gut feeling from getting screwed with another car thats engine went south.

 

I guess I'm after a second opinion, a pep rally.. someone to tell me to take my car in and demand they tell me whats wrong or else!! Maybe I should contact SOA? I'd definetly like to get a second opinion from a mechanic, but to have a suby mech do it, I'm out a day of work to do it because of travel. I don't really trust any other Mom&Pop garage to do it because 99% of the time they will find something, and often times it's 10x more than whats actually wrong.

 

As you can see.. I'm frustrated and running out of time and options..

 

arghhhhhh!!!!!

The 93 N/A engine was designed to use 87 octane first of all. Using a higher octane than an engine was designed for can believe it or not lead to carbon deposits on the valves and combustion chamber. Second of all it is ridiculous to use synthetic oil and change it every three thousand miles. You can easily get 6-7500 miles out of that oil with no problem. Use 87 octane from now on to save your money and get some good fuel injector/combustion chamber cleaner to toss in and go from there.

 

I never knew that better gas could be bad..thanks for the heads up.. I'll try it.

 

Oil.. sorry, I've had one motor blow up I won't lose another. I know I can get 6-7k from my synth, but I don't want to. I prefer to be safe, not sorry. Old habit..and it only makes it run better in the long run.

I do my oil myself, so price there isn't an object.

 

What cleaners do you recommend?

 

Thanks Pimp!

Chevron

PRO-GARD®

Clean-Up Engine Deposit Remover

 

Try that one and see if it helps

Cool thanks a bunch.

 

anyone else?

Since you've described that the condition doesn't happen when not in gear, it sounds like either pinging or maybe (longshot here) drivetrain noise where maybe a u-joint or something is slightly binding under acceleration load? Most other noises (lifters, injectors, etc.) would happen when revving engine regardless of load.

 

I don't know why it would disappear with the gas and injector cleaner and then return though. Pinging can do that if there's severe build-up I think. I'd make sure the service dept makes some very good notes of your complaints while you're under warranty. At least you have a shot at getting it fixed when you finally diagnose it if/when the warranty expires.

Oh, and try calling Car Talk (Click'n Clack). They love questions like this. And they love Subaru.

Thanks Forestir..

 

The mechanic, when I talked to him, mentiond that bad valves would "ping" but said he didn't hear that. I've also had a car with bad valves and I can say even in my noviceness, thats not what this sound is. It's not quite that loud, but it is louder than the injectors. The noise is centralized to (what I think) is the Driver side of the engine.

 

Your suggestion of the Drivetrain components making the noise is interesting.. but the noise just seems way to tied to using the gas..I'd have to believe if it was a component of the drivetrain as you suggest it would make the noise under all driving conditions. The sound however doesn't sound like binding or scraping.. Now I'm contemplating how I can get a recording for you all to hear. Hmmm....

 

Also... forgot to mention this...

 

While at the dealer the SM had me put the car in gear hold the break and rev it. The sound appeared, although much more quietly than before. I guess I should say it never makes this noise in park.. it does, but never for longer than like a second or two.. past 2 rev's and it's gone and sounds normal again, no matter how much I rev it.

 

Thanks.. keep it comming.

Just a guess, (I am no mechanic) but did they check the knock sensor? If I am correct this is the sensor that controls pinging, knocking, etc? :s

Just a guess, (I am no mechanic) but did they check the knock sensor? If I am correct this is the sensor that controls pinging, knocking, etc? :s

 

See thats it, and it stems from my own ignorance about cars and engines. I knew of no knock sensor, so I never asked, but they never said anything about one either.

 

meh.. nother question to ask..

 

Thanks LSW!!!

Sorry I only now see that it is an 03 I was assuming that it was an 05.

Not sure why no one has mentioned it, but boxer engines naturally start making clicking noises when they 1. get older 2. are cold.

 

I'm not saying there isn't something wrong with your car, but keep that in mind.

 

My 04 Impreza TS makes that clicking noise when the temp gets just above freezing. My wife's 01 Outback Wagon makes that noise every time the car starts, but goes away when the engine warms up after 1 or 2 miles. Its the nature of the engine. Porsches and old VW bugs do it too.

Sorry I only now see that it is an 03 I was assuming that it was an 05.

 

BH is t3h R4r3

 

Yeah.. BH rules!!!

Pay tribute!!

 

Not sure why no one has mentioned it, but boxer engines naturally start making clicking noises when they 1. get older 2. are cold.

 

I'm not saying there isn't something wrong with your car, but keep that in mind.

 

My 04 Impreza TS makes that clicking noise when the temp gets just above freezing. My wife's 01 Outback Wagon makes that noise every time the car starts, but goes away when the engine warms up after 1 or 2 miles. Its the nature of the engine. Porsches and old VW bugs do it too.

 

Like a fluttering click???

 

Mine does it when warm mostly that I can tell. But it takes a while for it to show up most days. Say 10 miles or so. At highway speeds it's not evident, but perhaps road and wind noise drowns it out.

 

I also want to elaborate on what I mean by 'under power' or the common condition of when my car makes this noise. I mention it because it is 100% reproduceable when it's happening.

 

The car is moving, in gear, but there is no drive line stress, or tourqe on the drivetrain. If I lightly press the gas pedal the noise get's louder. Once the engine catches up with the drivetrain it goes away. (4EAT)

Since you mention that once the drivetrain catches up the noise seems to go away -- is it possible that the drivetrain noise covers the noise?

 

Exluding the fact that gas cleaner appears to have stopped the noise -- To me -- not hearing the sound -- it kinda sounds like a exhaust manifold leak? OR perhaps a pully noise? I used to have a vw that had a similar sound -- with similar characteristics (excepting the gas cleaner angle) and it turned out to be a slightly warped ac pully that would resonate at certain speeds to make a clicking sound.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about it -- it seems like the car is running ok. Although they annoy ne -- I just try and convince myself that older cars are gonna make noises -- just like I will always have to pay taxes and insurance.

This is a long shot but maybe you have a bad timing belt tensioner? I know there is a TSB for the 05's that the tensioner goes bad and makes a clicking noise when driving. People mistook it for bad valve or injectors, but it was actually the tensioner.

 

One of the TSB's I read recentrly on this site had it described.

 

GL

 

X

I have an 03 Outback wagon with 20k. I find the engine to be kind of noisy. Sort of a light clicking. It takes a long time to quiet down. Like 15 - 20 minutes of driving. Not the usual piston slap, though. My 99 Legacy GT with 125k sounded like a diesel at temps below 30 degrees when started, but quickly quieted down within 5 minutes. The Outback sounds much different. When purchased, the sales person told us that we would hear a 'non-destructive' engine knock. Service says that the noises are 'within normal limits'. I did read somewhere (maybe Edmunds) of someone with the same issue, and the dealer ended up replacing the #2 and #4 pistons with ones that had counterweights

Perhaps try using a different weight oil.

 

I find my 05 LGT to be almost silent using Mobil1 TSUV compared to the M1 10w-30 that came out. The 5w-30 is quite similar to the 10w-30.

Engine Noises PDF.

26 - Engine Noises.pdf

26 - Engine Noises.pdf

^ Reviewed.

 

So, I've got a strange one - one that does not fit any of the above and which I cannot isolate.

 

I'm not even sure it's coming from the engine compartment, as fan, belt, and other normal engine noises under-hood is loud enough to mask it, even at idle, when I pop the hood and look from that side....

 

Mine sounds like water slowly bubbling/gurgling, and is audible only from inside the cabin during idle.

 

The sound immediately dies when I put any load on the engine, or even if I just slightly raise from idle rpm in neutral. Does not matter if the fan or any other accessory is on or off, as a matter of fact, two bars on the fan or radio volume at even "3" would mask this gurgling noise.

 

The sound is most prominent when first coming to a stop, and typically is gone by the 30-second to 1-minute idling time mark.

 

It almost sounds like some water is trapped, somewhere, and is being slowly boiled off.

 

This first happened after last weekend, having driven both thorugh a torrential downpour as well as having iced the TMIC for my dyno-tune runs (I went through about three 4-pound bags of ice). I'm almost wondering if some water might be trapped somewhere? But shouldn't it have dried out by now?

 

Any suggestions are appreciated.

 

Coolant boiling up in the reservoir above the turbo?

 

After a hard drive, even with a 1-2 minute cool-down, if I open the hood, I can hear the coolant boiling up at the reservoir on the passenger side right next to the engine cover. I think the pressure exerted by the coolant cap isn't enough and a higher pressure cap, e.g. the Crucial one, will give a better and higher pressure seal and may get rid of that sound. Make sure to change both caps.

I'll definitley check into this, melayout.

 

Thanks, bro!

Hey Tsi.. if you look under your dash, right at the back of the center console you should see some pipes that are part of the Heating/Cooling sytem. Mine were gurgling a little to a few weeks ago.. but it wasn't constant. That could be where it's comming from. I hear this noise is pretty commin in the WRX and STi.