GS Master Cylinder Brace

Hey all,

 

I'm looking at purchasing the Grimmspeed Master Cylinder Brace for my Leggy, and was curious as to your personal experiences with it. Does it increase brake feel *noticeably* or no? Is it worth the money? Any feedback helps, both pros and cons appreciated! Thanks in advance.

I had stainless lines and good fluid before adding the brace..but I could definitely feel a difference. Stiffened the pedal up, worth the money imo

I'm looking to also do SS lines, front and rear. What fluid do you recomend me using? Thanks for the feedback!

I'm using the super blue fluid, but since you can't buy it anymore..I'm not sure. I'm sure some of the others will chime in.

The brace works. I have SS lines and Wilwood BBK and could feel noticeable improvement in pedal feel after installing the brace.

 

I've been using Amsoil Series 600 DOT 4 Racing Brake Fluid

I was curious if the Cusco brace works on a 05 LGT or does it need modification. Or is the GS one the way to go?

To the OP, try searching next time please:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168979&highlight=brace

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164130&highlight=brace

 

As far as brake fluid and ATE Super Blue, getting ATE Type 200 is the same, just minus the blue.

Noticeable difference in pedal feel. Not night and day, but noticeable.

They will stiffen the pedal feel. Have you done the pads first? If not then I'd do that first for the greatest improvement, followed by good fluid.

 

IMHO braces and SS lines aren't necessary unless you're going to be tracking the car, I'd save money for something else. If you're happy to splash some cash on it then certainly why not, definitely not pointless upgrades

In my defense, I searched and neither of those threads popped up, and I also was looking for experience and knowledge from others. I appreciate your input on the brake fluid, that is good to know! I purchased the brace the other day, and will post a review once I install it!

 

 

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In my defense, I searched and neither of those threads popped up, and I also was looking for experience and knowledge from others. I appreciate your input on the brake fluid, that is good to know! I purchased the brace the other day, and will post a review once I install it!

 

 

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if you really want to know if makes a difference, mount a gopro on high speed in the engine bay pointed at the master cylinder. Go do some hard braking test runs. Then add the brace. The difference you feel might be the money you spent?

 

Caveat: I don't have one and never drove a car with one installed. If you haven't upgraded the pads, you're probably wasting your money. Upgraded brake fluid only helps if you're doing repeated hard braking (track/autox/spirited driving). SS Lines are a cautionary measure related to heat and debris damaging the rubber lines. Cross-drilled/slotted rotors are pure bling. If you are concerned about how well the car is braking, perhaps, you are not braking correctly (it's not how well it "bites" in the first 1/2 inch, it's how consistent thru the entire pedal travel) /soapbox

I purchased the StopTech Street Series brake pads (front and rear) at the same time that I purchased my Grimmspeed MCB, and will be installing them together. Stainless braided lines front and rear is next on the list.

 

 

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if you really want to know if makes a difference, mount a gopro on high speed in the engine bay pointed at the master cylinder. Go do some hard braking test runs. Then add the brace. The difference you feel might be the money you spent?

 

Caveat: I don't have one and never drove a car with one installed.

Not necessary to do that. The GS MCB is immediately apparent as soon as you start the car and step on the brake the first time after it's installed, even at idle/standstill.

@Invar thanks for the input! I appreciate it!

 

 

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It's no magic bullet... ie it's not going to be night at day from what I read before. But... the stock feel was so bad, whenever I switched between the different cars I own I swear I almost run my intersection every time because the brake pedal feel was so poor. It cured it for me... but I had replaced the stock lines with stock, and put in superblue, as well as new rotors and pads probably the year before, it wasn't good enough for me, now with the MC brace it's livable

Not necessary to do that. The GS MCB is immediately apparent as soon as you start the car and step on the brake the first time after it's installed, even at idle/standstill.

 

Guess I'll have to find a local car with it installed. Can't believe it makes that much difference. This mod seems like the front strut brace mod - all bling.

It's noticeable on the first part of the downstroke of the pedal. I'm 99.9% sure it's not psychological. It's been over a year since I installed it, and I'm used to it, but I can easily loosen up the nut completely and see how it feels again for comparison purposes.

I stand corrected, it does move. :-)

 

Only tried at rest on a lift, it moved about 1/8 inch (unscientific finger test). On the road (no video), there is a really small sensation of delay on first depression of the brake pedal. Under brisk braking, there is no sensation of delay.

 

From track day experience, this tiny movement has never been a problem. Braking effort on track should go like this (using a scale of 1-10, where 1 is barely touching pedal and 10 is fully mashed) - 6,6,10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1. At level 6 braking effort, the booster movement is not noticeable.

 

I still hold that swapping oem pads will make the single biggest difference in your braking experience. Adding SS lines is more of a safety issue, though, there is some performance gain to be had by lines that don't deform under pressure. Upgraded rotors, it's a tossup (I used them to have a matched set of track pads). Before I looked at slotted/drilled rotors, I'd get brake ducts (keeping the rotors, hubs & calipers cool will have the highest impact on your track day).

 

End of day, I still call this a bling item. However, it's your car & your money. If you derive benefit from it, who am I to say you're not right?

His first problem is using Tapatalk.

Second problem is using his phone to post.

 

Juveniles these days...

 

As noted, I have the videos that show before/after movement:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3585993&postcount=63

 

I'm rather low-tech.. did it with a Nikon D80 camera and not an HD GoPro, but it's still noticeable.

 

Edit: I'm running Stoptech SS lines, ATE Superblue, stock pads/rotors. I feel a difference, especially in the lower 50-80% of the pedal stroke.

I still hold that swapping oem pads will make the single biggest difference in your braking experience. Adding SS lines is more of a safety issue, though, there is some performance gain to be had by lines that don't deform under pressure. Upgraded rotors, it's a tossup (I used them to have a matched set of track pads). Before I looked at slotted/drilled rotors, I'd get brake ducts (keeping the rotors, hubs & calipers cool will have the highest impact on your track day).

By far that has been my experience.... That and better tires of course.

 

I've always felt that for a DD, SS lines don't make a bit of difference unless your stock lines are in bad shape and the lines are expanding under pressure. If the lines are in good shape, then it won't improve the feel. I replaced mine when I had under 40K miles and didn't feel a bit of improvement. A fluid flush and better pads, however, were night and day improevment.

Yup main benefit of SS lines is heat dissipation when brakes are under a lot of use (tracking) and more protection/less expansion. If your OEM lines are in good shape they wont be deforming enough to really effect it.

 

I can see how the brace offers less play in the brake pedal which will give a more responsive feel

Yup main benefit of SS lines is heat dissipation when brakes are under a lot of use (tracking) and more protection/less expansion. If your OEM lines are in good shape they wont be deforming enough to really effect it.

 

I can see how the brace offers less play in the brake pedal which will give a more responsive feel

 

uh, no. There's no heat dissipation using ss lines. It's just a safety issue, and mildly a reduction in bulging that's possible in OEM non-ss lines.

uh, no. There's no heat dissipation using ss lines. It's just a safety issue, and mildly a reduction in bulging that's possible in OEM non-ss lines.

 

Long repetitive braking, such as one which occurs during a mountain descent, will result in a brake fluid temperature rise and may cause brake fluid vaporization. This may be a concern particularly for passenger cars equipped with aluminium calipers and with a limited air flow to the wheel brake systems.

 

A lot of braking = a lot of heat. Heating brake fluid is undesirable and can change its properties. Metal is a good heat conductor while the OEM lines are a good insulator. Heat captured by the fluid can be radiated to the environment through SS lines.

Unlikely to happen or make much of a difference but it is a minor benefit of SS.

Negativo buddy. Stainless lines still have a rubber or Teflon inside lining. The stainless braiding is just reinforcement on the outside to help further reinforce and protect the inside layer, and to reduce expansion.

 

As far as acting as a heatsink to conduct heat away from the fluid, that's simply not going to happen, at least not by any appreciable degree at all. The reason for this is because the stainless braiding doesn't make direct contact with the fluid. If you think about it even more, it doesn't even make perfect contact with the rubber/Teflon inside layer... There's actually space between the braiding and the inner layer, and as we all know, air is a terrible conductor of heat.

A lot of braking = a lot of heat. Heating brake fluid is undesirable and can change its properties. Metal is a good heat conductor while the OEM lines are a good insulator. Heat captured by the fluid can be radiated to the environment through SS lines.

Unlikely to happen or make much of a difference but it is a minor benefit of SS.

 

Quoting an unsourced wikipedia article, " braided stainless steel hoses typically consist of a Teflon® or generic PTFE (polytetrafluoroethylene) inner hose wrapped in a braid consisting of stainless steel wire". Which leads to this "The intent of braided stainless steel brake lines is to improve brake system effectiveness and longevity as compared to an equivalent system fitted with flexible rubber hoses through near-elimination of hose expansion"

 

If your brakes are overheating, it means the airflow to the brakes and away from them is insufficient to handle the load being placed on them. A long downhill where you keep the brakes on the whole time will heat the rotors & pads up. At a certain heating level, you will have exceeded the useful temperature rating and you'll get fade.

 

SS lines are such a small part of the equation, especially in relation to the mass of the brake rotor, that any possible cooling effect becomes nil.

 

Interestingly enough to be actual cause for concern, PTFE (teflon) has a melting point of 620 °F. Using Motul's RBF600 as a reference, it has a boiling point of 594 °F. With such a close tolerance, if you did boil your brake fluid while using RBF600, you might be improving your future braking efforts by replacing your brake lines.