Annoying squeaks from Koni/Epic springs setup

(This is being reposted from the Fred Bean sub-forum since I haven't gotten any response...)

 

On my '05 Legacy GT Wagon, I installed Epic springs and Konis a few months ago. The rear springs are sqeaking like crazy. At first, I thought that I needed some help in determining where the spring sleeves should be positioned on my rear Epic springs. However, I've tried multiple locations for the spring sleeve and while it makes a difference for the first 15 - 30 mins of driving, after this, the creaking always comes back.

 

The springs came with the sleeve mounted relatively high -- basically, all of the sleeve is above the painted Epic letter and part numbers.

 

It should be noted that I've had Eibachs and H&Rs on the car before with no squeaking at all. It is definitely NOT the sway bars, etc.

 

I contacted Fred Bean and they suggested contacting Epic. I heard back from Dan at Epic Springs with this:

 

The springs should not be making any noise.

What you are most likely hearing is the rear sway bar.

I would apply some grease on the bushings and see if the sound continues.

 

then when told him it isnt the rear sway bar, he suggested this:

 

The sleeves should not effect any squeaking noise. They are there just for tapping.

I would check the upper and lower springs seats if you are convinced it is from them.

 

Any input from folks who have this setup without any squeaking? I'd love to see where you have the sleeve positioned to eliminate the metal-to-metal rubbing on the springs.

 

I'm beginning to think that there is a manufacturing issue where the top several coils are spread out just a tad too far, leading to a situation where they are not solidly compressed together.

 

 

Thanks.

I run Konis/Epics for the winter and after my first time installing them I noticed a lot of loud squeaking from the rear. My suspension is pretty heavily modified and I had been running on coilovers prior to that with no sounds or problems.

 

Well guess what, it turned out to be my swaybar bushings... they were dry despite being lubed every 4 months. I think the reason it developed after the Koni/Epic install was that the worn parts of the bushing and bar had moved relative to each other.

 

So, unless you have actually tried greasing your bushings I wouldn't discount that as a possible cause.

I disconnected the rear sway bar and went to drive around. As soon as I pulled off our driveway (has one of those rounded curbs), I still heard the squeaking.

 

Tomorrow, I'm going to go to Lowes to get some rubber silicone tubing to fit the full length of the compressed portion of the spring. My money is betting that will fix the problem.

 

Anyone know the outside diameter of the steel coil used in Epic's springs?

This is VERY common with the Epics. We have seen it on almost every single set of Epics we have installed. This winter we may work on a silicone spacer to try to prevent this issue on future installs.

 

-mike

Mike, thanks. That is good to know. How many sets (roughly) have you installed?

Maybe about 10-12 sets? Some are worse than others but almost all of them come back and we grease them up, a week or 2 later they start to make noise again.

 

-mike

Oh thats a bummer, i was gonna order epic springs this month, is it the konis or the springs, Maybe rallitek springs the way to go. any complaint on other springs or just the epics that squeak.

This makes me sad--have you happened to noticed if it's coincided with production runs at all? Like seeing more squeaking now compared to when you were installing them when they were first offered?

 

Guess I should have tried to pickup one of the Eibach pro-kits from infamous a few weeks back

Maybe about 10-12 sets? Some are worse than others but almost all of them come back and we grease them up, a week or 2 later they start to make noise again.

 

-mike

 

I had Eibach Pro-Kits before (ordered from Tire Rack a few years ago). They NEVER squeaked. Too bad I got rid of them.

 

Supposedly, Epic has their legacy springs made by Eibach to the same specs as the Pro-Kits -- at least, that's what Fred Bean Parts told us.

 

I think the problem is that the top five or six turns are spaced just a tad bit too far apart, or the spring rate is a tad bit higher than the Eibachs, so that these turns don't compress far enough under static load.

 

I have a wagon, too, which is supposed to be a bit heavier (50 lbs?) in the back. I bet these springs would squeak even more in a sedan.

 

I had a set of H&R springs too. I might put the rear H&Rs back on just to regain my sanity.

 

I put a lot of miles on my GT so the noise is really annoying me.

I'm going to try re-greasing my RSB bushings tomorrow. I have Energy Suspension ones with the nipple to add grease with a gun. Would that be sufficient enough to re-grease them? Or should I take them off completely, clean and then re-grease? I remember the first time I put them on, they were very tight and when I finally got them on, a lot of the grease I applied onto the bar ended up outside of the mouth of the bushing and on my hands.

 

If that doesn't work, I might try replacing the spring seats.

 

If THAT doesn't work, I may have to swap over to Rallitek springs.

 

They are annoying and discouraging as I feel like I'm riding around an old jalopy despite the stiff ride...

How do the rallitek springs compare to the epics stiffness-wise? If I wasn't on my phone i'd try searching for it

Yeah, baby! I fixed it.

 

I found that I still had my Eibach Pro-Kit springs and I swapped them with the rear Epics. Went for a nice drive and man, the silence is great!

 

I compared the two sets of springs when I took off the rear Epics.

 

The overall length is about the same.

 

The Eibachs have about 1/4 less of a coil at the bottom.

 

More telling though, the gap between the top Eibach coils is about 0.26" on average. The gap between the top Epic coils is about 0.30" on average.

 

Assuming that the spring rates truly are the same, this would explain why the Epic's top coils aren't firmly compressed in static load, leading to much "squiggling" around when the rear suspension compresses and unloads.

 

Hope this makes sense to everyone.

Awesome find man. I wonder if the initial sets of epics are the same or if they got a little off track in later production batches

Lucky bashtid...

 

Did you take any pics?

 

Maybe I should cut off those last 1/4 of the coils...

Nope. The before and after on the car is exactly the same.

I meant pictures of the springs side-by-side...

 

But going by your answer, I'm assuming you didn't...

Nope, they're the same, visually, except for 1/8 less of a coil at the bottom and a picture would be hard pressed to show the difference between the 0.26" and 0.30" between the top several coils.

 

Oh, and the Eibachs are black and the Epics are silver. LOL.

I think that if you take off the springs and slide tubing over the top several coils (basically where they are supposed to compress together when the car is lowered) then you'd be OK.

I just put Epics and Koni's on my wagon (2005 Legacy GT 5MT) and there's definitely some squeaking coming from the rear. Not sure what I'm going to do about that yet....

So, I took a couple hours to re-grease my rear sway bar bushings today. They are the black ones from Energy Suspension with the zerk nipples. I took them off completely, soaked them in Poorboy's degreaser, scrubbed the old grease off, regreased with Mobil 1 synthetic grease (very generously, I might add), reinstalled and VOILA! No noise!

 

 

 

...for a few minutes, that is I took it around for a spin, radio off, and it was dead quiet the first couple blocks and then :squeak: D'oh! And it only got louder the longer I drove over bumps. :sigh:

 

And FWIW, the car was on ramps when I re-greased the bushings.

Damn, I've been had this problem and its f*cking annoying. If I knew these springs squeaked and creaked like a bitch, I would've gone with Ralliteks.

We are ramping up our efforts to get an isolator out. I am going to have Frank make a prototype this week and hopefully get it to our fabricator next week.

 

We'll keep you guys posted.

 

-mike

 

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AIM: AZP Installs | E-mail: paisan@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Dealer

"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

We are ramping up our efforts to get an isolator out. I am going to have Frank make a prototype this week and hopefully get it to our fabricator next week.

 

We'll keep you guys posted.

 

-mike

 

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg

AIM: AZP Installs | E-mail: paisan@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Dealer

"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

 

Sweet! If you need any test fitters, let me know!

Creaking here too up/down driveways and speed bumps. Epic/koni setup. Sound only comes from the rear. I've had this setup on for at least 10k miles now. I'd be interested in a fix of sorts.

We are ramping up our efforts to get an isolator out. I am going to have Frank make a prototype this week and hopefully get it to our fabricator next week.

 

We'll keep you guys posted.

 

-mike

 

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg

AIM: AZP Installs | E-mail: paisan@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Dealer

"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

 

if you need a second car, let me know as well! Hehe.