Had an alignment, check my results?

Hey all,

Recently had an alignment done after getting my GroupN LCA bushings installed. It was also the first alignment I had since doing Koni/Eibachs. Seems the numbers are all within spec (except caster) to me especially for a "standard" alignment. This is just a "daily driver" so I think stock spec is good?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13144052/alignment_results_042415.pdf

Results are in a PDF above.. but here is an image of most of the results.

OK, first things first. when you get an alignment, you need to have a thrust angle of 0.0000000000000000, absolute 0. the rear of your car is not pointed perfectly straight, and that will affect everything else. I cant eve look at everything else if the TA is not zero.

Caster is fine, nothing you can really do about it since the LCA bushings are not adjustable. but they are close enough.

I find it hard to believe they couldn't get equal front camber. if -.68 is as negative as the left can go, then the right should have been made to be the same. That's just lazy.

they spent the majority off their effort on front toe. So that's why that is good.

OK, first things first. when you get an alignment, you need to have a thrust angle of 0.0000000000000000, absolute 0. the rear of your car is not pointed perfectly straight, and that will affect everything else. I cant eve look at everything else if the TA is not zero.

 

Caster is fine, nothing you can really do about it since the LCA bushings are not adjustable. but they are close enough.

 

I find it hard to believe they couldn't get equal front camber. if -.68 is as negative as the left can go, then the right should have been made to be the same. That's just lazy.

Is it possible to have 0 thrust angle after a spring install and with stock suspension parts or do you need to have some sort of "corrector" installed that allows further correction? Also why does the "spec" allow for -.5 to .5 if only 0 is correct?

Would I likely need some parts to fix the camber issue, I believe you can buy bolts from eibach that let you add more or something, but your saying they should have made them match (bringing the -.92 to match the -.68) which should be doable with the stock parts?

As you can see, the time/date on the PDF shows almost 4pm on a Friday.. so im guessing they just gave up as they got closer to closing time. They also failed at bringing my steering wheel back to dead center.. its ever so slightly to the left.

whitetiger, thanks for the info!

 

Is it possible to have 0 thrust angle after a spring install and with stock suspension parts or do you need to have some sort of "corrector" installed that allows further correction? Also why does the "spec" allow for -.5 to .5 if only 0 is correct?]

Yes. a 0 TA just means the toe is equal on both sides. your rear toe is negative on one side and positive on the other. that means the center driving line for the rear is off the center of the car. This will affect how all the other angles will behave. All they had to do was bring one side over to match the other but they just went for "green". That's lazy. "Spec" is BS. Each side may have a rage to be in spec, but there is no reason why they cant be equal to give you a 0 TA.

Would I likely need some parts to fix the camber issue, I believe you can buy bolts from eibach that let you add more or something, but your saying they should have made them match (bringing the -.92 to match the -.68) which should be doable with the stock parts?

Because this is a daily driver, im not as concerned about specific camber measurements. They just need to get both side equal. the stock bolts can do that just fine. Again they were lazy here and just went for green.

As you can see, the time/date on the PDF shows almost 4pm on a Friday.. so im guessing they just gave up as they got closer to closing time. They also failed at bringing my steering wheel back to dead center.. its ever so slightly to the left.

Well that is just crap, and likely due to the TA you have, or them not centering the wheel properly. or even the unequal camber you have.

whitetiger, thanks for the info!

anytime;)

Yes. a 0 TA just means the toe is equal on both sides. your rear toe is negative on one side and positive on the other. that means the center driving line for the rear is off the center of the car. This will affect how all the other angles will behave. All they had to do was bring one side over to match the other but they just went for "green". That's lazy. "Spec" is BS. Each side may have a rage to be in spec, but there is no reason why they cant be equal to give you a 0 TA.

 

 

 

Because this is a daily driver, im not as concerned about specific camber measurements. They just need to get both side equal. the stock bolts can do that just fine. Again they were lazy here and just went for green.

 

 

 

Well that is just crap, and likely due to the TA you have, or them not centering the wheel properly. or even the unequal camber you have.

 

 

 

anytime;)

Understood! Thanks again.. I just sent them an email about the results, see if they want to correct them or not. I paid 95+tax for this alignment, not sure if that's reflected in the results or not

$95 sounds like a standard rate for 1hr's worth of work. its a fine price for an alignment. they just should have done a better job getting equal measurements on both sides.

Its an hour less than their normal hourly rate on labor, im sure they will come back and say "its within spec" and better than it was prior to bringing it in.

Do you think its worth having this stuff corrected? I mean, at the end of the day, is a few hundredths off of "perfect TA" or or a few tenths for matched camber, going to show up anywhere in day to day driving?

Car feels so much better driving.. not sure if its the cleaned up alignment, the group N LCA bushings or just having my car back after driving something else not sporty for a week.. but its nice!

^its the bushings. Its up to you really. you said your steering wheel is off center a hair so you are gonna be dealing with that.

Its hard to convey the value of a really go alignment with out driving it yourself. You may want to have it corrected just to see what it should be like, even if it cost you another $95.

^its the bushings. Its up to you really. you said your steering wheel is off center a hair so you are gonna be dealing with that.

 

Its hard to convey the value of a really go alignment with out driving it yourself. You may want to have it corrected just to see what it should be like, even if it cost you another $95.

My stock bushings were pretty beat up at 110k miles for sure. I also had Group N motor mounts installed at the same time (because I had to have my oil pan replaced due to a leak) and Ive read somehow that also makes the car feel better, but not sure how that's possible.

Yeah Ill wait to hear what their reply is. The matching side to side seems to be a no brainer and im not sure why (besides laziness) they wouldnt do that as standard. And it sounds like if they want to correct that, or if I get it corrected elsewhere, that might clean up the steering thing so maybe Ill get it looked at elsewhere. Or atleast bring my sheet to another shop and see if they feel confident they can get it dead on.

The matching side to side seems to be a no brainer and im not sure why (besides laziness) they wouldnt do that as standard.

THIS.

we often get preoccupied with how much toe or camber we should run, but having it equal from side to side is really all that matters and it is no different whether it be a daily driver or a race car. you want the car balanced and centered.

They are saying they did everything they could to match the numbers and get them within spec.. blaming a possible bent piece of suspension (even though they didnt notice anything obvious).

=\

good discussion. if you did have, say, the anti-lift kit from whiteline which allows for caster adjustment, and were, say, going in for an alignment tomorrow, would you shoot for a specific number regarding caster that you could request?

Do max equal caster. So if one side can get more caster than the other, bring that side down to match the other side's max. these cars need as much caster as possible.

After reading this, I want my alignment redone. My toe angles for front and rear are all 0.01 degrees. I had it done at firestone with Lifetime alignment. So, I guess I'll be visiting a different firestone to do another alignment.

Individual toe angles at 0.01 is fine as long as both sides are equal, especially in the rear to have a thrust angle of 0.00000000. Remember, total toe in the rear is different than thrust angle.

Don't want to thread jack, but I don't think starting new thread is reasonable. My steering wheel is still off as it is a little rotated to the right...but here's mine whitetiger

This is after I have my Koni and Legacy GT stuff installed.

Parts installed:

-F LCA w/ white bushings

-R UCA with whiteline bushings

-Legacy GT struts with Koni inserts

http://i.imgur.com/jbTx7PA.jpg

right, so you have a thrust angle in the rear and unequal toe in the front, both will contribute to an off-center wheel. the unequal camber in the rear can also affect track as well as the tech just not centering the wheel during the front toe adjustment. if you have rear camber bushings as you say you do, there is no reason why they couldn't get your rear camber equal.

if your get an alignment and your wheel is not straight when you drive straight, that's a clear sign that something is wrong.

I would not be happy with it these results.

I recently had my wagon aligned and after seeing the results, made them redo it. I don't have the sheet handy but they took it on their own to set the car up to naturally pull left, "because the roads angle to the right". There were several degrees of camber differiental between front wheels and in the rear the toe's were tenths of a degree off.

I was:icon_mad:.

FYI, my wagon has been upgraded with every whiteline bushing/ W.A.L.K. / control linkage available. Also has all of the Speb B aluminum bits and GT Spec rear links. There is absolutely no reason for them to have been that bad.

Moral of the story, specify what you want before they do it, and stick around while it's on the rack if you can. A lot of shops will pull you in first thing in the morning if you get they open.